We're All Ready Fascist.

[clouds]

communism is a pretty idea, but it has no bearing on reality at all.

 

[torchbearer]

In a free property respecting capitalist society, everyone can own their own lil' slice of the world.. and what they get is according to how much work they give.
That is the libertarian society.
A world owned by the people.

 

[sophocles07]

As bad as the neo-cons are I still hate Democrats even more.

I hate them both. They're bad in different ways.

 

[cageybee]

Nothing belongs to anyone in a communist society. There is no property.
Welcome to a world of no wealth and no value.
What is yours is mine and what is mine is not mine at all...not if you want it...but wait... that's property.
Some things work better in theory than in practice.

actually, it worked in russia. i lived there. i know it did. the only reason why the Soviet Union broke down was this http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125157

 

[torchbearer]

actually, it worked in russia. i lived there. i know it did. the only reason why the Soviet Union broke down was this http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125157

It works in the sense that you can coerce a slave into labor by starving them and then promising bread and milk stamps in exchange for labor.. controlled by a ruling class of priviledged citizens who delegate the resources for everyone's "good".

 

[cageybee]

In a free property respecting capitalist society, everyone can own their own lil' slice of the world.. and what they get is according to how much work they give.
That is the libertarian society.
A world owned by the people.

and then people like rockefellers rise and start fucking up the world.

 

[torchbearer]

Besides USSR wasn't a communist country, it was a totalitarian socialist country.
Think of a monk commune when you think of communism in the purest meaning of the word.

 

[torchbearer]

and then people like rockefellers rise and start fucking up the world.

rockefellers are not libertarians and they don't respect the constitution.
they are tyrants and the problem. don't confuse them with people who respect other's property.

 

[cageybee]

It works in the sense that you can coerce a slave into labor by starving them and then promising bread and milk stamps in exchange for labor.. controlled by a ruling class of priviledged citizens who delegate the resources for everyone's "good".

no one was a privileged citizen in Russia. everyone was on a sallary. Stalin never wore fancy suits or lived in a huge palace and enjoyed trips around the world and spent money everywhere. that's a fact.

for you it is hard to understand that no one was forced to be a slave in Russia. people had different values.

for most people here important things are big homes and big cars. over there was education, peace, and a great social life.

 

[Mini-Me]

actually, i explained it very logically, that when big oil giants are a part of US economy and when they start whining that they are not making money and that they may lose their contracts in the middle-east and that will cause US to lose the US dollar's backing - this prompts a military action. So, to summarize, it was corporation's interest that military is defending, and we, the taxpayers are paying for this venture.

when russian FSB turned taliban leaders against USA at a critical moment when US oil companies wanted to run an oil pipeline through Afghanistan and when the taliban started asking for big money - US had to dispatch our military forces to switch afghanistan leadership again to be pro-American.

Under our current system, this is true.

So, when corporations become our government - it is fascism. Therefore, in a capitalist nation, when corporations become too big and their well-being becomes important because it affects our lifestyle - corporations start to influence the direction of our government. Therefore, every capitalist nation is set to become a fascist nation eventually.

This is where you go wrong. The problem is not the existence of money or a free market - the problem is that government is inherently coercive, and that centralized government is inherently overtaken by special interests. The problem is the power of the state, and this is a principle universal to all systems, including and especially Communism.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini, Fascist dictator of Italy

This is true. The problem here is that, although corporations "seem" independent, they actually become part of the state apparatus. This is oppressive because wealth becomes controlled, if not directly owned, by the state. Along with other totalitarian practices like big brother surveillance and the violent elimination of dissent, this is the same problem shared by ALL collectivist systems, and this is why they are all so evil.

Fascism in full swing will come to America when its economy will crash and when all the markets will be cheap and when all the foreigners will be trying to buy our country. Capitalists/Fascists will push for the close of democracy to make sure that no one can buy this country for pennies after the crash of economy.

"The close of democracy?" First of all, this is a constitutional republic. Secondly, the political freedom of democracy has absolutely no bearing on whether foreigners can buy the country for pennies on the dollar - rather, economic freedom and trade policy dictate whether this is possible, and individual choices dictate what is actually bought and sold. You're not speaking of the close of democracy - you're speaking of the close of the free market and the opening of the tyranny of central planning.

That's why the president gave himself an ability to declare a public emergency and to impose a martial law in case of a financial crisis.

Yes, it is - martial law allows for central planning by subjugating the population and forcing them to be subservient.

Since Canadian and Mexican economies are dependent on US economy - their economies will crash too.

True.

Since USA will be closing its borders and relations with Eurasia, it will need to make sure that the trade between USA, Canada, and Mexico is easy - that's why they need North American Union and NAFTA Superhighway, and AMERO.

You're missing the point again here. The North American Union is needed to consolidate the political and economic power of the US for the benefit of the few at the expense of everyone else's freedom and prosperity. The point of the NAU isn't to make "trade" between the US, Canada, and Mexico easy - the point is to centralize politial power and enslave all three populations all at once. The European Union was created for the same reason. While the individual rulers in these entities may compete with each other for dominance the way Republicans and Democrats do (e.g. NAU vs. EU), they are still part of the same system and cooperating to bring about one-world government.

Someone already knew about this outcome and had thought and planned for it for years before.

They knew that Russia would eventually comeback and would be asking for the money that was stolen from it long time ago. The thing is that all these plans show that USA is not going to pay its debts and is ready to get away from the Eurasia and lose its trade and relations with Eurasia. People in NAU will not be free to travel to Eurasia. Eurasia will be NAU's enemy. There may even be a war between NAU and Eurasia, because USA will owe lots of money to China and Russia.

Yes, this is true. Russia and China are not part of the NWO, and they have certainly been slighted by the west. China holds a lot of our debt - they know our dollar is about to crash, and they have the power to make it happen. Their hope is that they'll be able to buy the US out from under us when we default; however, if we childishly close ourselves off to them, they and Russia are probably fully prepared to make war on us to collect. Although Russia and China have been given a raw deal by US dominance, that essentially means that our rulers have been screwing over their people just as badly as they've been screwing over ours. However, that does not automatically make the Chinese or Russian governments the "good guys" as you seem to think - they're simply the other bad guys, exploiting their people and wanting to create a different NWO with them at the center rather than western bankers.

Even if USA will have a revolution that would destroy a Fascist government to restart a government with liberty and justice for all with capitalism - Eurasia is not going to accept USA and will still be demanding its money and will be demanding that the USA does not start a regime that eventually turns into Fascism. They will be asking that in order for there to be peace - there must be one world government and communism is the only way of life because it is great when no one is rich and life is not about money.

Okay, here's where you totally fly off the handle. Repeat after me: Every fricking economic system in the world, including Communism, is technically capitalism. Free market capitalism does not inherently turn into fascism - rather, unchecked centralized government power turns free markets into corporate-fascist markets. When it does, the biggest reason why this is a bad thing is because the people are exploited just like they are under every other collectivist system, including Communism. Read my last post which actually EXPLAINS why our system has turned fascist, and why it's a product of government, not the free market.

You are very correct that China and Russia will want us to repay our debts - however, you then jump to the absolutely ridiculous conclusion that to do that, we must become Communists. That is a baseless assertion. If the NWO fails, freedom will return to America, we will become prosperous again, and we will make good on our debts to foreign countries.

From Ayn Rand (who's not always my favorite, but she was definitely right here):

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?"​

The world revolves around money and power. When money doesn't exist, the world revolves around material goods and power. No matter what, elites own and control everything in a collectivist system. The idea that "the people" collectively own everything and hold hands and live happily ever after under Communism is a myth that Communist rulers use to enslave people to their whims.

American globalists want a one world government where rich rule the poor and is more like a one world kingdom with Rothchild and Rockefeller being the secret kings of the world.

Yeah, pretty much.

Eurasian globalists want a one world government where no one is rich, not even the leaders of the world. They want for the wealth to belong to the world and to the people. They don't want to be kings. They want people to own the world and to choose a leader.

I'm going to be frank here. Since your mind seems entirely impervious to logic and reason, I'm going to rephrase in words you can understand:
You are unbelievably fucking naive if you actually believe this bullshit. This is not how it happened under Communism the last time, and it's not how it will ever happen under Communism. Read my second-to-last post again. I am not debating with you. I debate with people who are merely misinformed and brainwashed, like ordinary Americans. You, on the other hand, are so delusional that you are in a league of your own. It's impossible to "debate" you, because you're so indoctrinated to believe empty Communist platitudes that you've shut the rational part of your mind completely off to repress all logic contrary to your worldview. Instead of debating you, I'm trying to teach and deprogram you.

The funny thing is, you're so delusional that you actually seem to think Russia and China are still Communist (and that they're going to spread it all over the world). News flash: They're not. Outright Communism failed so miserably that Russia and China's economies are now mostly "free markets." They certainly have some fascist elements, like a centralized monetary policy - and China in particular has until recently been suppressing the true value of their currency. Sure, they're still run by the "Communist Party," but the only part kept largely intact is their complete disrespect for the natural rights people possess (free speech, etc.)...although this is not nearly as bad as it was under full-blown Communism. They've lightened up...a little. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make in this paragraph is that even Russia and China aren't backwards enough to share your pro-Communist viewpoints anymore.

 

[Mini-Me]

actually, it worked in russia. i lived there. i know it did. the only reason why the Soviet Union broke down was this http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125157

It worked in Russia? At the expense of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DIED OF FAMINE (aside from the millions who were killed for dissent). That's what happens under Communism - the people who get in line first live comfortably, and everyone else dies when the food runs out. Centralized planning cannot properly manage the production and distribution of goods.

no one was a privileged citizen in Russia. everyone was on a sallary. Stalin never wore fancy suits or lived in a huge palace and enjoyed trips around the world and spent money everywhere. that's a fact.

for you it is hard to understand that no one was forced to be a slave in Russia. people had different values.

for most people here important things are big homes and big cars. over there was education, peace, and a great social life.

No, of course not. Stalin didn't wear fancy suits or travel. Instead, Stalin spent his days being worshipped by his personality cult, imprisoning the people who stopped clapping for him first, and killing the people who were taller than him. Just another day in a utopian society where everyone is equal, isn't it?

People had different values in Russia? Their social lives were so terrific because, as long as they agreed with everything their leaders said, they probably wouldn't be thrown into the gulag and/or executed "for the greater good." If nobody was forced to be a slave, then how come people couldn't opt out of the system if they wanted to? They were enslaved to it, and the only way to "opt out" was to be killed for your beliefs.

 

[clouds]

well, i recently had an enlightenment. i now believe in a one world government, but not under a despot or a puppet of despot, but in communism where everything belongs to the people.

just because you were told that communism doesn't work and it sucks, doesn't mean it is true.

usa never let it work because they wanted to break down russian communism to conquer russia by purchase. capitalists are nothing but exploiters of cheap resources around the world. they go around and tell everyone that people must have democracy. But why??

"If American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism will grow in strength in our land." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

That's why we are running around the world and spreading democracy. We want democracy in communists nations not because we care about its people. We want them to bring down the walls so that we can come and buy up their businesses and resources so that we can have residual income for the rest of the days and so that those communists become colonized by US.

Look at what we did to Iraq. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT IRAQIES. They only care about oil contracts. Fucking noble liberators.

Funny you should quote FDR, a socialist to the core, or someone else's core. Democracy is not the goal, but a republic, where people have representation in their government. I forgot who it was that said democracies last until people discover they can vote themselves into power and wealth. It is actually one of the precursors to fascism.

And the only person who ever told me communism doesn't work was someone who lived under a communist regime. they were willing to call it a nice idea, though.
And you'll find in this forum that we do care about the iraqis. We are against the war that has created the influx of al quaeda in Iraq and the unneccessary killing of thousands of iraqi civilians.

No one broke Russia down. If it was really a viable plan economically, it would never have crumbled.

 

[cageybee]

Besides USSR wasn't a communist country, it was a totalitarian socialist country.
Think of a monk commune when you think of communism in the purest meaning of the word.

it later had to become a totalitarian state because USA kept trying to sneak in propaganda that "life on the other side is better" omitting the fact that life on the other side is immoral and where money is God with no true democracy.

some people were stupid and started believing these lie about a life on the other side. those that started spreading this lie ruined the country for everyone and ruined their own lives. they got put in prison as traitors of humanity and a country had to step up the measures to make sure that no one continues with this propaganda.

but, money is so powerful. it corrupts people because it has power over people. eventually, once US succeeded with the plan of stressing Russia financially, people started to wonder if life was really better on the other side.

 

[torchbearer]

I still don't see how people can believe in this stuff... its like its "cool" or something... I love old USSR artifacts, i have some... my faves are the propoganda posters. but that doesn't mean they had a great system. they in fact had one of the worst systems.
Our current country is getting closer to what the USSR was... Obama wins, you'll have your "paradise" made manifest. by that time, i won't bother telling you.. i told you so... i won't waste the words.

 

[cageybee]

Funny you should quote FDR, a socialist to the core, or someone else's core. Democracy is not the goal, but a republic, where people have representation in their government. I forgot who it was that said democracies last until people discover they can vote themselves into power and wealth. It is actually one of the precursors to fascism.

And the only person who ever told me communism doesn't work was someone who lived under a communist regime. they were willing to call it a nice idea, though.
And you'll find in this forum that we do care about the iraqis. We are against the war that has created the influx of al quaeda in Iraq and the unneccessary killing of thousands of iraqi civilians.

No one broke Russia down. If it was really a viable plan economically, it would never have crumbled.

It worked in Russia? At the expense of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO DIED OF FAMINE (aside from the millions who were killed for dissent). That's what happens under Communism - the people who get in line first live comfortably, and everyone else dies when the food runs out. Centralized planning cannot properly manage the production and distribution of goods.


No, of course not. Stalin didn't wear fancy suits or travel. Instead, Stalin spent his days being worshipped by his personality cult, imprisoning the people who stopped clapping for him first, and killing the people who were taller than him. Just another day in a utopian society where everyone is equal, isn't it?

People had different values in Russia? Their social lives were so terrific because, as long as they agreed with everything their leaders said, they probably wouldn't be thrown into the gulag and/or executed "for the greater good." If nobody was forced to be a slave, then how come people couldn't opt out of the system if they wanted to? They were enslaved to it, and the only way to "opt out" was to be killed for your beliefs.

Centre for Research on Globalisation

According to this 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan preceded the 1979 Soviet invasion. This decision of the Carter Administration in 1979 to intervene and destabilise Afghanistan is the root cause of Afghanistan's destruction as a nation.

M.C.
The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Posted at globalresearch.ca 15 October 2001

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

Translated from the French by Bill Blum

The URL of this article is:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

Copyright, Le Nouvel Observateur and Bill Blum. For fair use only.

 

[cageybee]

I still don't see how people can believe in this stuff... its like its "cool" or something... I love old USSR artifacts, i have some... my faves are the propoganda posters. but that doesn't mean they had a great system. they in fact had one of the worst systems.
Our current country is getting closer to what the USSR was... Obama wins, you'll have your "paradise" made manifest. by that time, i won't bother telling you.. i told you so... i won't waste the words.

our country will never become like USSR because of greedy people. It will become a Fascist totalitarian state though because of the greed.

 

[clouds]

So a totalitarian regime fell. okay. I would rather you explain how good it is to live in China, which was actually a communist regime, not socialist.

 

[clouds]

our country will never become like USSR becomes of greedy people. It will become a Fascist totalitarian state though because of the greed.

so it will never become like the USSR because it will become like the USSR?

 

[cageybee]

so it will never become like the USSR because it will become like the USSR?

USSR was not a fascist state. You are poorly educated.

USSR was the biggest peace advocate and US kept waging wars from another side of the world just like we do right now.

And don't forget that it is Russia that saved the world from Hitler who was supported by USA and UK.

 

[cageybee]

So a totalitarian regime fell. okay. I would rather you explain how good it is to live in China, which was actually a communist regime, not socialist.

China's poor life is because they refuse to be immoral and fall for lies of capitalists.