What are some people's problem with Ron Paul supporting Homeschooling?

MayTheRonBeWithYou;

How about the Golden Rule? It's an idea that pre-dates Christianity.

Where did you as an atheist or non-theist think this belief comes from? Why would a lower life form develop this morality? It does not serve the best interest of the individual to be altruistic...

Animals display altruism. Read about the bonobo chimpanzees in Africa, for example. Lions prides behave this way as well. Many great books have been written about why humans cooperate and do better when they adhere to something like the Golden Rule.
 
MayTheRonBeWithYou;

How about the Golden Rule? It's an idea that pre-dates Christianity.

Where did you as an atheist or non-theist think this belief comes from? Why would a lower life form develop this morality? It does not serve the best interest of the individual to be altruistic...

Hammer time Thump!
 
The argument has moved beyond home-schooling, which I very strongly support, into a more general discussion about whether a parent should be brainwashing their children with superstitious beliefs.

However it is your stance that makes the government fear homeschoolers. They also use this belief to get the publics support in believing that the government can raise better citizens than parents. They target those who disent from their views...
 
Animals display altruism. Read about the bonobo chimpanzees in Africa, for example. Lions prides behave this way as well. Many great books have been written about why humans cooperate and do better when they adhere to something like the Golden Rule.

So basically you agree then that all beings have a common source...Hmm funny so do I. I just don't believe in the same origination you do. Both are theories.
 
It is hard to dismiss the absolute diversity and unique development against all odds as all matter being devoid of any planning. You can choose to believe that altruism is a factor that developed to benefit an organism, but it is illogical. In order to care for the weak it costs something from the strong. They would benefit more by dismissing the weak to their own demise, as the rewards are very slim. I believe this tendancy to altruism is divine knowledge,you don't...To each his own...
 
Animals display altruism. Read about the bonobo chimpanzees in Africa, for example. Lions prides behave this way as well. Many great books have been written about why humans cooperate and do better when they adhere to something like the Golden Rule.

Who is running for the hills now Faux Jedi?
 
I don't have any problem with children being exposed to various religions, but I do have a problem with them being brainwashed into a particular religion by their parents. Are these parents also allowing them to be exposed to rational thought and skepticism as well? In some cases, I doubt it. I think they are flat-out being brainwashed, and it's a terrible thing to see, because these children are defenseless against it.

Notice that as soon as I tried to pin ConstitutionGal down about whether she allows her children to read opposing points of view about religion (rational, skeptical views), she ran for the hills.


Well....If you simply must know....She hasn't "Ran" anywhere!
She's just 'had it up to here' with your insolence and main-line stubbornness (READ: Stupidity)!

… As have I and many others on this forum.

You claim to “…not have a problem…” with a great many things – but you do have a problem with any type of religion and the instruction of any portion of it.
…more’s the pity.

As I’ve already stated – I am married to the Lady you know as “ConstitutionGal” and share homeschooling duties with Her and have done so for quite a long time. We teach a great many things – from more than only the two points-of-view of our own.

I happen to believe that Religion and Evolution are not mutually exclusive. I believe that some portions of evolution actually coincide with religion and reinforce it.

I have no problem teaching subjects that contain items that I may not completely agree 100% with…as I allow myself (as does my Wife) the opportunity to experience new ideals and information. We allow our children to make many decisions on their own – AFTER being exposed to many sides of a subject. (which is one thing that you are unable….or unwilling……to comprehend.)

This Nation is, for the most part, still a Free Country! ;)
….but ideals such as yours strike at the very heart –n- soul of those Freedoms.

If you are such a follower and/or believer of Dr. Ron Paul (and his message) I completely fail to understand why you have such a problem of allowing someone to make a choice…or decision…of their own accord. You seem to feel that *You Know Better* about everyone dealing with everything. If that is the case with you, and I pray that I am incorrect with that hypothesis, then you seriously need to re-think why you want to be a part of The Ron Paul Revolution. As for the remainder of This Revolution…we already know and understand what Freedom – Liberty – and the Prosperity that comes from them – really mean.

All we are attempting to do is ALLOW as many as CHOOSE to do so….learn those very things.

…and as for what you think about me and what I do and how I live my life…you have three choices (GASP! :eek:)

You can live with it – Get over it – Or die with it !


Now then…I, too, am “Done” with you, sir !
 
MayTheRon, I noticed your appeals to scientific method. But here I notice that, when I try to hold YOU to that in your arguments, you just ignore the test.

Can you answer my questions, or not?
 
To MTRBWY,
You ever get the feeling you are right
and everyone else is wrong?


Well this ain't the case right now :D
 
As I’ve already stated – I am married to the Lady you know as “ConstitutionGal” and share homeschooling duties with Her ....

I happen to believe that Religion and Evolution are not mutually exclusive.

Good man.

If you are such a follower and/or believer of Dr. Ron Paul (and his message) I completely fail to understand why you have such a problem of allowing someone to make a choice…or decision…of their own accord.

CHILDREN DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHEN THEIR PARENTS BRAINWASH THEM. Is that clear enough for you to understand my position????? I don't care what adults think or do with their lives, but defenseless children should not be brainwashed into superstitious thinking.

Will you answer my question: Will you allow your older children to read Dr Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness"? Will you allow them to read opposing, rational, skeptical views on religion? Or will you hold them hostage to your own ancient superstitions?
 
Good man.



CHILDREN DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHEN THEIR PARENTS BRAINWASH THEM. Is that clear enough for you to understand my position????? I don't care what adults think or do with their lives, but defenseless children should not be brainwashed into superstitious thinking.

Will you answer my question: Will you allow your older children to read Dr Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness"? Will you allow them to read opposing, rational, skeptical views on religion? Or will you hold them hostage to your own ancient superstitions?

As long as you promise to read the "old desert book" you detest!

Why are you trying to hold others to
standards you yourself will not adhere to?

What a hypocrite!
:(
 
"Or will you hold them hostage to your own ancient superstitions?"

Have you ever read the Talmud or the Bible?

Yes or no.
 
Good man.



CHILDREN DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHEN THEIR PARENTS BRAINWASH THEM. Is that clear enough for you to understand my position????? I don't care what adults think or do with their lives, but defenseless children should not be brainwashed into superstitious thinking.

Will you answer my question: Will you allow your older children to read Dr Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness"? Will you allow them to read opposing, rational, skeptical views on religion? Or will you hold them hostage to your own ancient superstitions?

I think he said he had had enough of your obtuseness...Children belong to their parents not the state. Raising them with a parents values is what parents should do...Just because they are not falling in lock step with your secular humanist propaganda does not mean they are being BRAINWASHED...Like I said before been indocrinated into your own group of self righteousness thinkers platform. You aren't argue any new points we haven't seen before by the Dawkins' of the world...
 
I'm sorry, what is your question?

You cited statistics showing an disproportional number of atheists vs. christians in prison. Now can you prove that it's BECAUSE of religion?

Or did you forget the first rule, correlation does not equal causation?

And you haven't cited any evidence regarding your claims about higher education.
 
Good man.



CHILDREN DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHEN THEIR PARENTS BRAINWASH THEM. Is that clear enough for you to understand my position????? I don't care what adults think or do with their lives, but defenseless children should not be brainwashed into superstitious thinking.

Will you answer my question: Will you allow your older children to read Dr Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness"? Will you allow them to read opposing, rational, skeptical views on religion? Or will you hold them hostage to your own ancient superstitions?

Hey, you could just stop talking now? Nobody really cares what you have to say, and I'll be honest, I don't care what your post count is. Half the posts you make seem you are trolling to me. Either turn over a new leaf, or go to the Athiest Rant forums.
 
Hey, you could just stop talking now? Nobody really cares what you have to say, and I'll be honest, I don't care what your post count is. Half the posts you make seem you are trolling to me. Either turn over a new leaf, or go to the Athiest Rant forums.

He is absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum
and I for one like to call him out to expose him.

His house if he has one is built on shifting sands!
 
Well, being a teacher myself certified to teach both science and math, currently teaching math in a high school, I have a few opinions on this thread.

1. Evolution: The more I learned about science, the scientific method, and the requirements of proof in science, the more I was shocked at how completely false most claims are of people that push evolution. The typical flaw I found in reporting was that small conclusions were drawn to huge predictions. It is like me buying a car and house in January and predicting that I do the same every month for 10 years. I always split up the evolution arguments into macro and micro evolution. Yes there is plenty of evidence that species evolve over time into different more viable creatures in terms of attributes, but the jump from that into macro evolution and speciation is speculatory and unprovable at best. Creationism is There is no reason to teach either view above the other. Neither is necessary in a solid education. Evolution and Creationism cover one aspect of one part of Biology teaching, which is only one of many areas of science.

2. Home schooling: One of my major projects during my masters degree in education was based on home schooling. There is plenty of evidence of positives in home schooling. I have yet to see anything come out that shows that it is deficient in any measurable way. The issue I have on a policy level is that there is no reason to remove choice from parents in any way. This of course is the same view I hold with most policy. Citizens should never be deprived of their right to choose on ANYTHING based on the views of a few people. The issue of abortion is about the only one where I find any deviation from that at all because it removes choice from a fetus, but in other issues, there is never a valid reason in my view to remove the freedom from one person so long as it does not infringe on the freedoms and rights of another.

3. Religion: This again is the choice of every individual. Parents have the right to teach their children whatever they want. Children have the right to choose whatever they want in terms of religion once they become adults. I would not say that it has no place in school or in government, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in controlling people's lives or behaviors.

4. Ron Paul: Dr. Paul supports choice in schooling, and is also pro-life (while maintaining the freedoms of each state to choose on both issues). Mandating that all children go to a public school violates their freedom. No child should be forced into going to a public school if their parent is against it.

5. Qualifications of teachers: With NCLB, teachers are required to have a certain number of college hours in the area that they are teaching, not just a degree in education. MOST teachers are very qualified to teach the subject that they are in. No, they might not be from the industry, but knowledge of a subject absolutely does NOT make someone qualified to teach it. The very worst teachers most times are the ones that have knowledge of a subject but none about education theory. I personally got into teaching after getting my bachelor's degree in Computer Science and spending time in the field and hating being a programmer and network admin. It took a lot of learning and experience before I became any good at all at being a teacher.

6. Brainwashing: Evolution advocates are generally far more guilty of supposed brainwashing than religious parents are.
 
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