We need our own island

I just discovered this thread. Someone needs to post a summary for lazy people like me. :D

It caused a mix of emotions, but I'll humor it for now...

Supposing it's possible to do this, and I don't see it happening any time soon, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU CREATE ANOTHER GOVERNMENT?

Are you INSANE?!? Have you learned NOTHING?

You cannot have freedom AND have a government! They are entirely mutually exclusive. Governments survive the same way mobs do - by stealing from individuals who do productive work. How could you go to all this trouble and then establish another state?

Look, this is the same faulty logic our founding fathers followed. Please learn from their mistakes. No matter what words you write down on a piece of paper today, nothing can stop a group of people who are permitted to steal from eventually stealing more. Nothing. The constitution was a really nice try, and I respect that, but look where we are today. And you expect something different, or you're going to teach your grandkids to find another island when Uncle Sam II decides to start his first war?

Would you allow Wal-Mart to take part of your wages under the threat of lethal force or kidnapping if they promised they were going to give a small percentage to charity? Surely not! So why allow a government to do it? What makes these people so special?

The trick is not to tolerate theft in the first place. Just don't do it. And don't let people do it to you. Teach your kids the same morals -- theft is wrong, regardless of what people call themselves, or what group or gang they're in.

With that said, if this were somehow possible, I would immediately hand over my $1500 for some land, even though it would eventually be crushed or confiscated by someone with a military if it ever did anything of value. It would still be a fun project that seems like it would be worth $1500 to see what happens.
 
brunner said:
I just discovered this thread. Someone needs to post a summary for lazy people like me. :D

It caused a mix of emotions, but I'll humor it for now...

Supposing it's possible to do this, and I don't see it happening any time soon, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU CREATE ANOTHER GOVERNMENT?

Are you INSANE?!? Have you learned NOTHING?

You cannot have freedom AND have a government! They are entirely mutually exclusive. Governments survive the same way mobs do - by stealing from individuals who do productive work. How could you go to all this trouble and then establish another state?

Look, this is the same faulty logic our founding fathers followed. Please learn from their mistakes. No matter what words you write down on a piece of paper today, nothing can stop a group of people who are permitted to steal from eventually stealing more. Nothing. The constitution was a really nice try, and I respect that, but look where we are today. And you expect something different, or you're going to teach your grandkids to find another island when Uncle Sam II decides to start his first war?

Would you allow Wal-Mart to take part of your wages under the threat of lethal force or kidnapping if they promised they were going to give a small percentage to charity? Surely not! So why allow a government to do it? What makes these people so special?

The trick is not to tolerate theft in the first place. Just don't do it. And don't let people do it to you. Teach your kids the same morals -- theft is wrong, regardless of what people call themselves, or what group or gang they're in.

With that said, if this were somehow possible, I would immediately hand over my $1500 for some land, even though it would eventually be crushed or confiscated by someone with a military if it ever did anything of value. It would still be a fun project that seems like it would be worth $1500 to see what happens.
Click to expand...

So you want Anarchy? It sounds good but very experimental, I don't know of any place where it has succeeded. Usually it is replaced by a monarchy/dictatorship eventually, who is the fittest in the land. The goal is minarchy, which is as close as I want to get to anarchy.
 
lukeownzu said:
So you want Anarchy? It sounds good but very experimental, I don't know of any place where it has succeeded. Usually it is replaced by a monarchy/dictatorship eventually, who is the fittest in the land. The goal is minarchy, which is as close as I want to get to anarchy.
Click to expand...

Hahah... Hasn't "worked"? Show me a working example of minarchy.

If everyone owns guns, there is no way one person can become a dictator, or monarch, as you call it. What would he do? Beg for his power? Threaten to blow up the whole island?

And what powers would be included in your "minarchy"? A monopoly on arbitration? ("court system") A monopoly on currency? A monopoly on education?

Anyone who wants a monopoly is in need of a real economics lesson.
 
Last edited:
brunner said:
Hahah... Hasn't "worked"? Show me a working example of minarchy.

If everyone owns guns, there is no way one person can become a dictator, or monarch, as you call it. What would he do? Beg for his power? Threaten to blow up the whole island?

And what powers would be included in your "minarchy"? A monopoly on arbitration? ("court system") A monopoly on currency? A monopoly on education?

Anyone who wants a monopoly is in need of a real economics lesson.
Click to expand...

There will be a government funded court system, made up of judges probably elected by the people, but by no means a monopoly. Although there will need to be some method of paying government workers, competing currencies will be legal, and there will be no government control of education.
 
lukeownzu said:
There will be a government funded court system, made up of judges probably elected by the people, but by no means a monopoly. Although there will need to be some method of paying government workers, competing currencies will be legal, and there will be no government control of education.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's a good idea.
 
MusoSpuso said:
Utilities? Property? Economy? Resources? Law?

Do you have any inkling of the kind of work, knowledge and money it would take to start your own country from scratch?

It's fun imagining stuff like this for a lark but seriously...you can't be serious :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

+1.

Not to mention population control (no, I'm not advocating abortion; more like abstinence or birth control). What would be done if people become dissatisfied with the population density? You gonna buy another island?
 
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