War Makes sense, America doesn't...and I miss the war...

[Uriel999]

This may be a thread only vets can understand, but I am putting this out there because perhaps it is some mental therapy but it is where am I at and I think it is interesting...at least to me anyways.

I am an Infantry 0311 Marine. I got back from Afghanistan about a month ago. So far readjusting has not been too difficult really. I go to work, I workout, I drink some beer and I have truly enjoyed the time relaxing with family and friends though that has been too short. However, the holidays are coming and I even get to meet my new baby niece which I look very forward to.

However, it is all just somewhat equally underwhelming and overwhelming. You come back and it's great, you get some beer, good food for the first time in months, and you see the loved ones you miss.

However, and I realized this over in Afghanistan that America is jacked up. Bundy Ranch, Ferguson, just off my head. Bundy Ranch happened right before I deployed but was still ongoing when I left. I honestly thought about going UA (unaccounted absence) before I left to go to Bundy. So many things happening. I am still trying to catch up. But seriously, wtf America!?

Over in Afghanistan it made sense. There was Taliban, and there was us. All the Afghan people to include the ANA hated us and couldn't be trusted. Sure our ROE's endangered us, but I can happily say I will never have to live the death of a woman or child on my mind despite the Taliban using them to try to kill us. The Taliban told their women and children to throw rocks at our vehicles on patrol hoping we would dismount and they could fire at us.

One strange incident that occurred over there. This left a profound and lasting effect on me that I believe shows how we have effected their country. Towards the end of the deployment we moved into the last phase for the USMC over there. During that phase we were in a defensive posture only no longer sending out long range patrols, just ones close to base to establish a presence. At any rate my company was tasked with standing post and having "scrapper" vehicles just outside the base to keep the "scrappers" Afghan locals that took whatever trash, scraps, and pieces from our defenses they could steal. At any rate, one day while I was on scrapper some damned kids on a motorcycle stole the hedgehog from outside the serpentine that led to our gate. A hedgehog is like a giant jack you played with as a kid along with marbles. It probably weighed around 200 lbs. At 1000 meters out there was a big berm that they were struggling to get over so we rolled up there, made our weapons condition one (round in chamber, magazine loaded, weapon on safe) and they started throwing rocks at us like normal. At any rate, I was initially having fun with it and being nice. They threw rocks and I tried using my m16 as a baseball bat to hit the oncoming rocks. They were kids not combatants, not to mention we didn't have non-lethal capabilities at that time as a fluke (we typically did actually, 12 guage flashbang rounds, or m203 grenade launcher 40mm sponge rounds).

So they keep throwing rocks and here was the craziest thing. We are 2 weeks from leaving mind you...a kid around 14-16 yells at me and my buddy, "fuck you, go home" in the most perfect American English you can imagine. No accent whatsoever...Wow, that is it. That is the one damned thing we taught them...how to cuss at us in English...

It is weird though, I miss it over there in that misery at war. I hate the long hours, the heat, the cold, the crappy food, etc. It is a very weird thing to hear shots fired and know somebody is actively trying to kill you or your friends. You learn the distinction of how close a round is from the crack or the wizz. Then there is the telling stories with buddies back and forth afterwards. However, I found a weird calmness, a coolness, not necessarily anger, maybe not even adrenaline, but I felt something when being shot at. I felt alive. I miss it. I really do, it seems like insanity to miss fighting for your life but it seems simpler. It makes sense. Even with dumb ROE's that make things more dangerous.

It is a cognizant disconnect with my philosophical ideals, I really miss it and want to go back to war...Why? Is war just simply the nature of man? Are we smart enough to realize the folly of man only to accept it?

 

[RJB]

Join the volunteer fire department if you're in a somewhat rural area. You get the camaraderie and a bit of danger and you get thanked for it.

 

[Pericles]

War can offer a tremendous amount of clarity and focus. There is you, your buddies, and a few other good people. There are the bad people. You protect the good people and kill the bad people - it seems so simple. having survived going in harm's way, everything else seems trivial. Some guys get hooked on the rush from going into danger and coming back alive, so they keep doing more dangerous things .... for the greater rush - just like any other addict. Don't be one of those guys. Put the experience in a box, and put the box on the shelf in the closet.

Every once in a while, take the box down and open it. Then put it back.

Welcome back to the land of the round door knobs, Marine.

 

[Anti Federalist]

War can offer a tremendous amount of clarity and focus. There is you, your buddies, and a few other good people. There are the bad people. You protect the good people and kill the bad people - it seems so simple. having survived going in harm's way, everything else seems trivial. Some guys get hooked on the rush from going into danger and coming back alive, so they keep doing more dangerous things .... for the greater rush - just like any other addict. Don't be one of those guys. Put the experience in a box, and put the box on the shelf in the closet.

Every once in a while, take the box down and open it. Then put it back.

Welcome back to the land of the round door knobs, Marine.

Could not have said it better myself.

This is sage advice.

Take it to heart, brother.

 

[Anti Federalist]

However, and I realized this over in Afghanistan that America is jacked up.

Yes, yes it is, especially for boys and young men.

It's no wonder so many are on prescription happy pills.

Adversity makes men.

Prosperity makes monsters.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

This may be a thread only vets can understand, but I am putting this out there because perhaps it is some mental therapy but it is where am I at and I think it is interesting...at least to me anyways.

I am an Infantry 0311 Marine. I got back from Afghanistan about a month ago. So far readjusting has not been too difficult really. I go to work, I workout, I drink some beer and I have truly enjoyed the time relaxing with family and friends though that has been too short. However, the holidays are coming and I even get to meet my new baby niece which I look very forward to.

However, it is all just somewhat equally underwhelming and overwhelming. You come back and it's great, you get some beer, good food for the first time in months, and you see the loved ones you miss.

However, and I realized this over in Afghanistan that America is jacked up. Bundy Ranch, Ferguson, just off my head. Bundy Ranch happened right before I deployed but was still ongoing when I left. I honestly thought about going UA (unaccounted absence) before I left to go to Bundy. So many things happening. I am still trying to catch up. But seriously, wtf America!?

Over in Afghanistan it made sense. There was Taliban, and there was us. All the Afghan people to include the ANA hated us and couldn't be trusted. Sure our ROE's endangered us, but I can happily say I will never have to live the death of a woman or child on my mind despite the Taliban using them to try to kill us. The Taliban told their women and children to throw rocks at our vehicles on patrol hoping we would dismount and they could fire at us.

One strange incident that occurred over there. This left a profound and lasting effect on me that I believe shows how we have effected their country. Towards the end of the deployment we moved into the last phase for the USMC over there. During that phase we were in a defensive posture only no longer sending out long range patrols, just ones close to base to establish a presence. At any rate my company was tasked with standing post and having "scrapper" vehicles just outside the base to keep the "scrappers" Afghan locals that took whatever trash, scraps, and pieces from our defenses they could steal. At any rate, one day while I was on scrapper some damned kids on a motorcycle stole the hedgehog from outside the serpentine that led to our gate. A hedgehog is like a giant jack you played with as a kid along with marbles. It probably weighed around 200 lbs. At 1000 meters out there was a big berm that they were struggling to get over so we rolled up there, made our weapons condition one (round in chamber, magazine loaded, weapon on safe) and they started throwing rocks at us like normal. At any rate, I was initially having fun with it and being nice. They threw rocks and I tried using my m16 as a baseball bat to hit the oncoming rocks. They were kids not combatants, not to mention we didn't have non-lethal capabilities at that time as a fluke (we typically did actually, 12 guage flashbang rounds, or m203 grenade launcher 40mm sponge rounds).

So they keep throwing rocks and here was the craziest thing. We are 2 weeks from leaving mind you...a kid around 14-16 yells at me and my buddy, "fuck you, go home" in the most perfect American English you can imagine. No accent whatsoever...Wow, that is it. That is the one damned thing we taught them...how to cuss at us in English...

It is weird though, I miss it over there in that misery at war. I hate the long hours, the heat, the cold, the crappy food, etc. It is a very weird thing to hear shots fired and know somebody is actively trying to kill you or your friends. You learn the distinction of how close a round is from the crack or the wizz. Then there is the telling stories with buddies back and forth afterwards. However, I found a weird calmness, a coolness, not necessarily anger, maybe not even adrenaline, but I felt something when being shot at. I felt alive. I miss it. I really do, it seems like insanity to miss fighting for your life but it seems simpler. It makes sense. Even with dumb ROE's that make things more dangerous.

It is a cognizant disconnect with my philosophical ideals, I really miss it and want to go back to war...Why? Is war just simply the nature of man? Are we smart enough to realize the folly of man only to accept it?

The heaviest burden laying on every American of conscience right now, is "what is good, and what is bad?" War is hell, but in war at least that question is easy. Good is in here. Bad is out there. Them/Us. You don't have to figure it all out for yourself. You go. You do. You make shyt happen.

The aliveness, it was the same with my stepfather who was a Ranger in Vietnam. He tried to go back for a third tour and they wouldn't let him.

That is what you were asking for, when it was time to be careful what it was you were asking for. The combat salt to put up in a box, stow it away with the bug-out bag, and only pull it out in the event of an emergency. "In case of emergency, break glass" You went there to create that man, now that he is created, and ready, may the old man now find new life in that security in which to grow more bold and alive than ever before.

Welcome back to the real world Devil Dog. You are now ready for whatever the hell it decides to throw at you. With full hope and all prayers that the box will never actually be needed, rest secure and comfortable in the fact that it always exists right there where you can get to it.

Pericles said it best of all. I've never actually been to war, so I can only rely on my own understanding having had no witness.

 

[oyarde]

Leave it in the box until you need it . You will know when . Many will not until it is too late .

 

[Christian Liberty]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/laurence-m-vance/

 

[Anti Federalist]

////

 

[acptulsa]

Afghanistan is simple. The enemy cusses you and throws rocks at you. It isn't a case where there is an enemy, and they pose a clear and present danger to you and those you love, but they're posing as good guys and they're fooling most of your buddies and loved ones into believing that's what they are. And no one ever denies that a real problem is a real problem.

Back home, it's a bit more complicated. But try to enjoy it anyway

 

[Uriel999]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/laurence-m-vance/

your blind naivety shields you from understanding the thoughts of those that have done and seen more than you. In many ways you do represent the Christian you would like to be as the bible advocates thinking like a child...That is because once you grow up you realize the world doesn't have absolutes. It is a gray, shady place where idealism has no place in reality. Keep your dreams alive but understand while you have sat at home fat and happy I have trained my mind and body for something greater.

Was Afghan the good fight? The right fight? No it was a complete waste, and I don't know anybody that over there believed in it, but we fought regardless. The Afghan people are feral anyways. There is no loss to world when an Afghan dies. These are people that culturally accept molestation of not only their children but their livestock. Yes, that is an every day occurrence. I don't care about their man love Thursdays as that is at least consensual, but these are a disgusting people. Then again somebody on this forum will tell me that camel and goat fucking is perfectly acceptable if you own the animal because freedom...

 

[Christian Liberty]

your blind naivety shields you from understanding the thoughts of those that have done and seen more than you. In many ways you do represent the Christian you would like to be as the bible advocates thinking like a child...That is because once you grow up you realize the world doesn't have absolutes. It is a gray, shady place where idealism has no place in reality. Keep your dreams alive but understand while you have sat at home fat and happy I have trained my mind and body for something greater.

Was Afghan the good fight? The right fight? No it was a complete waste, and I don't know anybody that over there believed in it, but we fought regardless. The Afghan people are feral anyways. There is no loss to world when an Afghan dies. These are people that culturally accept molestation of not only their children but their livestock. Yes, that is an every day occurrence. I don't care about their man love Thursdays as that is at least consensual, but these are a disgusting people. Then again somebody on this forum will tell me that camel and goat fucking is perfectly acceptable if you own the animal because freedom...

You had no business being over there.

I'm no expert but it seems to me that a person who "misses war" needs help. All the more disgusting that you say the world loses nothing when a man who was made in God's image dies. I wouldn't even say that when an American hired killer dies...

 

[UWDude]

your blind naivety shields you from understanding the thoughts of those that have done and seen more than you. In many ways you do represent the Christian you would like to be as the bible advocates thinking like a child...That is because once you grow up you realize the world doesn't have absolutes. It is a gray, shady place where idealism has no place in reality. Keep your dreams alive but understand while you have sat at home fat and happy I have trained my mind and body for something greater.

Was Afghan the good fight? The right fight? No it was a complete waste, and I don't know anybody that over there believed in it, but we fought regardless. The Afghan people are feral anyways. There is no loss to world when an Afghan dies. These are people that culturally accept molestation of not only their children but their livestock. Yes, that is an every day occurrence. I don't care about their man love Thursdays as that is at least consensual, but these are a disgusting people. Then again somebody on this forum will tell me that camel and goat fucking is perfectly acceptable if you own the animal because freedom...

They are feral because they have been fighting to keep their land to themselves for centuries. Afghanistan is probably one of the most war torn nations on the face of the earth.

You are now ready for whatever the hell it decides to throw at you.

Sounds neat, but isn't true. Nobody is ready when city hall starts to harass them.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And that, right there, is why militarized are such a bad idea.

The heaviest burden laying on every American of conscience right now, is "what is good, and what is bad?" War is hell, but in war at least that question is easy. Good is in here. Bad is out there. Them/Us. You don't have to figure it all out for yourself. You go. You do. You make shyt happen.

The aliveness, it was the same with my stepfather who was a Ranger in Vietnam. He tried to go back for a third tour and they wouldn't let him.

That is what you were asking for, when it was time to be careful what it was you were asking for. The combat salt to put up in a box, stow it away with the bug-out bag, and only pull it out in the event of an emergency. "In case of emergency, break glass" You went there to create that man, now that he is created, and ready, may the old man now find new life in that security in which to grow more bold and alive than ever before.

Welcome back to the real world Devil Dog. You are now ready for whatever the hell it decides to throw at you. With full hope and all prayers that the box will never actually be needed, rest secure and comfortable in the fact that it always exists right there where you can get to it.

Pericles said it best of all. I've never actually been to war, so I can only rely on my own understanding having had no witness.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

your blind naivety shields you from understanding the thoughts of those that have done and seen more than you. In many ways you do represent the Christian you would like to be as the bible advocates thinking like a child...That is because once you grow up you realize the world doesn't have absolutes. It is a gray, shady place where idealism has no place in reality. Keep your dreams alive but understand while you have sat at home fat and happy I have trained my mind and body for something greater.

Was Afghan the good fight? The right fight? No it was a complete waste, and I don't know anybody that over there believed in it, but we fought regardless. The Afghan people are feral anyways. There is no loss to world when an Afghan dies. These are people that culturally accept molestation of not only their children but their livestock. Yes, that is an every day occurrence. I don't care about their man love Thursdays as that is at least consensual, but these are a disgusting people. Then again somebody on this forum will tell me that camel and goat fucking is perfectly acceptable if you own the animal because freedom...

ETA: The people there did not ask you to come there. The families of those killed cry the same as your family would if it were you that was left in Afghanistan. Your mentality is that of a conquered mind. You cannot cope with what happened without considering those there savages and the like. It is intentional in the words they use, the mentality of the pack coming up with their various slurs and justifications, and the training you received. Truly sad.

Do you have any idea what Kabul looked like before the benevolence of the world was bestowed upon it? Are you aware of the customs of the region?

You can spout that simpler times, greater meaning nonsense until Judgement Day, you aren't fooling me on how it was and how you feel, whatsoever. And to those that promote or glorify this evil, tsk, tsk. You speak of culture.... what of this?

 

[Uriel999]

You had no business being over there.

I'm no expert but it seems to me that a person who "misses war" needs help. All the more disgusting that you say the world loses nothing when a man who was made in God's image dies. I wouldn't even say that when an American hired killer dies...

I never claimed we did, but we went because we were told to. You don't get it, and that is okay.

They are feral because they have been fighting to keep their land to themselves for centuries. Afghanistan is probably one of the most war torn nations on the face of the earth.



Sounds neat, but isn't true. Nobody is ready when city hall starts to harass them.

I respect the fighter, I don't respect the child molester and animal humper.

ETA: The people there did not ask you to come there. The families of those killed cry the same as your family would if it were you that was left in Afghanistan. Your mentality is that of a conquered mind. You cannot cope with what happened without considering those there savages and the like. It is intentional in the words they use, the mentality of the pack coming up with their various slurs and justifications, and the training you received. Truly sad.

Do you have any idea what Kabul looked like before the benevolence of the world was bestowed upon it? Are you aware of the customs of the region?

You can spout that simpler times, greater meaning nonsense until Judgement Day, you aren't fooling me on how it was and how you feel, whatsoever. And to those that promote or glorify this evil, tsk, tsk. You speak of culture.... what of this?

I never saw Kabul so I cannot speak of it either way. I have seen the pictures of it before the Taliban had taken it though, women in skirts, education, etc.

I'm familiar enough with the customs of the region. I don't spout about anything great. You don't know how it was. Who said I promoted anything.

I'm just a guy giving my insight as to what I saw, and what I have thought and feel about it. Am I blunt, jaded, and finding myself with some interesting thoughts I didn't think I'd have...yup. However, judge me all you want. I don't care.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

I never saw Kabul so I cannot speak of it either way. I have seen the pictures of it before the Taliban had taken it though, women in skirts, education, etc.

I'm familiar enough with the customs of the region. I don't spout about anything great. You don't know how it was. Who said I promoted anything.

I'm just a guy giving my insight as to what I saw, and what I have thought and feel about it. Am I blunt, jaded, and finding myself with some interesting thoughts I didn't think I'd have...yup. However, judge me all you want. I don't care.

My point isn't so much as to judge your relatively mild and jaded views on Afghanistan compared to what many have as it is to simply express my amazement that such views are put up on pedestals and the people who hold them are given ovations and precedent over those that stayed in a productive sector while barely surviving in their own right (of course, many didn't have bullets flying at them on the continual basis as those there did, but still).

I understand why you are jaded, I do not need to have gone to know this. Same with being blunt. And I generally know what went on over there enough so that even without it happening to me, or as the result of me, I am not bashful on speaking of it.

Read. Work out. Spend time with family. Be productive. Find something that you're passionate about and devote yourself to it. Don't be like many of your other brethren who come back to welcoming police employment as they view the citizens here as Hajjis in their quest for adrenaline.

Being there as you have, I hope you will tell those thinking of joining up to reconsider. Maybe not quite yet, though.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I never claimed we did, but we went because we were told to. You don't get it, and that is okay.

So you were an amoral sheep who "just followed orders" and used the Nuremberg defense rather than obeying God over man?

Sorry... no respect here. I don't "get it." I care about morals too much.

 

[Uriel999]

So you were an amoral sheep who "just followed orders" and used the Nuremberg defense rather than obeying God over man?

Sorry... no respect here. I don't "get it." I care about morals too much.

The you don't get it refers to the desire for whatever reason to be back there. You couldn't possibly understand it since I don't even really know why. You can only get it though, if you get it.

You seem to think morals are absolute. I hate to break it to you but morals are relative. So are gods.

I've come to realize that philosophical ideals are great to have, they are something to strive for. However, in the real world they are nothing more than hopes and dreams. You want it all. But you will NEVER win if you try to get everything all at once. The communists of the early 20th century wanted to see the US turn red. They realized that unlike Russia there would be no great revolution. So they started everything slowly. By slowly picking away at the country our country is now at the precipice of actually going full blown socialist without even hiding it. Those dead actually genius in their implementation of our servitude/slavery have almost realized their dream knowing they would never live to see it. That is a strategy we have implement. David could not build your gods temple because of the blood on his hands. That is the biblical story anyways.

I was young and idealistic once. We all fight for something. I fought because I knew this country could become a battlefield. Not because of the Afghan people, they are irrelevant. But it was a fight I chose to join because I forged the knowledge and relationships that may sadly be needed here. Perhaps I became corrupted because of it, but when we were out there, we didn't fight for country, we didn't fight because we believed in the war, we fought for each other. That perhaps is the greatest lesson of war. Since you brought up Germany, do you really think those men fought for anything different? I know your going to probably smugly link to that article on Lew Rockwell about the German soldier, but I promise you the world is not black and white, it is gray. Very very grey.

I don't need your approval. What I need is knowledge and skills to be able to fight back here because that may be needed. I ask you, how much did you donate to Ron Paul in the 2008 and 2012 elections? How many people did you try to educate and bring to the liberty movement? These are rhetorical questions that you need only answer yourself. I have faith and confidence that you did your best. That is all one can ask.

I don't see myself as a hero, or as a "hired killer" as you insinuated. If that is what you believe I am so be it. I tell you though, one day you may be required to bring up arms against another American. I fear that day and hope it doesn't happen, however, those that make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. I consider myself among the "preppers." Enlisting was a 5 year prep. My journey within the military is coming to its end. My start with the militia begins when that end comes to fruition.

In fact, what I truly hope is that you never ever have to do is snap in on a man, woman or child and know that you may be tasked with taking the shot. I at great risk avoided a shot I should have taken on a motorcycle that had a man (most likely a spotter that was testing if we would fire or not) and a woman come within feet of our convoy and rode right past us. We had intel that the locals had a motorcycle armed with explosives. A motorcycle that was armed with explosives later hit two vehicles in our convey. Was it them? I will never know. It is something I get to question the rest of my life. Perhaps I should have taken the shot. Perhaps I just saved the lives of a man and his wife just trying to bug out of the situation. I will hope it was just that. War has consequences.

I truly believe the US is the next war front. When I get out and move to were I plan to live, guess what. You are only 200 miles away (I googled from were you say you located). What if there comes a day I am your squad leader trying to protect Purcellville's 1st Freedom Battalion from UN forces trying to establish control? Would you follow and trust me then?

Afghan war veterans are not your enemy. In fact, many many veterans are here on this forum. We may not be ancaps, we may not even necessarily be libertarians, but we share similar ideals. If the infighting does not stop this movement will never be more than a collection of fringe movements trying to accomplish everything and ending up accomplishing nothing. At the end of the day I am just a guy that doesn't have all the answers, doesn't care to have them and really just wants the freedom to be left alone to do as I desire.

 

[UWDude]

I truly believe the US is the next war front. When I get out and move to were I plan to live, guess what. You are only 200 miles away (I googled from were you say you located). What if there comes a day I am your squad leader trying to protect Purcellville's 1st Freedom Battalion from UN forces trying to establish control? Would you follow and trust me then?

This will not happen. Nobody is ready to die in America for ideals. Nobody cares, and they just want to feel safe. Even if it means behind bars.

If the infighting does not stop this movement will never be more than a collection of fringe movements trying to accomplish everything and ending up accomplishing nothing.

"organizing libertarians is like trying to herd cats"