Contumacious
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eduardo89
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So you only support abortion make babies, but think it should be illegal to abort female babies?
That's a very strange position to take.
Why should it be illegal to abort female babies but legal to abort male babies?
Christian Liberty
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Why should rape be an exception there? Even disregarding the issues with consent, why couldn't a woman who was raped get the abortion earlier than that point, if that's really when you believe human life should be protected?
Who cares?
If people complain about public polls so much, why don't the mods simply do away with the option of making the polls public?
emazur
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I was tempted for a moment to choose that but had to consider the "informed consent" side of things. There are laws against things like child pornography, children drinking alcohol, or children signing contracts b/c "we" (as in most people and I think that includes most libertarians) think you need to be old enough to understand the ramifications of your actions before acting on your own. I think having an abortion can be put into the category of something a 13 year old isn't really prepared to understand, so I'm OK with saying minors can have abortions but require the consent of parents/guardians. But it's not like I'm eager to use government force against the 13 year old who decides to have one anyway or the doctor who performs it. So I'm thinking that if the underage girl can clearly demonstrate she understands the ramifications (no, I don't feel like writing up such criteria), she can decide to have an abortion on her own. But yes, I'm putting some restrictions here
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Matthew5
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"..in case of the life of the mother" might be misleading. My understanding is that this is really a misnomer of what threatens the mother. Most life-threatening situations involve the embryo being outside or improperly planted in the uterus and therefore have no chance at development anyhow. Seems to be the rape/incest exemption would be the only next logical step after no exceptions.
WhistlinDave
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Well I would hope she would make that decision before the baby is old enough to be more than a non-sentient collection of cells and tissues. But believe it or not, there are many cases of women not even realizing they are pregnant for several months, and in a few rare cases, even right up to the point where her water breaks. (In some cases they can even continue to menstruate a little bit; enough to not realize they are pregnant.)
If someone didn't even know she was pregnant until four months later, or six months later, and the baby is the child of her rapist, and now she feels she has a monstrosity living inside her that she did not plan for, did not consent to, does not want, and feels she could never love or care for, I am simply not comfortable imposing my own moral standard upon her in that situation and deem to tell her what is right and wrong. I can't even begin to imagine what that would be like.
Besides that though, maybe someone changes her mind later? Maybe at first she is trying hard to be forgiving, and really wants to see the baby through to either raise herself or give away for adoption, and then a month or two or three later, as the criminal case proceeds, and as she has more time to reflect, maybe she changes her mind. Now she just wants "it" out of her. I would hope she would make the decision and stick to it, before the baby has any awareness, but if she doesn't, who am I to tell her what to do? I have no idea what it's like to be raped nor to be pregnant with the baby of a monster.
And this reminds me: I forgot to mention one of my strongest beliefs on the topic of abortion. And that is, we men can discuss it all we want but I don't think people like us, who do not possess a uterus, should actually get a vote on the matter. (I mean if it was up for a vote.) It isn't something any of us will personally ever have to make the choice to do or not do. At best I can recommend what I think is right. But I don't think I'm in a position to dictate to anyone.
Matthew5
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Don't drink the feminist kool-aid, Dave.
WhistlinDave
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I don't know how many there are, but human nature dictates surely there must be some people who would choose not to participate in a poll on a controversial subject if they knew everyone could see their answer and then might ask or demand to know why they voted the way they did. I don't personally have a problem with public polls; everyone is free to vote how they want, or not vote at all. I simply wouldn't use one myself if I wanted to get the largest response possible on a topic that people tend to argue over. (That's all I was trying to say earlier.)
Carlybee
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What if all men had to get vasectomies? Would solve the abortion problem. That's about how I feel about government being involved in the issue. Put them in charge of wombs and someday they will also be in charge of testicles.
Other than that, I choose the option you don't have listed: None of your business
Other than that, I choose the option you don't have listed: None of your business
WhistlinDave
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LOL I don't think that's a feminist position; I just don't think I'm inherently qualified to decide anything on the topic.
WhistlinDave
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Why? Carlybee beat me to it, but do you think women should be allowed a vote on what age all males are required to get vasectomies at? Or on a law outlawing vasectomies? I don't want them telling me what I'm allowed to do with my dick and balls any more than I think I'm qualified to dictate to them what they're allowed to do with their equipment. I have never been in that position in this lifetime and never will. So... How is that bullshit?
Origanalist
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Even if it's your child?
eduardo89
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How is a vasectomy at all comparable to murdering an unborn child?
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WhistlinDave
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Well now, that's kind of another topic entirely. In the event abortion is legal (which it currently is), I do think the father should have some say in the decision.
But I wasn't talking about individual instances; I was talking about the subject of legality or illegality of it. Which is why I didn't really "go there" in my mind. (Well that and the fact that I had a vasectomy so many years ago I don't even think in those terms any more.)
Matthew5
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That's what they want you to believe. But it takes a male to create that child in the womb of the woman, and that automatically gives men a seat at the table.
A fair point. But, say you have a bottle and I fill it with water... is the water yours or mine?
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