What Do Women Want?

[MelissaWV]

Jesus Wept.

I'd like to amend my answer to include men who know when to shut up about their exes, and comparing me to them, and lumping me in with "womankind" as if "we" have meetings every week on how best to step on your jollysticks.

Seriously. Forget impressing women, parts of this thread make me a little bit lesbian, except that it's people that are largely the issue... so that doesn't solve things.

Writing a huge paragraph on the joys of being poly? Poly works for some, but most of the time it just multiplies the potential for conflict, and it can turn ugly. Can, not will. Most of the time it's the ones crowing loudest about it, unsolicited, that will have the problems. Interesting how that works!

Women want power? People like to have some sort of use. Personally, I like being useful, but I like people who remember that and are grateful for it. I like the idea I'm being thought of when I'm not actively talking or screwing or cooking or at a movie or doing some other active thing with someone. I'm not looking for some guy to control. What fun, exactly, is that?

Stereotyping is not sexy. That's great, if you want to tell me "most of the women I've met" do this, do that, were like this, like that. You can be assured I'm very unlikely to be like any of them. You can also be assured that, as you waste time telling me all these things, I will think less of you.

 

[strapko]

Sure they want power.. Look at every single male celeb even if he is ugly he has crowds of women chasing him without him even approaching. Do you see tones of males running and fighting over Oprah? Nope.

 

[Danke]

Do you see tones of males running and fighting over Oprah? Nope.

I thought Tones was a happily married woman...

 

[strapko]

I thought Tones was a happily married woman...

Clever... lol.

 

[MelissaWV]

I don't see "tons" of attractive people going after celebrities, really. It's another pipe dream. It's a safety net people put up so they won't actually have to deal with the work of getting up off their butts and saying "hello" to someone they like in reality

I see the shallow sorts, by and large, compartmentalizing themselves over and over again until they're lusting after some airbrushed persona on the silver screen (male or female). Those "ugly" guys, by the way, are usually rather swaggery. There are lots of physically icky female celebrities that are made "prettier" by their status in life to men as well. It's packaging. Do you really think Britney is that much hotter than girls you could find in the trailer park? Put on $1000 worth of makeup and clothing, and whammo. Oh em gee she is so utterly HAWT! lol Not really, but yet people eat it up!

I still stand by what it is I wanted, and I still point out that whining and insisting women want power, or money, or whatever the whine-du-jour is... is going to be a sure-fire way to condition yourself to miss the ones that don't want those things, and might have even just wanted you

Oh and to answer the opening question even more simply: I want a cherry Icee I'm sick today, and my throat hurts. Yep, a man could win my affection for $1.05 (which is, apparently, also what Freedom costs)

 

[Nirvikalpa]

Wow, what a thread! I think both Acala and asimplegirl have pretty much nailed it. I'm just surprised that they have not both been personally attacked for their viewpoints, rather than being disagreed with. My experience is probably pretty similar to Acala's. I made the very same observation long, long ago about how the seemingly most desirable girls ALWAYS preferred the assholes over the nice guys. Never cried in my beer over it, just never understood it, and still don't. Being in control of a relationship, being an asshole, and not caring for / about whoever you're with are all NOT mutually inclusive! Being in control of a relationship is not a burden, it is a responsibility - if you view it as a burden, your relationship is doomed. Being in control of a relationship does NOT mean that you are a "serial dater" - asimplegirl provides good testimony to this. Acala is absolutely correct in that chasing a girl is not the way to actually catch one, and that that will only get you the girls who want to step on you / take you for a ride / play games / waste your time / etc - been there, done that as well. After getting divorced, I did a lot of soul searching. My conclusion was that the relationships that had been most successful, happiest, and longest lasting for me were the ones that I had the most control in the relationship. I also realized that I was naturally dominant, and would always seek control of any given situation - this was something that went all the way back into early childhood, as I thought of comments that schoolteachers and relatives had made over the years. So I concluded that in order to really be successful in a relationship, I needed to look specifically for a girl who was as naturally submissive as possible (here is the yin and yang that Acala refers to). This strategy has paid off in spades. Suddenly girls were coming out of the woodwork and offering themselves to me! I actually had to reject girls, and told several to take a hike. It did take a bit of time to find one who truly and sincerely wanted to play by all of my rules, but that was well worth the wait: she loves finding and bringing other girls to me, and after our first two years together, she found another wonderful girl who has now also become a permanent part of my household. Another is arriving tonight to visit for the weekend and offer herself to me. Yet another is currently in the process of matching schedules so that she may do the same. My girls have all the security they could ever want, they know that as long as they are always obedient and respectful, that they will never be cast aside for someone else. In my opinion, poly girls are the ONLY way to go! Remember, it is not my intent here to give advice or tell someone else how to conduct their relationship - I'm only saying what worked for me, so make of it what you will, and YMMV. As Acala says, once you start looking through the other end of the telescope in how you view relationships, and you let girls know in no uncertain terms that you will not tolerate any bull, the difference is night and day. Yes, you will take some heat from feminist types and those that simply don't understand (how such a relationship can be a healthy one) or are jealous - just let them stew in their own misery and enjoy the good relationship that they do not have. I do disagree with Acala on the concept of soul mates - this is not necessarily a fairy tale, it is merely another way of expressing that there is someone, somewhere out there who is a "perfect match" for everyone - I do agree that you can certainly spend a lifetime chasing a unicorn instead of sticking in a good relationship that works. Acala makes a very interesting argument about other species, and how males and females are "hardwired" differently to have different roles in a relationship. Around the time of my soul searching, I remembered hearing about a book a couple years earlier that was written by a marriage councilor (if I remember correctly), that was supposed to be very good, but controversial because it presented an alternative or out of the box type of viewpoint. Seeking more insight or more of an understanding as to why my marriage failed, I found the book because I remembered it sounded interesting when I had heard about it a couple years before. I forget the authors' name (easy to come up with by googling, if this interests anyone), but the book was called "The Surrendered Wife". The author made EXACTLY the same argument as Acala about the natural roles of males and females in relationships, and very similar points (which I agree with as well) to Acala and asimplegirl about how changes in our society with regards to attitudes towards "equality", "womens' rights", etc have done nothing but destroy the institution of marriage and much of our social fabric. Although it was written for a female audience, I found it an extremely interesting read, and an absolutely beautiful book. I'm curious as to whether either of you (Acala or asimplegirl) have ever heard of or read it? I find it wonderful and inspiring that asimplegirl has joined this discussion in the way that she has - a female viewpoint from this perspective, I find quite unexpected in such a (small l) libertarian gathering place, and I not only thank her for her beautiful contributions to this thread, but recognize the courage that she has to be able to present such a politically / socially incorrect viewpoint as a female. I'll most certainly take a look at the link she provided, it does sound interesting. asimplegirl, both Acala and myself have given a bit of background as to how we arrived where we did - how about you? How did you end up realizing that your "lifestyle choice" (your interesting choice of words) was what worked best for you? I must also admit that Laura has very much so piqued my curiousity as to exactly what sort of porn she enjoys with her chocolate - I kinda doubt that she's willing to tell anyone, though. Does anyone else find workingpoor conspicuous in her absence from this thread? Well over 25 pages, and I would have expected her to be ranting on Acala long ago, lol. I'm fairly surprised that Laura hasn't ranted on Acala either, and has only spoken on the rape fantasy thing - almost seems out of character, in a way.

Funny you talk about the 'institution of marriage' and then brag that you sleep with multiple women.

Both sexes 'offer themsevles,' not just females.

You sound like you are a king on the throne. 'I have another one offering herself to me tonight.' Humans are more than animals and no one deserves to be 'conquered,' which after reading your passage I feel you would have no problem doing to another human (female) being.

 

[invisible]

cheapseats: would you say the same of asimplegirl's husband? Again, being in control of a relationship is NOT mutually inclusive of being an asshole / uncaring / etc.

give.me.liberty: you did not read my post closely enough, I was not speaking about marriage (my reference to marriage was in regards to an argument someone else had made). Stating what works for me, and that I have been successful at it is not bragging. I have no desire to "conquer" anyone - that word implies a pursuit - I do not persue or chase women - if someone offers themselves to you, that is not a conquest.

 

[Acala]

Response

I'm curious as to whether either of you (Acala or asimplegirl) have ever heard of or read it?

I have not heard of it.

Does anyone else find workingpoor conspicuous in her absence from this thread? Well over 25 pages, and I would have expected her to be ranting on Acala long ago, lol. I'm fairly surprised that Laura hasn't ranted on Acala either, and has only spoken on the rape fantasy thing - almost seems out of character, in a way.

I am not at all surprised that the women are not ranting about what I have written. I would expect that most of them find what I have said to be true. They don't need the MSM to tell them what they like in a man. They can FEEL it. They know that confident, independent, slightly scary men make them hot and accomodating, subservient wimps don't. Only MEN are foolish enough to believe the feminist rant or the Hollywood fiction about what women want.

 

[MelissaWV]

They know that confident, independent, slightly scary men make them hot and accomodating, subservient wimps don't. Only MEN are foolish enough to believe the feminist rant or the Hollywood fiction about what women want.

I do know what I want myself. It isn't "slightly scary" at all. I'm approaching 30 and someone who is rude to me, slightly scary, or otherwise can't figure out what I posted earlier within this same thread, is not worth my time. I might have lived half my life already, or a third. I don't have time to waste on stereotypes I've got a real human being of substance that I'm going to give a chance to. Honestly, not even gender matters above that one!

"Feminist" can be a terrible thing, but it was useful once. I'm glad I have the chance to pick and choose and test-drive without having rocks cast at me or having a big letter "A" stitched onto me. (Fiddle dee dee, I'm still married, technically!) I'm all for men and women both figuring out who they are, sticking to that, and hopefully finding people to spend their time with who make it worth spending such a precious resource on.

I have to personally giggle at the "oh women want a strong scary big burly bread-winner" thing. It's just not for me. That's what a lot of posts in this overlong debate are missing. The alternative is not ONLY a "sensitive man" or a "metrosexual" or whatever you'd like to call it. There are guys who're just guys. They'd like someone to get through life with, maybe even make a baby or two with, and retain as much of their single selves as they can. There are guys looking for trophies, or sex fiends, or someone to control forever and ever. There's a huge variety beyond the "manly man" type, and even within it.

My "type" has long hair, no eyesight, sensitive fingers (there are advantages to being blind!), two steady sources of income, is incredibly well-read (nothing like getting a recording of his voice, all done in one take, of his reading of some Lovecraft... now THAT is a gift worth treasuring), still has connections to his family (but isn't controlled by them), and a ready, sincere smile that lights me up from head to toe. His favorite passtime for the past 9 months or so seems to be listening to me and encouraging me to talk about anything and everything. He's not the sort to pin me down or be pinned down, and he's not exactly He-Man.

Somehow, that guy doesn't even figure into the discussion anywhere. I'm not surprised.

 

[Acala]

Conquest

Both sexes 'offer themsevles,' not just females.
Humans are more than animals and no one deserves to be 'conquered,' which after reading your passage I feel you would have no problem doing to another human (female) being.

BOTH sexes conquer but in a different way.

Men conquer by driving forward and by penetrating. Woman conquer by accepting and enveloping. Men conquer by being hard. Women conquer by being soft.

A hard, controlling, demanding woman will draw from me only pity for her sad mental derangement. A soft, gentle, submissive woman can have all of me without even asking.

 

[Danke]

There are guys who're just guys. They'd like someone to get through life with, maybe even make a baby or two with, and retain as much of their single selves as they can... There's a huge variety beyond the "manly man" type, and even within it.

Yep.

Thanks for interjecting in what is otherwise is a very juvenile thread.

 

[Acala]

okay

"Feminist" can be a terrible thing, but it was useful once. I'm glad I have the chance to pick and choose and test-drive without having rocks cast at me or having a big letter "A" stitched onto me. .

The hippie women who broke down sexual double standards performed a valuable service. That is not who I am talking about when I say feminist. I am talking about the women who claim that men and women are the same, are fungible, and should have identical roles in relationships. They have done terrible harm.

I have to personally giggle at the "oh women want a strong scary big burly bread-winner" thing..

I never said anything about big, burly, or bread. Those things don't matter much. What I said is confident, independent and a little scary. And I stick by that as what most women find attractive. If you want a weak, dependent, timid man that lets you step on him, go for it. I feel sorry for both of you. If you DON'T want that kind of man, then we really don't have much disagreement.

 

[MelissaWV]

My final, weary point on this is just a rehash.

If you feel a need to categorize men into two neat little piles (the ones you're a little scared of and whatever else, and the ones who let you step all over them) and leave no room for anything else, what sort of service are you doing yourself, or either "kind" of man? One could ask "what do men want" and come up with equally silly things like "men want big boobs!" or "men want it to rain beer!", and those would be ideas that'd please some of the people, some of the time.

Other men might want a quiet cabin in the woods and a supply of old books.

Other men might want other men to cuddle with.

Other men might want delicious meals to appear for no real reason other than to be consumed.

Still other men might want a massage from skilled, passionate hands.

And some might even want a sympathetic ear that listens more than kindly lips move.

Figuring out who you are is more important than figuring out who your perfect mate is going to be, and what they want (pure guesses based solely on gender). When you can present yourself concisely, and without contradiction, you're going to strike gold.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[cheapseats]

cheapseats: would you say the same of asimplegirl's husband? Again, being in control of a relationship is NOT mutually inclusive of being an asshole / uncaring / etc.

Thanks for the spacing, and the civil reply. For the same price, why not eh?

I think I understand the angle of your question but propriety dictates that, under the circumstances, it constitutes a rhetorical question. Upon consideration, I'm sure you would no more want me to talk about asimplegirl's husband to YOU than you would want me to talk about YOU to a simplegirl's husband. Speaking of respect.

As it happens, though, I DO mean to have an online chat with asimplegirl at our earliest mutual convenience. Chats with asimplegirl are always insightful and fun -- stay tuned.

Did you happen upon or hear about this thread? I feel as though your big block dissertation-resembling-diatribe was the first time I encountered your screen name.

Peace. To ALL of you.

Me, I was never good three in a sandbox. If monogamy isn't the order of the day, then what's good for the gander is good for the goose.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[cheapseats]

Fair call. I respect your fortitude.

Peace in the Valley.

Forgive me if I'm still a little bit REELING from our fast-paced and informative exchange last night -- where ARE my manners?

I take this as high praise. I like a man who can concede a point, especially when he's wrong. There are a peculiar number of men, white men in particular, who think being a Man means never having to say 'I'm sorry.'

Big mistake.

If you ever wanna let me know what HAPPENED, feel free. When I heard LAX, I thought you were ON it for a minute -- comin' to RESCUE me. My hero-emphasis-on-he. *sighs at thought of knight in battle-tested armor*

The internet is deceiving, like Life. Alternately exhilarating and disturbing, like Alice Down The Rabbit Hole. Beats hell out of suburbia, though. Suburbs act on me like a narcotic.

Peace, indeed. I keep trying, in a take-no-prisoners way.

 

[cheapseats]

Well to my defense the thread states "what do women want?"

Are you re-visiting your blanket judgment that WOMEN/generic want power, or are you acknowledging that men are rather the MORE fanatical about power?

Talk about Control Freaks, sheesh.

 

[cheapseats]

The demotion of What Women Want, from Health Freedom to Off Topic, almost could not BE more ironic.

You can tell a lot about a country by the way the men treat the women.

 

[Roxi]

I've wondered about this ever since a girl I knew confessed this to her friend, who in turn told me. Her fantasy was being raped by a burglar in the middle of the night.

Needless to say I was like WTF that chick is whack. However she seemed perfectly normal in all other respects.

that is a VERY common fantasy, (even if it isn't admitted) BUT most women who have that fantasy would never actually want to have it happen like that, if at all... they would want to know when it was going to happen, who was doing it etc, but just have the familiar person "pretend" to be a burglar

but most women would regret going through with it at all im sure

but even though it sounds whack... its less about being a freak, and more about submissiveness... having someone have power over you, especially if its a strong willed powerful woman in all other aspects of life

 

[Roxi]

bottom line, women our individuals, who want individual things.... Acala sounds like hes the closest i have heard when it comes to understanding the majority of women i have known in my life (myself included) although not on everything...

i didn't read through the whole thread, and not at all before i posted my above comment...

but that being said heres a nutshell of what i think the majority of women want

when i say we, im only speaking for the majority of women i have known, and for myself... i am not intending to be collectivist here:


we want to be respected first and foremost... this included a broad spectrum of things, including but not limited to, HONESTY, communication, etc...

we want men to be somewhat dominant, but still hold our opinions in high regard, meaning, take charge, but ask us what we think first (this one can be tricky )

we want a certain amount of "southern manners" ie.. be a gentleman, not just to us, but other women as well (if we see you treating your mom or other women with respect, we know its likely you will treat us this way too)

we want to know you will protect our feelings when necessary

we want to know you will defend, and protect us when necessary

we want to know you believe in us, and our independence

we want you to be open minded

we want you to baby us once in a while to an extent, but don't let us take advantage of you... this should be a two way street, no one person doing everything for the other person

we don't want you to put up with a bunch of BS. Show some self respect and tell us to "knock it off" demand our respect, but again respect us the same.(do unto others...)

we don't want you to let us take advantage of you

we dont want clingy, neediness, desperation, egotistical, disrespectful

do everything you can not to yell at us, remind us not to yell at you as well... yelling should not be tolerated in a relationship... mistakes are made, especially if yelling is a habit, there should be boundaries set, and a reminder each time not to yell

don't be afraid to apologize, and expect an apology when its due as well

try not to be too pessimistic

be nice (not just to us, but others as well)

take some time out to focus on us... especially if you are involved in lots of extra-curricular activities... include us when possible, and let us know your there even when your busy

theres probably more im forgetting but i think that should help some of you out

i think this probably goes both ways too... girls can follow this advice toward men as well... i have the most amazing boyfriend, who not only "gets it" but gets me as well... i think thats important in a relationship... one of the things i value the most about mine, is my boyfriend understands me, and even when he doesn't he isn't afraid to admit that, and he still treats me with respect after almost 4 years, even when things get rough... he lets me know frequently how much he cares about me, and i try to do the same for him.

 

[Working Poor]

I am not certain what you mean by what do women want. Do you mean what do they want from a man?

I don't want anything from a man. I don't expect anyone to take care of me. I think everyone ought to contribute to household expenses and do their fair share of chores.

If you are asking about what do women want from a sexual encounter or relationship I suppose whatever they can get.