Was Winston Churchill a "bad" guy?

Was Winston Churchill a "bad" guy?

  • Yes, he was a "bad" war hawk.

    Votes: 26 63.4%

  • No, not a bad man.

    Votes: 8 19.5%

  • Don't Know / Maybe / Who? / Who Cares?

    Votes: 7 17.1%
  • Total voters
    41
Indy Vidual

Indy Vidual

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
6,490
  • A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. ~Winston Churchill
Great quote (above), he can't be all bad.
Winston Churchill was a leading figure in WW2, but I have not ever paid much attention to him or his legacy. Was Winston Churchill a major Foreign Policy hawk who constantly pushed the US to enter the 2nd war?
 
Churchill is a cousin of mine ... his grandmother is a great-great-grandmother of mine.

He was a warmonger, a tryannt, and a mass murderer..

He ordered the slaughter of innocent women and children ... ordered the gunning down of Iraqi protesters (how things never change)... and advocated dropping mustard gas on entire villages in Iraq to quell the uprising against British Imperialism.

...and we haven't even got to his manipulation and provocation for World War 1 and 2.....

...but he did write well and painted some nice pictures....
 
"I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas.

I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes."

Winston Churchill, departmental minute (Churchill papers: 16/16) 12 May 1919 War Office


Source: http://orwellwasright.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/the-myth-of-churchills-greatness/

This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."
Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2002/nov/28/features11.g21
 
Churchill is the reason we have problems with Iran today. His second term in office was a disgrace to Western civilization.
 
Wasn't it Churchill who changed the allied bombing strategy in WW2 to refocus on German cities in 1940 , resulting in Hitler bombing civilian centres opposed to purely military and manufacturing sites?

Also Dresden was horrific.
 
Sad, as I grow older I find out there is less and less good people left on this Earth.
 
The_Ruffneck said:
Wasn't it Churchill who changed the allied bombing strategy in WW2 to refocus on German cities in 1940 , resulting in Hitler bombing civilian centres opposed to purely military and manufacturing sites?

Also Dresden was horrific.
Click to expand...

Yes, he pushed for the carpet bombing strategy the UK used during WW2. His justification was that it would break the will of the German People. I guess someone forgot to tell him that the Germans were living under a Fascist Dictatorship and had no control over their situation.
 
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BuddyRey said:
Nobody "good" would pal around with the likes of Frankie Roosevelt and Joey Stalin.
Click to expand...

Winston hated Franklin'. That shit is obvious. You think he liked begging to the US to save the british from their Imperial scheme, that was Hitler? The brit's bankrolled the Nazi Party via investment firms in London/Wallstreet. Do you think keynes liked the Bretton Woods system? He nearly flipped his shit when he heard FDR's treasury dept wanted to "fix" exchange rates.

Should I mention the Coup that was foiled against FDR? When investment bankers tried to get General Butler to lead his vets to literally murder FDR if required, with the end result in mind of getting a fascist regime in America.

Reminds me of Amity Schlaes bullshit propaganda "the forgotten man" thrashing FDR.
 
iirc, he was an economizing warhawk. he called for foreign interventionism where it benefitted the national, and warned against it when the costs were to big (as in occupying Iraq in the 1920s). so, his baseline morality put him in the wrong, but his sense of reality sometimes would have made put him philosophically with non-interventionists.
 
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The_Ruffneck said:
Wasn't it Churchill who changed the allied bombing strategy in WW2 to refocus on German cities in 1940 , resulting in Hitler bombing civilian centres opposed to purely military and manufacturing sites?

Also Dresden was horrific.
Click to expand...

Churchill may have had a hand in some unsavoury things but he was no war hawk as you guys suggest...

Winston Churchill, unlike many politicians served in the trenches along with his men. Allow me to elaborate on this. At the time of the out break of WW1, Churchill held the position of First Lord of the Admiralty as part of the Asquith Liberal government. During the war, he continued as First Lord of the Admiralty until the disastrous Gallipoli Campaign, which he had sponsored, this campaign was a military blunder in every sense of the word. Churchill being pretty much in charge of the navy held himself responsible. So, he quit his position and in an effort to make good with himself and his conscience he enlisted in the army and served on the Western Front in the trenches among the fighting men. Now i don't care what anyone says, to have done that takes balls! Many more would have just retreated to a backroom position until the heat was off.

He was also took part in what became known as the last 'proper' cavalry charge in the British army, during the campaign of Sudan in 1898.. Churchill, along with the rest of his company charged machine gun positions on horse back carrying sabre's and lances..He also took part in a daring escape from a prisoner of war camp in Africa during the Boer war, was hunted across the continent until he reached a port and managed to get passage to Britain. Further more, On D-day he actually planned on going ashore with the troops armed with his revolver and walking cane...

War hawks don't serve, war hawks advocate a war policy from the safety of an office someplace and usually lack the courage of their convictions. Churchill may have held some questionable positions and held some dodgy allegiances but at least he was willing to put himself in harms way and go were others would not.

P.s...

When Churchill served as Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1924 he RETURNED the Pound to the gold standard
 
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GrahamUK said:
He didn't 'win' a second term in office
Click to expand...

Winston Churchill
http://www.nndb.com/people/418/000025343/

Winston Churchill AKA Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill

Born: 30-Nov-1874
Birthplace: Blenheim Palace, Oxfordshire, England
Died: 24-Jan-1965
Location of death: London, England
Cause of death: Stroke
Remains: Buried, Bladon, Oxfordshire, England

Gender: Male
Religion: Anglican/Episcopalian
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Head of State

Nationality: England
Executive summary: WWII Prime Minister of England

Military service: British Army

Father: Lord Randolph Churchill
Mother: Jeanette Jerome ("Jennie")
Brother: John Strange Churchill (b. 9-Feb-1880)
Wife: Clementine Ogilvy Hozier (m. 12-Sep-1908)
Daughter: Diana Churchill (b. 11-Jul-1909, d. 1963)
Son: Randolph Frederick Edward Churchill (b. 28-May-1911)
Daughter: Sarah Churchill (b. 7-Oct-1914)
Daughter: Marigold Frances Churchill (b. 15-Nov-1918)
Daughter: Mary Churchill (b. 15-Sep-1922)

High School: Harrow School
University: Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (1895)
Administrator: University of Bristol

UK Prime Minister (1951-55)
UK Minister of Defence (1951-52)
UK Member of Parliament for Woodford (1945-64)
Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports (1941-65)
UK Prime Minister (1940-45)
UK Minister of Defence (1940-45)
Chancellor of the Exchequer (1924)
UK Member of Parliament for Epping (1924-45)
UK Secretary of State for the Colonies (1921-22)
UK Minister of Munition (1917-19)
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (1915)
UK Home Secretary (1910-11)
UK Member of Parliament for Dundee (1908-22)
UK Member of Parliament for Manchester North West (1906-08)
UK Member of Parliament for Oldham (1900-06)
Athenaeum Club (London)
Carlton Club
Conservative Party (UK)
Freemasonry Studholme Lodge, London (1901)
Pilgrims Society
Nobel Prize for Literature (1953)
Congressional Gold Medal
Knight of the British Empire
Kentucky Colonel
Time Man of the Year 1940
Time Man of the Year 1949
Sonning Prize 1950
Taken Prisoner of War
Stroke (Jun-1953)
Stroke (15-Jan-1965)
Naturalized US Citizen 1963 (honorary)
Appendectomy
Hernia Operation (11-Jun-1947)
Huguenot Ancestry
Risk Factors: Depression, Smoking, Dyslexia, Obesity, Stuttering, Appendicitis
 
donnay said:
Winston Churchill
http://www.nndb.com/people/418/000025343/

Winston Churchill AKA Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill

Born: 30-Nov-1874
Birthplace: Blenheim Palace, Oxfordshire, England
Died: 24-Jan-1965
Location of death: London, England
Cause of death: Stroke
Remains: Buried, Bladon, Oxfordshire, England

Gender: Male
Religion: Anglican/Episcopalian
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Head of State

Nationality: England
Executive summary: WWII Prime Minister of England

Military service: British Army

Father: Lord Randolph Churchill
Mother: Jeanette Jerome ("Jennie")
Brother: John Strange Churchill (b. 9-Feb-1880)
Wife: Clementine Ogilvy Hozier (m. 12-Sep-1908)
Daughter: Diana Churchill (b. 11-Jul-1909, d. 1963)
Son: Randolph Frederick Edward Churchill (b. 28-May-1911)
Daughter: Sarah Churchill (b. 7-Oct-1914)
Daughter: Marigold Frances Churchill (b. 15-Nov-1918)
Daughter: Mary Churchill (b. 15-Sep-1922)

High School: Harrow School
University: Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (1895)
Administrator: University of Bristol

UK Prime Minister (1951-55)
UK Minister of Defence (1951-52)
UK Member of Parliament for Woodford (1945-64)
Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports (1941-65)
UK Prime Minister (1940-45)
UK Minister of Defence (1940-45)
Chancellor of the Exchequer (1924)
UK Member of Parliament for Epping (1924-45)
UK Secretary of State for the Colonies (1921-22)
UK Minister of Munition (1917-19)
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (1915)
UK Home Secretary (1910-11)
UK Member of Parliament for Dundee (1908-22)
UK Member of Parliament for Manchester North West (1906-08)
UK Member of Parliament for Oldham (1900-06)
Athenaeum Club (London)
Carlton Club
Conservative Party (UK)
Freemasonry Studholme Lodge, London (1901)
Pilgrims Society
Nobel Prize for Literature (1953)
Congressional Gold Medal
Knight of the British Empire
Kentucky Colonel
Time Man of the Year 1940
Time Man of the Year 1949
Sonning Prize 1950
Taken Prisoner of War
Stroke (Jun-1953)
Stroke (15-Jan-1965)
Naturalized US Citizen 1963 (honorary)
Appendectomy
Hernia Operation (11-Jun-1947)
Huguenot Ancestry
Risk Factors: Depression, Smoking, Dyslexia, Obesity, Stuttering, Appendicitis
Click to expand...

I jumped in w/o reading it properly, lol. I thought you meant second term and re-ellection after the war. Yeh im aware of his later years and i think even he would agree that his second shot at being PM was a disaster. I think by then too much had changed while he'd gotten older.
 
He helped bring about WW2, of course he's a bad guy. It was not exactly a good thing for freedom when Poland got invaded, but what business did Great Britain and France have dictating who can or cannot invade Poland? None. Because of them, WW2 spread to the west.

And don't be kidded that Britain declared war to be nice, they just didn't want competition and because of Churchill, lives were lost. How hypocritical for a country that enslaved countries for years on end to all of a sudden have a change of heart and give a crap about Poland. If they won the war, they would have probably taken Poland for themselves.
 
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Before I answer, I need to know this since my history knowledge is weak.

I heard he was supporter of mideast intervention. Did he believe in arab=jew racial equality doctrime or was anti-semite towards either one of the two races?

If he was anti-semitic towards palestinians or jews, he would not be on my good guys list.
 
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moderate libertarian said:
Before I answer, I need to know this since my history knowledge is weak.

I heard he was supporter of mideast intervention. Did he believe in arab=jew racial equality doctrime or was anti-semite towards either one of the two races?

If he was anti-semitic towards palestinians or jews, he would not be on my good guys list.
Click to expand...

He was not nice towards the Semitics. He also had no problem using poisonous gases on brown people.
 
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