What causes conflict between Christian Conservative Republicans and libertarians?

AutoDas said:
If abortion is murder then shouldn't you put the women who get abortions on death row or at least give them a lifetime sentence?
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Roe v. Wade gave them a pass, and further GREW the Federal government. 40 some MILLIONS, since then, and counting. :( :mad:
 
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heavenlyboy34 said:
If I may ask, what do you think of J.S. Mill's critique of religion in his book "On Liberty"? :confused: (This is a text that can be discussed civilly, IMHO)
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Never read the book, but looked it over on google. I would susspect he did'nt agree with Legislating morality by gov. or by the majority on the minority. It's a fact that our law & constitution contain some moral law's, some I don't agree with some I do believe are necessary for a civil sociaty. I don't agree with abortion since it involves killing a child & the fed. should't be involved at all. This is a state issue. Many of the reasons christians dis-agree with libertairians is the war on religion as Ron Paul has writen about. For instance taking God off our currency, taking God out of our schools. This is using the courts to legislate for a minority against a majority. They see our country slowly becoming european so the churches start fighting back by voting for more religion & most don't even realize they & you are being used by gov. to take away our freedom. This is what has separated this movement.
 
worl said:
I think you have the title wrong. Most of the christians, or the few that have stayed, are constantly insulted by libertairians. Most of us that are religious don't agree with each other on doctrine or interpretation, but we don't insult each other. I and many other's have said all along that for this movement to work, we need to apeal to all types of people including christian but it hasn't worked out & most of the religious people have gone. I've learned a lot here & will continue to support Paul, but I won't support the war on religion or work with with anyone with that atitude.
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Which is exactly why they're stupid! How could you possible hope to grasp any sort of power when you shun and insult 80% of the population. It's almost as if these people don't want to succeed. It's far easier to take pot shots from the side and criticise, but they're almost afraid to win.

Stop insulting Christians! RP is himself a Christian which makes this so ironic and frustrating.
 
BlackTerrel said:
Which is exactly why they're stupid! How could you possible hope to grasp any sort of power when you shun and insult 80% of the population. It's almost as if these people don't want to succeed. It's far easier to take pot shots from the side and criticise, but they're almost afraid to win.

Stop insulting Christians! RP is himself a Christian which makes this so ironic and frustrating.
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"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I command?" -- Jesus ( Luke 6:46 )
 
BlackTerrel said:
Which is exactly why they're stupid! How could you possible hope to grasp any sort of power when you shun and insult 80% of the population. It's almost as if these people don't want to succeed. It's far easier to take pot shots from the side and criticise, but they're almost afraid to win.

Stop insulting Christians! RP is himself a Christian which makes this so ironic and frustrating.
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It starts with esoteric debates about some subject like "pornography" or war, and eventually someone starts throwing around ad hominem attacks, which begets more attacks ad infinitum. :( This even happened to Ron Paul, who is much more polite than I am. :p If libertarians are going to have dialogue with Christians, there should be a neutral moderator present to ensure that the debate stays issue-oriented. (if the nonsense on RPF is any indicator)
 
BlackTerrel said:
Isn't the government allowing gay marriage and allowing abortions also making the government an authority on morals? It simply makes the government an authority on morals in a different direction.

Personally, if you want to help Ron Paul you should try to be nice to Christians not treat them like idiots. Isn't Ron Paul himself a Christian?
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I am a Christian, and do not think Christians to be idiots. I only answered the question from my personal experiences.

I don't believe in TAKING anyone's right to believe differently than I do. It is not my business. Government and church should be and are separate.

BTW, Ron Paul is a Christian, but he doesn't turn to the bible for all answers to the government, or I would not support him, as I do not agree with small-minded people, no matter if they believe the same or different than I do. The government *allowing* something is not being an authority, it's *allowing* YOU to the authority of YOUR life by making decisions others may not agree with.
 
heavenlyboy34 said:
It starts with esoteric debates about some subject like "pornography" or war, and eventually someone starts throwing around ad hominem attacks, which begets more attacks ad infinitum. :( This even happened to Ron Paul, who is much more polite than I am. :p If libertarians are going to have dialogue with Christians, there should be a neutral moderator present to ensure that the debate stays issue-oriented. (if the nonsense on RPF is any indicator)
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In what universe will there be a dialog? What do you envision some sort of debate?

There is no one who speaks for all libertarians and certainly no one who speaks for all Christians. The thing to remember, as someone who wants to help Ron Paul is the Christians don't need you, you need them. There's a lot of them, and not that many of you.

The solution is rather simple really. Stop treating Christians like idiots. Stop insulting them and their beliefs.
 
BlackTerrel said:
The solution is rather simple really. Stop treating Christians like idiots. Stop insulting them and their beliefs.
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I understand that you are new and likely didn't experience the things RP supporters experienced during the campaign so Ill put it bluntly.

That's a two way street. If you had read and heard the things said about Ron Paul and his supporters from the mouths of evangelicals during the primary campaign, you would understand the enmity that many of us have for them. I read them even today on many internet sites. Christians do not want "non-believers" in "their party". And if you don't revolve everything in your life around a two thousand year old book then you are a "non-believer". This is why RP was shunned. He does not wish to govern based on that book.
 
devil21 said:
I understand that you are new and likely didn't experience the things RP supporters experienced during the campaign so Ill put it bluntly.

That's a two way street. If you had read and heard the things said about Ron Paul and his supporters from the mouths of evangelicals during the primary campaign, you would understand the enmity that many of us have for them. I read them even today on many internet sites. Christians do not want "non-believers" in "their party". And if you don't revolve everything in your life around a two thousand year old book then you are a "non-believer". This is why RP was shunned. He does not wish to govern based on that book.
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Well, I've been around and I agree with BlackTerrel on this. Looks like he nailed it to me.

Remember this?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=102451&highlight=window
 
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Perhaps when the "Christians" ( in name only ) start acting more like Christians most of the conflicts will simply disappear. Just a thought. :)

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​
 
Perhaps when those proclaiming "individual liberty" start acting like they actually believe in it for anyone besides just themselves, most of the conflicts will simply disappear. :)
 
LibertyEagle said:
Some, yes, however there also appear to be a number of others who claim to be anti-state and pro-liberty, but refuse to respect others individual liberty. These people are called HYPOCRITES.
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And many of them ( MILLIONS ) are also called Christian Conservative Republicans too.

Only the respectable are worthy of respect.<IMHO>

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Triumph of Imperial Christianity[/FONT]
Laurence Vance on the conservatives' war religion.
 
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Agreed that there are hypocrites all the way around. But, constantly taking jabs at anyone who is Christian or Republican and therefore alienating them and driving them away, does not seem like a prudent way to gain converts.
 
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