Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

[Robert Jenkins]

Christ was a Jew, his followers were all Jews, the Old Testament comes from the Torah. To deny that Christianity was born out of Judaism is ignorant.

Deborah, you are ignorant, and siding with the enemy. Our Lord was of the tribe of Judah, He founded the religion we call Christianity.

Judahism is not the religion of the OT. It is the religion developed by the Pharisees and expounded upon in the Talmud.

Jesus rejected the Pharisees and their anti-Biblical traditions.

Again, hear this: The Talmud says that Mary was a whore. It says that Jesus was a bastard. And it says that Jesus is burning in hell.

 

[Robert Jenkins]

Wow you’re stupid.

So, I am stupid? You ignorant ass.

Then I take it that you too hold with the Talmud that Mary was a whore, that Jesus was a bastard, and that Jesus is burning in hell.

You must also agree with the zionist neocons who wish to nuke Iran and murder millions of additional people.

You ignorant, traitorous ass.

 

[Robert Jenkins]

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Jesus in the Talmud:

Horrible Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ

While it is the standard disinformation practice of apologists for the Talmud to deny that it contains any scurrilous references to Jesus Christ, certain Orthodox Jewish organizations are more forthcoming and admit that the Talmud not only mentions Jesus but disparages him (as a sorcerer and a demented sex freak). These orthodox Jewish organizations make this admission perhaps out of the belief that Jewish supremacy is so well-established in the modern world that they need not concern themselves with adverse reactions.

For example, on the website of the Orthodox Jewish Hasidic Lubavitch group--one of the largest in the world--we find the following statement, complete with Talmudic citations:

"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the Nazarene':

1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

End quote from http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm (Lubavitch website) June 20, 2000.

[Note: we have printed and preserved in our files a hard copy of this statement from the Lubavitch"Noah's Covenant Website," as it appeared on their website at http://www.noahide.com on June 20, 2000, in the event that denials are later issued and the statement itself suppressed].

Let us examine further some of these anti-Christ Talmud passages:

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery: "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."

Kallah 51a."The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman's menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a bastard and a son of a niddah.

"They said, 'What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?' He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to the lad's mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans.

"He said to her, 'My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.' (eternal life). She said to him, 'Swear it to me.'

"Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, 'What is the status of your son?' She replied, 'When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.' Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah.

"It was declared, '..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba..."

In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars, the preceding Talmud discussion is actually about Jesus Christ (the bastard boy who "uncovered his head" and was conceived in the filth of menstruation). The boy's adulterous mother in this Talmud story is the mother of Christ, Blessed Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in the Talmud).

"The Editio Princeps of the complete Code of Talmudic Law, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah -- replete not only with the most offensive precepts against all Gentiles but also with explicit attacks on Christianity and on Jesus (after whose name the author adds piously, 'May the name of the wicked perish')... --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21.

"The Talmud contains a few explicit references to Jesus...These references are certainly not complimentary...There seems little doubt that the account of the execution of Jesus on the eve of Passover does refer to the Christian Jesus...The passage in which Jesus' punishment in hell is described also seems to refer to the Christian Jesus. It is a piece of anti-Christian polemic dating from the post-70 CE period..." --Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 26-27.

"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

"The more popular accounts--which were nevertheless taken quite seriously--such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists...

"The Hebrew form of the name Jesus--Yeshu--was interpreted as an acronym for the curse, 'may his name and memory be wiped out,' which is used as an extreme form of abuse. In fact, anti-zionist Orthodox Jews (such as Neturey Qarta) sometimes refer to Herzl as 'Herzl Jesus' and I have found in religious zionist writings expressions such as "Nasser Jesus" and more recently 'Arafat Jesus." --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, pp. 97- 98, 118.

 

[Robert Jenkins]

Christianity vs. Judahism

For those who are not familiar with Ancient Near Eastern history, such as Deborah, let's have a little primer.

Scholars generally refer to the religion of the OT as the Hebrew religion. The people of the OT were a Semitic people. A core group was descended from Jacob. The descendants of Jacob intermarried very heavily with other Semitic peoples known as the Canaanites.

The descendants of Jacob worshiped Jehovah. Over a period of time, the worship of Jehovah won out over the religions of the Hebrews' Canaanite ancestors.

There were two very distinct religions which grew out of the Hebrew religion. The two religions are Judaism (or Judahism) and Christianity.

Judahism was founded on the non-Biblical traditions of men, most notably, those of the Pharisees. Judahism was further developed during the writing of the Talmud.

Christianity was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ and was further developed by the Apostles, most notably the Apostle Paul.

OK. Judahism and Christianity were both derived from the Hebrew religion. Christianity was derived from the OT, not the religion of the Pharisees.

The term judeo-Christianity is a misnomer and a contradiction. It is the same as saying phariseeism-Christianity. It doesn't make any sense.

BTW, other groups of Semites closely related to the Hebrews still live in Palestine and Lebanon. Some of them follow Christ. Others follow Mohammed. The Lebanese are descended from the Phoenicians. Many "Arab" Palestinians are likely descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[familydog]

I came into this thread late, and haven’t read through all of the posts. I don’t see anything wrong with allowing Judeo-Christian principles a place among the philosophical/ethical/whatever systems that influenced the founders. It’s obvious it did. What I’m saying is: the real point is that Judeo-Christian principles do not govern the nation; freedom of religion is one of the main ideas; this would never have come about had it not been for the influence of pagan and enlightenment philosophers. You must also note that I am a bit unsure sometimes who is advocating what—as Theocrat does indeed advocate theocracy.



Wow you’re stupid.

My point is that Christian principles, for the most part, are the same as republican principles which we claim to be founded upon. With that said, the majority of "founders" viewed these common principles as both republican and Christian. So, technically it can be said that Christian principles do govern the nation, we just choose to look at them as strictly republican principles, even though the "founders" did not.

Is that nit picking? Sure is, but its fun and that is what the History/Political Theory/Philosophy professon is all about

For the record, I'm not advocating a theocracy or any sort of state religion.

 

[ARealConservative]

Deborah, you are ignorant, and siding with the enemy. Our Lord was of the tribe of Judah, He founded the religion we call Christianity.

Judahism is not the religion of the OT. It is the religion developed by the Pharisees and expounded upon in the Talmud.

Jesus rejected the Pharisees and their anti-Biblical traditions.

Again, hear this: The Talmud says that Mary was a whore. It says that Jesus was a bastard. And it says that Jesus is burning in hell.

I mus be the enemy too, as I reject your god and your enemies god.

 

[yongrel]

So, I am stupid? You ignorant ass.

Then I take it that you too hold with the Talmud that Mary was a whore, that Jesus was a bastard, and that Jesus is burning in hell.

You must also agree with the zionist neocons who wish to nuke Iran and murder millions of additional people.

You ignorant, traitorous ass.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

*breathe*

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[pcosmar]

This has devolved into SNL.

 

[sophocles07]

So, I am stupid? You ignorant ass.

Then I take it that you too hold with the Talmud that Mary was a whore, that Jesus was a bastard, and that Jesus is burning in hell.

1. I have no idea who Mary fucked; 2. I have no idea if Jesus was born in or out of wedlock; 3. There is no “hell.”

You must also agree with the zionist neocons who wish to nuke Iran and murder millions of additional people.

umm...no

My point is that Christian principles, for the most part, are the same as republican principles which we claim to be founded upon. With that said, the majority of "founders" viewed these common principles as both republican and Christian. So, technically it can be said that Christian principles do govern the nation, we just choose to look at them as strictly republican principles, even though the "founders" did not.

I find nowhere in the Bible the principles of republicanism—which is why Christianity and Judaism never developed into a republic, except with the extreme influence of enlightenment philosophy, pagan philosophy (I’m thinking of the Roman republic and Greek democracy), and a very radical interpretation of the Bible itself.

For the record, I'm not advocating a theocracy or any sort of state religion.

Thank Go--....Goodness.

Deborah, you are ignorant, and siding with the enemy. Our Lord was of the tribe of Judah, He founded the religion we call Christianity.

Judahism is not the religion of the OT. It is the religion developed by the Pharisees and expounded upon in the Talmud.

Jesus rejected the Pharisees and their anti-Biblical traditions.

Again, hear this: The Talmud says that Mary was a whore. It says that Jesus was a bastard. And it says that Jesus is burning in hell.

Look, I don’t think anyone is saying that Jesus accepted every tradition of Jewish culture; he obviously considered many of them as degenerations or polluted versions. That being said, he is also commonly viewed as having renewed the doctrines of the OT prophets; that is why you find him often echoing their words—he was, obviously, familiar with them, as he probably studied under a rabbi, and in all likelihood was a rabbi himself.

Judahism. I’m assuming you mean the direct descendents of the tribe of Judah. It is true that the Patriarchs and the history books do not reflect only this tribe, but they do in part. The Hebrews—I’m suppose you know this—being conquered by the Assyrians were left narrowed down to those living in the smaller province of Judah, Israel having been destroyed. Judah was conquered, but much of the inhabitants were sent to Babylon as slaves.

I’m not at all certain what the distinction is that you’re making between the OT and “Judahism”. It’s obvious 1. that you’re very anti-semitic, 2. That you’re bad at explaining yourself except through ranty, unclear spurts of generalization. You need to deal with both of these before you get anyone to listen to you.

 

[familydog]

Christian principles: rule of law, equality, self-determination, golden rule, will of the people, popular soverignty, natural rights, tolerance, liberty, etc.

Republican principles: rule of law, equality, self-determination, golden rule, will of the people, popular soverignty, natural rights, tolerance, liberty, etc.

Just because these principles may not have been put into practice at certain points in the history of Christinaity and the history of this republic, doesn't mean they don't exist. This is exaclty what Ron Paul preaches. We have lost our way from these principles, and we need need to go back to them.

Seems like they share the same principles to me.

 

[sophocles07]

Christian principles: rule of law, equality, self-determination, golden rule, will of the people, popular soverignty, natural rights, tolerance, liberty, etc.

Most of these are "Christian principles" only insofar as they are wrenched from a 2,000 year old text through the eyes of one living after the Enlightenment. You know I could easily interpret every text you give me the way people did until America was founded (not Republican, in other words); you are also surely aware that the Bible affords many, many anti-Republican principles I could quote (slaves, etc.).

Just because these principles may not have been put into practice at certain points in the history of Christinaity and the history of this republic, doesn't mean they don't exist. This is exaclty what Ron Paul preaches. We have lost our way from these principles, and we need need to go back to them.

It is my opinion that these principles were forced into Christian orthodoxy by free thinkers; it is not as if they were there, dormant, waiting to be renewed. The Constitution, on the other hand, WAS there, dormant, waiting to be renewed.

The fact is that you can interpret anything you want. Christianity can be taken 1,000 different ways, resulting in many, many different forms of governments. This is why I don't consider it necessary to say "Judeo-Christian principles" because these principles are largely creative interpretations by certain men, at certain points in history, with deep relation to the contemporaneous philosophical movements, and not absolute, uninterpretable "principles" that need to be renewed. Like any literary text, each age creates its own version unique to itself.

 

[yongrel]

Christian principles: rule of law, equality, self-determination, golden rule, will of the people, popular soverignty, natural rights, tolerance, liberty, etc.

Republican principles: rule of law, equality, self-determination, golden rule, will of the people, popular soverignty, natural rights, tolerance, liberty, etc.

Just because these principles may not have been put into practice at certain points in the history of Christinaity and the history of this republic, doesn't mean they don't exist. This is exaclty what Ron Paul preaches. We have lost our way from these principles, and we need need to go back to them.

Seems like they share the same principles to me.

Christian values, huh? (This is a repost)

Other fun Christian values:

GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
to show that he is Lord;
to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
to show his great power;
to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

MT 10:21 "... the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, ... children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

MT 10:35-36 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own family."

MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently).

 

[Todd]

Who cares if if was founded on judeo or karate or kung fu values?

uh..it kinda sorta matters cause the foundations of your culture will influence every decsion you make and how you view the world. The Christian religion's influence on liberal beliefs is invaluable.

See Alexis de Tocqueville's writings, and Alan Bloom's great tome The closing of the American Mind... And then read Francis Fukuyama' The End of History for a section on how Christianity has shaped the west.

 

[sophocles07]

Isn't Fukuyama a formulator of neo-conservative theory?

 

[Todd]

Isn't Fukuyama a formulator of neo-conservative theory?

Yes, but he studied more on the values of Democratic peace. I'm a recovering Neo con and apparently he detracted from the warmongering sect after the Iraq invasion. He finally woke up as I did..... But that shouldn't detract from his analysis on the origins of western democracy. There is a very informative section of his book that discusses what many of the benighted like to deny.... that western liberal ideals sprang from Christian values.

 

[sophocles07]

that western liberal ideals sprang from Christian values

I think this is a narrow, simplified interpretation. You'd have to give credit to other European philosophers, the Romans, the Greeks, etc. It's not just "Christian values." I think anyone claiming that--or denying it as an influence--are simplifying complex history.

Yeah, I heard he didn't like the Iraq invasion; still, I'm a bit nervous about trusting anything he writes/says.

 

[Deborah K]

Christian values, huh? (This is a repost)

Other fun Christian values:

yada yada yada and so on....

Yawn....Yongrel....I already told you that most of these verses pre-date Christianity as they are taken from the books of the Old Testament. Stop calling them Christian values. And stop imposing modern values and belief systems on ancient writings and customs, it's disingenuous at the very least, and makes about as much sense as blaming the descendents of slave owners for slavery.

 

[sophocles07]

Yawn....Yongrel....I already told you that most of these verses pre-date Christianity as they are taken from the books of the Old Testament. Stop calling them Christian values. And stop imposing modern values and belief systems on ancient writings and customs, it's disingenuous at the very least, and makes about as much sense as blaming the descendents of slave owners for slavery.

Then again, we can include this under the "Judeo" part of your thread title.

 

[Deborah K]

Then again, we can include this under the "Judeo" part of your thread title.

True, that's where it belongs. But as to Yongrel's argument, it does not apply.

 

[Patriot123]

America was largely founded on Christian principles, not communist judeo ones.

If you are a loyal American, and a loyal Christian, do not ever use the term "judeo-Christian". Christians believe that Jesus is Lord. judeos believe that Mary was a whore, that our Lord was a bastard, and that He is now burning in hell, as stated by their talmud.

QFT. Shame this user was banned. Probably for just speaking his damn mind on such topics as these.

You are a bigot. Nothing you write has any relevance.

That's your rebuttal to his post?

If you even read my OP you would understand that my objective is to try and quell the ridiculous notion that Judeo-Christian principles are excluded from the founding of this country. It is atheistic revisionism and based on distorted truths and outright lies. If you intend to refute the research I have provided that gives evidence to my stance on this, then do so. So far none of you geniuses have refuted it. You just put forth erroneous arguments like the above which have nothing to do with my point.

That's because they WERE excluded from the founding of this country. My G-d. So a few of the founders might have been Christian. Point is that they did not FOUND the damn nation on your damn religious beliefs. My G-d. If you want to preach such lies, do so in your church.

America was largely founded on Christian principles, not communist judeo ones.

If you are a loyal American, and a loyal Christian, do not ever use the term "judeo-Christian". Christians believe that Jesus is Lord. judeos believe that Mary was a whore, that our Lord was a bastard, and that He is now burning in hell, as stated by their talmud.

Communist, you say? Did you know that Christianity preaches killing those who are gay? Killing your wife in certain circumstances? Really. Watch your mouth. Not everyone here is Christian. Some of us our Jewish; myself for example.



I have one question. If our country was founded with Christian principles in mind, why is Christianity not mentioned in the Constitution? Why isn't it mentioned in the Bill of Rights? Why isn't it mentioned in the Declaration of Independence?