Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

Please. Please stop the stereotyping. I am defending the notion that we were founded upon Christian principles, but yet I am not "the right Evangelical Christians" you speak of. Study up on Ron Paul and maybe you will learn not to categorize people and actually treat them as individuals, especially since you don't know me. If you weren't talking about me, all the more reason to keep that collectivist crap out of here.

If commonly held principles are seen as Christian principles, as I pointed out the founders of the country did, then of course those commonly held founding principles are "Christian." Don't we talk about sticking to the original meaning of the constitution and not try to rewrite it? Maybe we should stick to what the common people of the time viewed as Christian principles, and go with that. Or would that conflict with your ideology?

My anaylsis is based on clear and concise research. I also am willing to admit that there were other influences besides Christianity on the founders as well. I pointed that out several times.

First and foremost, I'm not a racist, which you seem to be implying. I'm just simply stating that many of the Christians in this thread persist on calling America a Christian nation, which it is absolutely not. The one reason why I love this country is for the fact that it was founded neutrally, with peace and liberty and mind. And is just so happens that a large majority. if not all of the people who are doing this are Evangelical Christians. And I'm not trying to "re-write the constitution." There's nothing in the damn thing which says we're affiliated with any religion. We were founded neutrally in terms of religious beliefs, and saying that just because our society believes murder and rape are wrong that we're automatically a Christian nation is hypocrisy and you know it. Christianity did not have any affect on this nations founding. The only thing that did was the pursuit of freedom, liberty and happiness. If our founders had Christianity in mind, they would have at least had some references to Christianity or the bible in our constitution. And there is none. If there is, please point it out to me, because there quite simply is no refference.

Better yet, here. The founders were pretty intelligent men, right? We can agree on that, right? Good. The founders knew well enough what they wanted, which was freedom. Agreed? Good. So if the founders were intelligent, and wanted freedom, then they would have been intelligent enough to make some sort of refference to Christianity if their intent was to found it upon Christian principles. Christianity, Jesus, or anything of the like is not mentioned. As such, we're not a Christian nation, and were not founded upon Christian principles, but rather commonly held principles which did not belong to any religion.
 
Secular Humanism Falls Apart in the Philosophy of American Jurisprudence

Is this a blanket statement? So you think no secular thought influenced American ideals at all? Have you Christ-orgasmed the 1700s out of your brain completely?

Yes, I am saying that there is nothing in the religion of secular humanism which would set the bedrock for a nation having a constitution nor a separation of powers (which are present in American system of jurisprudence) because these ideas presuppose that mankind is fallen and imperfect due to his sinful nature, which is distinctly a Christian doctrine and understanding of man. Thus, man needs governments to protect him from other sinful creatures who would violate his God-given rights to life, liberty, and property, and each of these governments themselves (being made up of other sinful creatures) need restraints and limits to their power and jurisdictions so that God-given rights are protected and preserved. Thus, constitutions and separation of powers make sense in the Christian paradigm, and this is exactly what our Founders used as the foundation of their political thought and theory to form a republican, Constitutional form of government, derived from the Bible.

Secular humanism, on the other hand, assumes that men are basically good in nature and will continue to be good as they "evolve", and thus, it teaches that men able to make the right decisions without the law or morality of external institutions or governments. In secular humanism, men are naturally autonomous and possess the will and ability to govern themselves "freely" without coercion or instruction. Thus, in secular humanism, a constitution or separation of powers would be ridiculous because men inherently are virtuous enough to govern rightly through their use of reason and science in order to make any society a success. Of course, the French Revolution proved the philosophy of secularism to be totally false and a shameful failure.

There is no way a secular humanist living in the 1700s could have even surmised any of the tenets of a constitutional republic that has become the landmark of historic American jurisprudence because his materialistic presumptions about human nature do not comport with nor necessitate the need for men to have God-given rights protected through contractual administrations with a body of government. Once again, constitutions and separation of powers only make sense from a Christian perspective of law, government, and human nature, and one only needs to read the writings of such Founding Fathers as George Washington, John Adams, John Witherspoon, Elias Boudinot, Noah Webster, Daniel Webster, Benjamin Rush, and many others to understand this.
 
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I went through a phase where I read as many "ancient" texts as possible. Unless one can find a copy of the reptilian codice of atlantis:rolleyes::p:), we must start with the epic of gilgamish, move into the vedas and so forth...

However, all of these issues fail to disprove the OP premise of the christian bible's profound influence on modern western society. I find the denial of this to be downright silly.

I would disagree because the OP blindly states that the influence is Christian in nature and assumes that the founders did not find the same information elswhere. I took courses in the History of education and during the 1700s it was common practice for all students to read the writings of Plato. For the OP to make a point that it was the bible and ignore the other possible influences is typical christian arrogance. Silly, I think not.
 
Yes, I am saying that there is nothing in the religion of secular humanism which would set the bedrock for a nation having a constitution nor a separation of powers (which are present in American system of jurisprudence) because these ideas presuppose that mankind is fallen and imperfect due to his sinful nature, which is distinctly a Christian doctrine and understanding of man.

I’m not asking about all of this. I’m saying: no secular humanism influenced the founding of the nation? If you say no, you are a fucking idiot. Which I assume you will prove with your reply.
 
Grow Up, sophocles07

I’m not asking about all of this. I’m saying: no secular humanism influenced the founding of the nation? If you say no, you are a fucking idiot. Which I assume you will prove with your reply.

From my studies and understanding of the original writings and intent of the Founding Fathers, I would say that there is no trace of them ever relying upon the precepts of secular humanism to found our nation, not even from Thomas Jefferson nor Benjamin Franklin. My studies haven't been exhaustive, I readily admit, so if you have any evidence that would conclusively prove that secular humanism influenced any aspect of forming our constitutional republic, then I welcome you to do so.

By the way, I have to say that your personal attacks and insults against me and others on these forums who do not share your views are really immature and repulsive. How do you expect to convince anyone of your arguments when you post flagrant insults at them ere the slightest notion of indifference to your position? You've called me a "fucking idiot" for not agreeing with your unfounded claims about our Founding Fathers being secular humanists, yet who's the true idiot: the idiot, or the person who continues to argue with the idiot?
 
From my studies and understanding of the original writings and intent of the Founding Fathers, I would say that there is no trace of them ever relying upon the precepts of secular humanism to found our nation, not even from Thomas Jefferson nor Benjamin Franklin.

Then you haven’t really studied. Take Adams and Jefferson alone, read their letters. They pulled from everywhere in their reading, relying not on one book (the Bible) but on everything they could get their hands on—to take the best of all past philosophies and societies and apply it to the American system.

My studies haven't been exhaustive, I readily admit, so if you have any evidence that would conclusively prove that secular humanism influenced any aspect of forming our constitutional republic, then I welcome you to do so.

See above (Adams and Jefferson letters). Plus, Jefferson’s notes on a Virginian university, where he includes all of the current scientific bases as points of study. Jefferson was well read in every area of study, and called for everyone to be educated in every way they could be. He by no means relied strictly on the Bible as an instrument of knowledge (though he liked the ethical standards of Christ). I find it hard to believe you haven’t seen the influence of the French enlightenment (to take the most obvious example) on the revolution.

By the way, I have to say that your personal attacks and insults against me and others on these forums who do not share your views are really immature and repulsive.

I’m aware you think this and don’t care.

How do you expect to convince anyone of your arguments when you post flagrant insults at them ere the slightest notion of indifference to your position? You've called me a "fucking idiot" for not agreeing with your unfounded claims about our Founding Fathers being secular humanists, yet who's the true idiot: the idiot, or the person who continues to argue with the idiot?

I really could care less about “convincing” people of things that are BLATANTLY SO. ANYONE on here (I’m assuming about 99.999999% would already know that secular humanism, and many other worldviews, influenced the founding fathers) can find this out for themselves.
 
Religion and the Congress of the Confederation

I really could care less about “convincing” people of things that are BLATANTLY SO. ANYONE on here (I’m assuming about 99.999999% would already know that secular humanism, and many other worldviews, influenced the founding fathers) can find this out for themselves.

Hmmm, I wonder if that "99.999999%" knew anything about this.
 
Are You Devoid of Learning?

Knew about what? That our FOUNDING FATHERS were not completely devoid of LEARNING?

Yeah, that's just your opinion, sophocles07. What documents do you have to show any trace of secular humanism being inculcated in America's early days of jurisprudence from the Founders? You still haven't done that. I don't want your own opinion of the subject; just give me a link or some historic source of reference from the Founders to substantiate your claim of their influence by secular humanism. Thank you.
 
Knew that they couldn't have both religious and secular influences

Let's take from Jefferson an example of his open mindedness regarding rational thought (empiricism) and religious morality:

"The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."
-letter to Adams, 11 April 1823

"But enough of criticism: let me turn to your puzzling letter of May 12. on matter, spirit, motion etc. It's croud of scepticisms kept me from sleep. I read it, and laid it down: read it, and laid it down, again and again: and to give rest to my mind, I was obliged to recur ultimately to my habitual anodyne, 'I feel: therefore I exist.' I feel bodies which are not myself: there are other existences then. I call them matter. I feel them changing place. This gives me motion. Where there is an absence of matter, I call it void, or nothing, or immaterial space. On the basis of sensation, of matter and motion, we may erect the fabric of all the certainties we can have or need. I can conceive thought to be an action of a particular organisation of matter, formed for that purpose by it's creator, as well as that attraction in an action of matter, or magnetism of loadstone. When he who denies to the Creator the power of endowing matter with the mode of action called thinking shall shew how he could endow the Sun with the mode of action called attraction, which reins the planets in the tract of their orbits, or how an absence of matter can have a will, and, by that will, putt matter into motion, then the materialist may be lawfully required to explain the process by which matter exercises the faculty of thinking. When once we quit the basis of sensation, all is in the wind. To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But a heresy it certainly is. Jesus taught nothing of it. He told us indeed that ‘God is a spirit,’ but he has not defined what a spirit is, nor said that it is not matter. And the antient fathers generally, if not universally, held it to be matter: light and thin indeed, an etherial gas; but still matter. Origin says ‘Deus reapse corporalis est; sed graviorum tantum corporum ratione, incorporeus.’ Tertullian ‘quid enim deus nisi corpus?’ and again ‘quis negabit deum esse corpus? Etsi deus spiritus, spiritus etiam corpus est, sui generis, in sua effigie.’ St. Justin Martyr ‘to theion phamen einai asomaton, ouk hoti asomaton, --epeide de to me krateisthai hupo tinos, tou krateisthai timioteron esti, dia touto kaloumen auton asomaton.’ And St. Macarius, speaking of angels says ‘quamvis enim subtilia sint, tamen in substantia, forma et figura, secundum tenuitatem naturae eorum, corpora sunt tenuia.’ And St. Austin, St. Basil, Lactantius, Tatian, Athenagoras and others, with whose writings I pretend not a familiarity, are said by those who are, to deliver the same doctrine. Turn to your Ocellus d’Argens 97.105. and to his Timaeus 17. for these quotations. In England these Immaterialists might have been burnt until the 29. Car. 2. when the writ de haeretico comburendo was abolished: and here until the revolution, that statute not having extended to us. All heresies being now done away with us, these schismatists are merely atheists, differing from the material Atheist only in their belief that ‘nothing made something,’ and from the material deist who believes that matter alone can operate on matter.
Rejecting all organs of information but my senses, I rid myself of the Pyrrhonisms with which an indulgence in speculations hyperphysical and antiphysical so uselessly occupy and disquiet the mind. A single sense may indeed by sometimes deceived, but rarely: and never all our senses together, with their faculty of reasoning. They evidence realities; and there are enough of these for all the purposes of life, without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantoms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.” –letter to Adams, 15 August 1820, his italics

I could go on; but that’s a lot of typing already. You should read this for yourself. Suffice to say: Jefferson (and Adams and other Founders) was buried deep in a wide variety of non-Christian philosophies, and our country was founded with a complex of many, not just “Judaism/Christian” principles.
 
What's the Point?

Let's take from Jefferson an example of his open mindedness regarding rational thought (empiricism) and religious morality:

"The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors."
-letter to Adams, 11 April 1823

"But enough of criticism: let me turn to your puzzling letter of May 12. on matter, spirit, motion etc. It's croud of scepticisms kept me from sleep. I read it, and laid it down: read it, and laid it down, again and again: and to give rest to my mind, I was obliged to recur ultimately to my habitual anodyne, 'I feel: therefore I exist.' I feel bodies which are not myself: there are other existences then. I call them matter. I feel them changing place. This gives me motion. Where there is an absence of matter, I call it void, or nothing, or immaterial space. On the basis of sensation, of matter and motion, we may erect the fabric of all the certainties we can have or need. I can conceive thought to be an action of a particular organisation of matter, formed for that purpose by it's creator, as well as that attraction in an action of matter, or magnetism of loadstone. When he who denies to the Creator the power of endowing matter with the mode of action called thinking shall shew how he could endow the Sun with the mode of action called attraction, which reins the planets in the tract of their orbits, or how an absence of matter can have a will, and, by that will, putt matter into motion, then the materialist may be lawfully required to explain the process by which matter exercises the faculty of thinking. When once we quit the basis of sensation, all is in the wind. To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But a heresy it certainly is. Jesus taught nothing of it. He told us indeed that ‘God is a spirit,’ but he has not defined what a spirit is, nor said that it is not matter. And the antient fathers generally, if not universally, held it to be matter: light and thin indeed, an etherial gas; but still matter. Origin says ‘Deus reapse corporalis est; sed graviorum tantum corporum ratione, incorporeus.’ Tertullian ‘quid enim deus nisi corpus?’ and again ‘quis negabit deum esse corpus? Etsi deus spiritus, spiritus etiam corpus est, sui generis, in sua effigie.’ St. Justin Martyr ‘to theion phamen einai asomaton, ouk hoti asomaton, --epeide de to me krateisthai hupo tinos, tou krateisthai timioteron esti, dia touto kaloumen auton asomaton.’ And St. Macarius, speaking of angels says ‘quamvis enim subtilia sint, tamen in substantia, forma et figura, secundum tenuitatem naturae eorum, corpora sunt tenuia.’ And St. Austin, St. Basil, Lactantius, Tatian, Athenagoras and others, with whose writings I pretend not a familiarity, are said by those who are, to deliver the same doctrine. Turn to your Ocellus d’Argens 97.105. and to his Timaeus 17. for these quotations. In England these Immaterialists might have been burnt until the 29. Car. 2. when the writ de haeretico comburendo was abolished: and here until the revolution, that statute not having extended to us. All heresies being now done away with us, these schismatists are merely atheists, differing from the material Atheist only in their belief that ‘nothing made something,’ and from the material deist who believes that matter alone can operate on matter.
Rejecting all organs of information but my senses, I rid myself of the Pyrrhonisms with which an indulgence in speculations hyperphysical and antiphysical so uselessly occupy and disquiet the mind. A single sense may indeed by sometimes deceived, but rarely: and never all our senses together, with their faculty of reasoning. They evidence realities; and there are enough of these for all the purposes of life, without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantoms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence.” –letter to Adams, 15 August 1820, his italics

I could go on; but that’s a lot of typing already. You should read this for yourself. Suffice to say: Jefferson (and Adams and other Founders) was buried deep in a wide variety of non-Christian philosophies, and our country was founded with a complex of many, not just “Judaism/Christian” principles.

This is just autobiography. It proves nothing about how Thomas Jefferson inculcated secular humanism into any part of early American jurisprudence. Besides, you don't even have the full text of the letters, so I don't even know if you're quoting Jefferson in proper context. Where is the rest of his letter to John Adams? Do try harder, sophocles07.
 
This is just autobiography. It proves nothing about how Thomas Jefferson inculcated secular humanism into any part of early American jurisprudence. Besides, you don't even have the full text of the letters, so I don't even know if you're quoting Jefferson in proper context. Where is the rest of his letter to John Adams? Do try harder, sophocles07.

I just typed out the relevant part of a very long letter. I gave the source of the letter...so you could go read the whole thing if you wanted. You might also want to read 9 April 1803 to Dr. Joseph Priestley (from Jefferson), and 21 April 1803 to Dr. Benjamin Rush (from Jefferson). Both deal directly with Jesus and morality. Are you really calling for me to type out 5 pages of small printed letters instead of you doing your own work and picking up said book? (I’m typing this from a copy of the Works of Jefferson, not copying from the internet, so I didn’t purposely omit the letter; I would have linked you had I a link.) I’m not sure what you mean by “just autobiography”...Take a look at Query XVII from Jefferson’s “Notes on the State of Virginia” subtitled “The different religions received into that state?”—the topic being Religious Freedom. I’m not exactly sure what you’re wanting here; it is clear that the thought of the Founders, and particularly Jefferson, determined the way in which the laws and rights were set up in the nation, including prominently, as Jefferson puts it, their take on “religious slavery” to which point he states: “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” (Query XVII).

By the way, I love how you chide me for not “trying hard” enough when you have evidently not even attempted to read the writings of the Founders (or those which do not appear on Christian websites). I admit both Christian and secular/pagan/other sources of the country; you apparently do not; you claim it all for your own narrow sect...which is blatantly not the case.
 
First and foremost, I'm not a racist, which you seem to be implying. I'm just simply stating that many of the Christians in this thread persist on calling America a Christian nation, which it is absolutely not. The one reason why I love this country is for the fact that it was founded neutrally, with peace and liberty and mind. And is just so happens that a large majority. if not all of the people who are doing this are Evangelical Christians. And I'm not trying to "re-write the constitution." There's nothing in the damn thing which says we're affiliated with any religion. We were founded neutrally in terms of religious beliefs, and saying that just because our society believes murder and rape are wrong that we're automatically a Christian nation is hypocrisy and you know it. Christianity did not have any affect on this nations founding. The only thing that did was the pursuit of freedom, liberty and happiness. If our founders had Christianity in mind, they would have at least had some references to Christianity or the bible in our constitution. And there is none. If there is, please point it out to me, because there quite simply is no refference.

Better yet, here. The founders were pretty intelligent men, right? We can agree on that, right? Good. The founders knew well enough what they wanted, which was freedom. Agreed? Good. So if the founders were intelligent, and wanted freedom, then they would have been intelligent enough to make some sort of refference to Christianity if their intent was to found it upon Christian principles. Christianity, Jesus, or anything of the like is not mentioned. As such, we're not a Christian nation, and were not founded upon Christian principles, but rather commonly held principles which did not belong to any religion.

First of all, I didn't call you or anyone racist. Nor did I imply anyone being racist. I didn't even mention the word race or make reference to race anywhere so I have no idea what you're talking about there.

Second of all, you seem to be confusing a Christian nation with a Christian state. Read Ernest Renan's lecture "What is a nation?" and you still see what I mean when I say this is a Christian nation.
http://www.tamilnation.org/selfdetermination/nation/renan.htm
If you can find a better explanation of a nation, and explain why this is not a Christian nation based on that explanation, I'd like to hear it. I'm open to other interpretations.

Third, you don't even address any of the points I made earlier on why I think we were founded on Christian principles, among other non religious principles. Do you want me to type it all over again? Or should I copy and paste, the ball is in your court.
 
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This is just autobiography. It proves nothing about how Thomas Jefferson inculcated secular humanism into any part of early American jurisprudence. Besides, you don't even have the full text of the letters, so I don't even know if you're quoting Jefferson in proper context. Where is the rest of his letter to John Adams? Do try harder, sophocles07.


http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_adams.html
 
I would disagree because the OP blindly states that the influence is Christian in nature and assumes that the founders did not find the same information elswhere. I took courses in the History of education and during the 1700s it was common practice for all students to read the writings of Plato. For the OP to make a point that it was the bible and ignore the other possible influences is typical christian arrogance. Silly, I think not.

This is why I keep using the Atlantean reference. One could go in circles for the rest of time and still not prove anything one way or the other with some of the arguments I am seeing presented. The fact remains that the christian bible is the most quoted source in the writings of the FF, by a large margin.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The OP did not state that the bible was the only source. She is arguing that the country was founded on judeo-christian principals, primarily ; that the christian bible played a large part in the philosophical musings of the FFs. That is a no brainer to me and I am amazed at the lengths people seem to go to deny the obvious. Since we emerged from the dark ages, the bible has been the primary influence in the western world, including the colonists and FFs. While there were certainly other philosophies that would have influenced any serious thinker of the time, the counter arguments presented here have done nothing to address the overwhemling evidence backing up the OPs premise. IMO
 
http://www.rense.com/general74/zzpo.htm

The Christians in the early Colonies saw firsthand the attempts of King George (a government) to dictate religion and it backfired in the face of King George.

I have had to address that matter many times and it is a subject that I am well versed on and well read.

Most Americans do not know what actually started the Revolutionary War. Due to how they teach history in our schools as History Lite, most think it has something to do with a Boston Tea Party but that was miniscule compared to what lit the fire of freedom in our Nation.

Between the years 1700 to 1776 people moved to the Colonies from all over Europe to escape religious persecution at the hands of the European monarchies that fashioned themselves gods or God's spokesman on Earth. There were Mennonites and Amish from Germany and Switzerland, Heugonots from France, Presbyterians and Episcopalians from England that separated from the Church of England, etc. There were many Scottish people who differed with the Church of England and came to America as there were Irish for the same basic reasons. Many Lutherans left Germany due to growing clashes and wars between Catholicism and Lutheranism.

Most Americans do not realize that there was no unified Germany prior to 1871. Prior to that time it was an endless clash between Prussia and the German states and even the Hapsburgs of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Many got tired of the wars and left, including my great grandfather when yet another Prussian * German war loomed on the horizon.

Before becoming an Ecumenical Christian, I started off in life as a Lutheran.

The Puritans derived their name because they wanted to purify the Anglican Church of England as being corrupted by the royals of England. The Quakers has huge clashes with the Church of England prompting them to move to the Colonies to seek religious freedom.

King George, much like our George Bush, was an arrogant man who was quite out of touch with his subjects, especially those in the American Colonies.

He took it upon himself to issue a string of edicts as his self-proclaimed role as God's spokesman of the British Empire and those edicts were Church of England directives to the Colonists. The Colonists were ordered that the only religion they could practice was the Anglican doctrine of the Church of England as proscribed by King George.

His pronouncements were a non-event in the Colonies and that hacked off King George. He had a George Bush temper tantrum. For over 70 years of religious independence and a growing revivalism of Christianity on our shores, that spark started a forest fire that propelled Americans to complete independence.

They must not have had polls or demographics between the years of 1700 to 1776 because what happened over time was there were many people in the Colonies that had escaped other kings and tyrants, had never been a subject of the British Crown and when King George uttered his pronouncements they could not care less what he thought or had to say. They were not going to let King George (the government) infringe on their right of religious freedom.

The mood of America between 1700 to 1776 steadily grew into the hearts and minds of the Colonists that the values of the British monarchs had nothing to do with the values of those who came to America. If that strikes a chord in you as being relevant to the current times and debacles we find America in that is a good thing.

They had never been subjects of British royalty, had never answered to them and had no intentions of doing so while living in the Colonies.

They called the movement, period, phenomenon The Great Awakening and it was a period of time when religious persecution had driven millions from Europe to the Colonies. Millions were tortured and killed in Europe for having independent minds on religious matters. Once here, they intended to never be subjugated by religious tyranny ever again. Once these people were in America, they focused on religion and freedom in ways many of them had never known and that included building their churches and revivalism of Christianity.

In short, it was the Christians that drew the line in the sand that caused the formation of the United States of America and the primary issue was religious freedom.
 
Jefferson Was Not a Secular Humanist

I just typed out the relevant part of a very long letter. I gave the source of the letter...so you could go read the whole thing if you wanted. You might also want to read 9 April 1803 to Dr. Joseph Priestley (from Jefferson), and 21 April 1803 to Dr. Benjamin Rush (from Jefferson). Both deal directly with Jesus and morality. Are you really calling for me to type out 5 pages of small printed letters instead of you doing your own work and picking up said book? (I’m typing this from a copy of the Works of Jefferson, not copying from the internet, so I didn’t purposely omit the letter; I would have linked you had I a link.) I’m not sure what you mean by “just autobiography”...Take a look at Query XVII from Jefferson’s “Notes on the State of Virginia” subtitled “The different religions received into that state?”—the topic being Religious Freedom. I’m not exactly sure what you’re wanting here; it is clear that the thought of the Founders, and particularly Jefferson, determined the way in which the laws and rights were set up in the nation, including prominently, as Jefferson puts it, their take on “religious slavery” to which point he states: “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” (Query XVII).

By the way, I love how you chide me for not “trying hard” enough when you have evidently not even attempted to read the writings of the Founders (or those which do not appear on Christian websites). I admit both Christian and secular/pagan/other sources of the country; you apparently do not; you claim it all for your own narrow sect...which is blatantly not the case.

I've read the letters you've mentioned, and I still find nothing in them which would give conclusive evidence that Thomas Jefferson was a secular humanist. His main issue with the Christian Church of his time was basically his disagreements with the nature of the spiritual realm and miracles. Agreeably, Jefferson was a materialist. These beliefs of his put him outside the teachings of mainstream Christendom of America, but nonetheless, Jefferson was no fool. He still believed in a God that was active in the creation of the world, unlike the god of the deists. Just read his Declaration of Independence, and you'll see this. Jefferson also drafted his own version of the Bible, and he even considered himself a Christian, not a secular humanist.

In a letter written to Dr. Benjamin Rush on April 21, 1803, Thomas Jefferson described his views on Jesus and Christianity, as well as his own beliefs. He appended to this description a Syllabus that compared the teachings of Jesus to those of the earlier Greek and Roman philosophers, and to the religion of the Jews of Jesus' time. The letter reads as follows:

DEAR SIR,

In some of the delightful conversations with you in the evenings of 1798-99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other. At the short interval since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs, the subject has been under my contemplation. But the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. In the moment of my late departure from Monticello, I received from Dr. Priestley his little treatise of "Socrates and Jesus Compared." This being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection while on the road and unoccupied otherwise. The result was, to arrange in my mind a syllabus or outline of such an estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity as I wished to see executed by someone of more leisure and information for the task than myself. This I now send you as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. And in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make every word from me a text for new misrepresentations and calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public, because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that inquisition over the rights of conscience which the laws have so justly proscribed. It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. It behooves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion, by answering questions of faith which the laws have left between God and himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.

Th: Jefferson
(emphasis mine)

Though I would greatly disagree with Jefferson on many of his opinions about Christianity, my point is simply to show you that he was no secular humanist, as you seem wont to make him. But even acknowledging that Jefferson was probably the least religious of the Founding Fathers, he is still, in no wise, the final authority in matters of the Christian influence upon American jurisprudence. The majority of the Founders were heavily influenced by Christianity, being believers themselves, and Deborah K has done an excellent job in proving this in this forum thread. But suffice it to say, Jefferson never claimed to be a secular humanist, nor a deist.
 
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