[Video] Why Islam Is The Anti Christ

[PierzStyx]

How do you figure that?

Christianity is defined by what is taught in the Scripture. The doctrines of grace (or Calvinism or whatever you want to call it) are taught in Scripture, therefore it is Christianity.

The Doctrines of John Calvin are for the most part not scriptural. They are the doctrines of men mingled with scripture. Just because you use biblical language does not mean they are correct.

 

[PierzStyx]

How many explicit statements do you want? There are so many that we could talk about that this thread would be 50 pages long and we wouldnt even scratch the surface. From the gospel of John:


No mere man can give someone eternal life. No mere man can say "I and the Father are one". Muhammed could NEVER say that he could give eternal life or that he and the Father are one.

But HOW did Jesus define His oneness with the Father? From John 17:20-23,

"Neither pray I for these [His Apostles] alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Christ clearly lays out that He explicitly wants His Apostles to be one even as He and the Father are one. If you believe in the trinity, then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Christ is praying that the Apostles will all me somehow melded together into twelve separate, yet somehow still one whole, super Apostle. And then somehow that super Apostle would meld and become one with God, making God in fact 15 separate beings, yet only one being. After all that is how the trinity defines the relationship between God and Jesus. It makes no sense.

It is instead pretty obvious what Christ means. He is praying that the Apostles will be one as He and the Father are one, united in the cause of truth and salvation, that through the Spirit the Apostles will act together to lead the church, preach the gospel, and act in Christ's name. And this spiritual unity is the same unity Christ shares with the Father. They are perfectly united in all things, the Son having submitted Himself perfectly to the will of the Father, as we see in Gethsemane when Jesus prayed "not my will but thy will be done." (Luke 22:42) Christ and the Father even had individual, separate wills, yet Christ being in unity with teh Father, perfectly One with Him, submitted to the Father's will. And this is the power of Christ's Atonement for us, that it reconciles us to God and makes us One with Him, even as He and Christ are One, receiving all the glory the Son does as well. A beautiful truth, and an understandable one. God is not a "great mystery" completely incomprehensible to His children. Rather He is our Heavenly Father, the "Father of spirits" (Hebrews 12:7-9) who wishes us to come to Him, choose to follow Him by obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and love one another.

 

[PierzStyx]

Jesus forgave people of their sins.. No man could ever forgive sins. Only God can. The Jews knew this and that is why they sought constantly to murder Jesus:

The Jews thought only the Father could forgive sins. They did not understand that before them stood Jehovah Himself, the one who they worshiped through sacrifice in remembrance of His Atonement to come. I don't think quoting apostate, incorrect teachers can prove your point. They were obviously wrong. Of course they didn't understand that Jesus was also as Divine as the Father and acted with the Father's authority as the Father either.

 

[erowe1]

It is instead pretty obvious what Christ means. He is praying that the Apostles will be one as He and the Father are one, united in the cause of truth and salvation, that through the Spirit the Apostles will act together to lead the church, preach the gospel, and act in Christ's name. And this spiritual unity is the same unity Christ shares with the Father. They are perfectly united in all things, the Son having submitted Himself perfectly to the will of the Father, as we see in Gethsemane when Jesus prayed "not my will but thy will be done." (Luke 22:42) Christ and the Father even had individual, separate wills, yet Christ being in unity with teh Father, perfectly One with Him, submitted to the Father's will. And this is the power of Christ's Atonement for us, that it reconciles us to God and makes us One with Him, even as He and Christ are One, receiving all the glory the Son does as well. A beautiful truth, and an understandable one. God is not a "great mystery" completely incomprehensible to His children. Rather He is our Heavenly Father, the "Father of spirits" (Hebrews 12:7-9) who wishes us to come to Him, choose to follow Him by obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and love one another.

That's one kind of unity the Son and the Father have. And that kind of unity can be had with God by believers. But that's not the only passage in the Bible that talks about the kind of unity the Father and Son have. The Son, like the Father, is God. We are not, and never can be, God.

 

[Sola_Fide]

The Jews thought only the Father could forgive sins. They did not understand that before them stood Jehovah Himself, the one who they worshiped through sacrifice in remembrance of His Atonement to come. I don't think quoting apostate, incorrect teachers can prove your point. They were obviously wrong. Of course they didn't understand that Jesus was also as Divine as the Father and acted with the Father's authority as the Father either.

It's not that Jesus was "as divine as the Father". That would mean there are multiple gods in the universe, and if there is anything in Scripture that it is so plain, it is that there is ONE God. Christianity is a monotheistic faith. This is why Mormonism is not Christian, and can never be. Mormons are polytheists.

Jesus is the same God as the Father. This is the Biblical witness and was the apostolic faith since the beginning.

 

[moostraks]

How do you figure that?

Christianity is defined by what is taught in the Scripture. The doctrines of grace (or Calvinism or whatever you want to call it) are taught in Scripture, therefore it is Christianity.

The doctrines of grace are an interpretation of the Bible and put forth by a man, whom diligent research will show lacked the traits of one worthy of Christian leadership.

It's not that Jesus was "as divine as the Father". That would mean there are multiple gods in the universe, and if there is anything in Scripture that it is so plain, it is that there is ONE God. Christianity is a monotheistic faith. This is why Mormonism is not Christian, and can never be. Mormons are polytheists.

Jesus is the same God as the Father. This is the Biblical witness and was the apostolic faith since the beginning.

Would you be appealing to tradition here? If so, whose tradition would you be claiming, hmmm Sola Fide?

 

[Sola_Fide]

The doctrines of grace are an interpretation of the Bible and put forth by a man

We all do interpret the Bible. Some interpret the Bible biblically and logically, and some don't.

Would you be appealing to tradition here? If so, whose tradition would you be claiming, hmmm Sola Fide?

No. I was appealing to the Scripture's description of the apostolic church in the book of Acts (from where I quoted the verse that described their belief in the trinity.)

Furthermore, it is not wrong to appeal to tradition. Some traditions are Biblical, some are not. The important thing is that Scripture alone stands above our traditions and judges them. Scripture is the final authority.

But as far as the early church is concerned, it VERY EARLY left the strong position of faith alone and started to teach works salvationism and free will. Robert Reymond has written that if Paul could have seen the church just a few generations after he died, he would have pronounced them heretics like he did in the book of Galatians. In other words, the early church, like all ages of the church, was susceptible to error, and it wasn't until the Reformation that churches began to proclaim Paul's gospel of free grace again. The Reformation was a wonderful time in history...it was when the doctrine of justification was the issue of the day.

The early church got many things WRONG. The Scripture determines doctrine, not the church.

 

[moostraks]

We all do interpret the Bible. Some interpret the Bible biblically and logically, and some don't.




No. I was appealing to the Scripture's description of the apostolic church in the book of Acts (from where I quoted the verse that described their belief in the trinity.)

Furthermore, it is not wrong to appeal to tradition. Some traditions are Biblical, some are not. The important thing is that Scripture alone stands above our traditions and judges them. Scripture is the final authority.

But as far as the early church is concerned, it VERY EARLY left the strong position of faith alone and started to teach works salvationism and free will. Robert Reymond has written that if Paul could have seen the church just a few generations after he died, he would have pronounced them heretics like he did in the book of Galatians. In other words, the early church, like all ages of the church, was susceptible to error, and it wasn't until the Reformation that churches began to proclaim Paul's gospel of free grace again. The Reformation was a wonderful time in history...it was when the doctrine of justification was the issue of the day.

The early church got many things WRONG. The Scripture determines doctrine, not the church.

The problem with your position on we all "interpret" the Bible is that some interpretations are within the Spirit and some are not. Henceforth, why you are at loggerheads with so many folks here. The traditions of the church are the "keepers" of the intent of the Scriptures. You have chosen to follow after the belief system of a fallen man who laid forth a relatively new system and who was interpreting Scriptures in a manner to benefit his own will. You cast aspersion upon anyone who does not follow this new system, and yet want to lay claims to it being sola scriptura, when it is Calvin defined. Apostolic succession is the method wherein the tradition of the church was to hold forth the intent of scripture so that new interpretations could not mislead.

2 Thes 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

 

[erowe1]

The traditions of the church are the "keepers" of the intent of the Scriptures.

How do we access these traditions?

 

[Sola_Fide]

The problem with your position on we all "interpret" the Bible is that some interpretations are within the Spirit and some are not. Henceforth, why you are at loggerheads with so many folks here. The traditions of the church are the "keepers" of the intent of the Scriptures.

Where do you get this idea? From the effeminate men in robes who tell you this? Who interprets the "traditions"? Who interprets the interpretations of the traditions? Who interprets the interpretations of the interpretations of the traditions? Who interprets the intepretations of the interpretations of the interpretations of the traditions?

But to me it is very predictable that you would hold this view. It is no surprise that a man-centered theology which exalts man's will would also exalt man's authority in a church over the Word of God. It is all connected theologically.

You have chosen to follow after the belief system of a fallen man who laid forth a relatively new system and who was interpreting Scriptures in a manner to benefit his own will.

Who knows what you're talking about here. Are you so confused as to think that a man named John Calvin is the only person to see the doctrines of grace in Scripture? Are you so confused as to think Paul didn't teach election? Who knows...

You cast aspersion upon anyone who does not follow this new system, and yet want to lay claims to it being sola scriptura, when it is Calvin defined. Apostolic succession is the method wherein the tradition of the church was to hold forth the intent of scripture so that new interpretations could not mislead.

2 Thes 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

"This new system..." It's as if you (or wherever you are getting this from) is saying that the doctrines of grace are something new and novel. No, they are simply Biblical. It is the same thing Jesus and Paul taught. PAUL TAUGHT ELECTION IN THE VERSE YOU JUST QUOTED:

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 NIV

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Paul is right. We should stand firm on what was passed on to us by the apostles by word or letter. Since the apostles have all gone to heaven, and since they cannot give us oral tradition, what God has preserved for us is the Scripture, which is all we need to be equipped for theology, philosophy, and life:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Theocrat]

Other Antichrists

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son. [1 John 2:22]

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world. [1 John 4:3]

Islam is not the only belief system which is antichristian; any faith that denies the Trinity (including "Atheism") is antichristian, too.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

Islam is not the only belief system which is antichristian; any faith that denies the Trinity (including "Atheism") is antichristian, too.

I'd go one step further and include quite a few that consider themselves Trinitarian Christians. Calvinists, for example, and all those who follow in the footsteps of the Protestant Deformation.

 

[Theocrat]

An Odd Assertion Questioned

I'd go one step further and include quite a few that consider themselves Trinitarian Christians. Calvinists, for example, and all those who follow in the footsteps of the Protestant Deformation.

What in the theology of Calvinism makes it antichristian (by the teachings of Scripture, as quoted above)?

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

What in the theology of Calvinism makes it antichristian (by the teachings of Scripture, as quoted above)?

Calvinism is a false religion that is unscriptural and is in opposition to the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.

The resounding message of the New Testament is that "Jesus is Lord." He is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil and has triumphed over all the evils of the whole world, Colossians 2:15.

Proof of this is that Jesus Christ sits in heaven at the right hand of God (a place of honor and respect) victorious over all things, Hebrews 7:26.

"Far above all principalities and powers, and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but in the world to come. And has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:21, 22.

Jesus Christ by his mighty works has reconciled a world of lost sinners unto God.

"And all things are of God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them." 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

God sees all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the new humanity and the new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old have passed away and the new has arrived in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has put the old sinful Adamic race to death in himself, Romans 6:6. And has brought forth a new humanity in the resurrection, Romans 6:5.

"God has exalted Jesus and has given him a name above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on the earth and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father," Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

Does this sound like Jesus is going to share the universe with Satan because he didn't atone for all of the sins of humanity, only some? Does this sound like Jesus failed to provide salvation for all of humanity, only some?

If you are going to believe Calvinism you must believe that Jesus Christ is a failure. If you are going to believe Calvinism you must believe that God is a ruthless, heartless, tyrant that condemns billions to hell for no reason. If you are going to believe Calvinism you might just as well throw your Bible in the trash. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

 

[erowe1]

..

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

I take it you aren't much interested in the Bible. Huh?

I do, and that's why I reject the perversion that is Deformed "Christianity."

 

[Sola_Fide]

Does this sound like Jesus is going to share the universe with Satan because he didn't atone for all of the sins of humanity, only some? Does this sound like Jesus failed to provide salvation for all of humanity, only some?

If you are going to believe Calvinism you must believe that Jesus Christ is a failure. If you are going to believe Calvinism you must believe that God is a ruthless, heartless, tyrant that condemns billions to hell for no reason. If you are going to believe Calvinism you might just as well throw your Bible in the trash. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

Paul writing to the church at Ephesus:

Ephesians 1:11 NIV

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

If you are an Arminian, then you certainly must believe that God is a failure. He is trying so hard to save all these people, but He can't because of man's all powerful will. Arminians believe in an eternally frustrated god. It's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible works out ALL things after the counsel of His will. God is glorified in the salvation of the elect and in the judgement of the wicked. All men deserve Hell. The glorious thing about grace is that God saves any of us.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

If you are an Arminian, then you certainly must believe that God is a failure. He is trying so hard to save all these people, but He can't because of man's all powerful will. Arminians believe in an eternally frustrated god. It's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible works out ALL things after the counsel of His will. God is glorified in the salvation of the elect and in the judgement of the wicked. All men deserve Hell. The glorious thing about grace is that God saves any of us.

I am not an Arminian. Jacobus Arminius was as much a heretic as Calvin.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I am not an Arminian. Jacobus Arminius was as much a heretic as Calvin.

Oh, a "heretic", huh? So where are coming from then?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Originally posted by Jumbo Shrimp

If you are going to believe Calvinism you must believe that God is a ruthless, heartless, tyrant that condemns billions to hell for no reason.

No reason? Uh...hello? How about their sin? How about...man has broken God's law, man is a lawbreaker and deserving of judgement?

I mean...to even say something so childish and unbiblical I think betrays the fact that you havent given this much thought and you certainty haven't read or understood the Scripture's condemnation of mankind for its sin. Romans chapter 1 is a good place to start.