What does "Intelligent Design" even mean?

[Theocrat]

Dangerous Dogma

So your telling me that our respective views of morality are subject to the signals of neurons from our biological brain?

Empathy, neurons! We see others' pain and instinctively help them.

Yes.

Everything we think and do is subject to the signals of the neurons from our biological brain. Were you under the impression there was something else?

yes.

Your mind is nothing but electrical signals moving around in your brain

Unbelievable. So, what's wrong with the neocons and liberals who act and make policy based on the neurons in their brains which they're subjected to? How can you force your morality (which is only based on neurons in your brain) by telling those "fanatical fundamentalists" they're wrong for condemning abortion, homosexuality, and pornography if they are only acting subject to the neurons of their brains which interpret their own morality? I guess President Bush is only doing what he feels is best for our nation in his unconstitutional policies because of those neurons in his brain which interpret his own morality of what's best for the world. I guess, too, you all don't believe in "free will" and human responsibility because people only act based on the way the neurons act in their brains.

You guys disgust me. Truly.

 

[Truth Warrior]

The universe is under no compulsion nor constraint to conform, comply nor be bound by the homo sapiens species' scientific method or logic. No moreso than it was constrained nor bound by the Neanderthal's thinking.

To know that it is, is only just supreme species arrogance.

 

[Minestra di pomodoro]

Unbelievable. So, what's wrong with the neocons and liberals who act and make policy based on the neurons in their brains which they're
subjected to?

Nothing is wrong with them.

How can you force your morality (which is only based on neurons in your brain) by telling those "fanatical fundamentalists" they're wrong for condemning abortion, homosexuality, and pornography if they are only acting subject to the neurons of their brains which interpret their own morality?

That doesn't make what they do right, that just explains it.

I guess President Bush is only doing what he feels is best for our nation in his unconstitutional policies because of those neurons in his brain which interpret his own morality of what's best for the world.

That's one explanation.

I guess, too, you all don't believe in "free will" and human responsibility because people only act based on the way the neurons act in their brains.

Correct! All we do is respond to external stimuli, and unconscious decisions are made for us before we know them. This is necessary because of the environment we evolved in, where we needed to respond to predators before we could make those decisions.

 

[Mesogen]

What is an alternative to a physical mind?

I'm curious to know what would be proposed as an alternative to a physical mind. If one's mind is not the result of electrochemical signals, etc. in the brain, then what is it?

What is doing the deciding, thinking, remembering, and reacting?

I'm curious what the alternative is.



On another note, I thought this experiment was damned interesting when it first came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#Neuroscience

Libet found that the unconscious brain activity leading up to the conscious decision by the subject to flick his or her wrist began approximately half a second before the subject consciously felt that she had decided to move. Libet's findings suggest that decisions made by a subject are first being made on a subconscious level and only afterward being translated into a "conscious decision", and that the subject's belief that it occurred at the behest of her will was only due to her retrospective perspective on the event. The interpretation of these findings has been criticized by Daniel Dennett, who argues that people will have to shift their attention from their intention to the clock, and that this introduces temporal mismatches between the felt experience of will and the perceived position of the clock hand. Consistent with this argument, subsequent studies have shown that the exact numerical value varies depending on attention. Despite the differences in the exact numerical value, however, the main finding has held.

 

[Kludge]

STOP GOING ON-TOPIC! DAMN YOU ALL (Unless you're Christian or Jew, in which case that'd be appallingly offensive. So, if you are a Christian or a Jew, I retract my damnation of you and instead would like to "darn you", so to speak.)!

 

[Hiki]

I'm curious to know what would be proposed as an alternative to a physical mind. If one's mind is not the result of electrochemical signals, etc. in the brain, then what is it?

What is doing the deciding, thinking, remembering, and reacting?

I'm curious what the alternative is.



On another note, I thought this experiment was damned interesting when it first came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#Neuroscience

I myself believe that there is something more to our mind than electrochemical signals. I like to call it a "higher consciousness" lacking a better term. I think the philosophical term for my "belief" is called an emergent materialist. But I am an atheist.

 

[Mesogen]

I myself believe that there is something more to our mind than electrochemical signals. I like to call it a "higher consciousness" lacking a better term. I think the philosophical term for my "belief" is called an emergent materialist. But I am an atheist.

But what IS it? Please describe it (or what it might be).

 

[Truth Warrior]

Brain ( physical ) is IN the body ( physical ), mind is NOT. It's metaphysical, and communicates with brain. Or so the "untestable scientific theory" goes.

 

[torchbearer]

you know this debate will never end. it is time wasted.

Ok, I'm starting a betting pool.
How many post will this thread garner before it hits the basement.

I say 1525 post.

 

[Mesogen]

Brain ( physical ) is IN the body ( physical ), mind is NOT. It's metaphysical, and communicates with brain. Or so the "untestable scientific theory" goes.

So the mind is somewhere else besides within the brain?

Brain damage is usually accompanied by mind damage, so where is the mind if not in the brain? From where does it communicate with the brain?

Are you saying that the mind is somewhere outside this universe and is communicating with the brain, so when the brain is damaged, that the communications are interrupted?

When a person is born mentally retarded, is there mind abnormal or their brain?

Is there a Bible verse or two that might explain where this incorporeal mind is and how it communicates with the corporeal brain?

 

[Truth Warrior]

So the mind is somewhere else besides within the brain?

Brain damage is usually accompanied by mind damage, so where is the mind if not in the brain? From where does it communicate with the brain?

Are you saying that the mind is somewhere outside this universe and is communicating with the brain, so when the brain is damaged, that the communications are interrupted?

When a person is born mentally retarded, is there mind abnormal or their brain?

Is there a Bible verse or two that might explain where this incorporeal mind is and how it communicates with the corporeal brain?

In the realms of the metaphysical. ( 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. dimension??? )

As I understand, brain communicates with mind. Brain damage is not mind damage. Brain damage sometimes interferes with the communication connection of the " brain/mind system".

I don't know. How many dimensions does this Universe have?

I don't know. Being physical, I'd SWAG brain.

Not that I am aware of. Ask a Bible verse guru.

 

[Mesogen]

So somewhere off in the 5th dimension (up up and away in my beautiful balloon) there is some hippie sitting on a beach telling his friend that each of these grains of sand is really the mind of a person living in 3 dimensions that communicates with its brain unless its damaged. And then his friend tells him to shut up and quit bogarting the doobie.

 

[Truth Warrior]

So somewhere off in the 5th dimension (up up and away in my beautiful balloon) there is some hippie sitting on a beach telling his friend that each of these grains of sand is really the mind of a person living in 3 dimensions that communicates with its brain unless its damaged. And then his friend tells him to shut up and quit bogarting the doobie.

Yeah, I thought it just might be over your head.

Rock On, Dude!

 

[sophocles07]

Without God, you couldn't make anything intelligible

pumpkin pie

prove this

Can you explain how morality is intelligible through a strictly scientific approach?

There is no reason to believe that morality could not have developed just as language did—through evolution. Pinker and Chomsky have both pointed this out. Theists want to mystify the concept of morality/ethics. It’s not that mystical.

So your telling me that our respective views of morality are subject to the signals of neurons from our biological brain?

Yes. Anything to do with science seems objectionable to people like Theocrat. “WUT! PAYNE is jus’ yr BRAIN? RIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!”

Get with it cloudhoppers.

Brain ( physical ) is IN the body ( physical ), mind is NOT. It's metaphysical, and communicates with brain. Or so the "untestable scientific theory" goes.

This is absolute nonsense.

Your creationist underbelly beings to show.

In the realms of the metaphysical. ( 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. dimension??? )

Is there some reason the other dimensions would not, too, be physical?

As I understand, brain communicates with mind. Brain damage is not mind damage. Brain damage sometimes interferes with the communication connection of the " brain/mind system".

What is “it” and where did you get this understanding?

 

[Hiki]

But what IS it? Please describe it (or what it might be).

I honestly don't know. It could be materialistic, some really low frequencies that we haven't noticed. I mean people sometimes get really weird experiences, things that science can't explain (dont ask me for examples, cant remember). But I do believe that it comes from the brain, and if the brain (matter) dies, then the "consciousness" (spiritual) dies too, hence the term "emergent materialist".

The Mayan Calendar comes north This 3-hour presentation really explains my "belief". Part two is in related videos.

 

[Mesogen]

I honestly don't know. It could be materialistic, some really low frequencies that we haven't noticed. I mean people sometimes get really weird experiences, things that science can't explain (dont ask me for examples, cant remember). But I do believe that it comes from the brain, and if the brain (matter) dies, then the "consciousness" (spiritual) dies too, hence the term "emergent materialist".

The Mayan Calendar comes north This 3-hour presentation really explains my "belief". Part two is in related videos.

Just like to add that just because science hasn't explained something yet, it doesn't mean that the effect in question comes from the netherworld or involves ghosts or spirits.

 

[Hiki]

Just like to add that just because science hasn't explained something yet, it doesn't mean that the effect in question comes from the netherworld or involves ghosts or spirits.

Yes I know, and I'm sure that science can explain the weird functions of the brain. But I'm not talking about ghosts or some "netherworld", you get the wrong idea. Watch the second part of that Mayan Calendar -presentation, it really explains the mind and consciousness thing I'm talking about.

 

[DrYongrel]

 

[sophocles07]

Sup?

MOTHAFUCKA!!!!

Huh?

Tha's right

Note: above is Theocrat.

 

[sophocles07]

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