[Video] Why Islam Is The Anti Christ

[erowe1]

"trinity" is not in the bible. This is a concept which came hundreds of years later. If that's not the case then you must reconcile how millions of Christians can open the Bible and still not believe Jesus is God. They can because the concept of the trinity is not in the Bible, but the Romans were originally polytheists - their gods had children, this was an easier concept for them to swallow.

The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. But I would say the concept is there in Matthew 28:19 and other places.

And, more specifically, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God in John 1:1 and other places.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Watch and see how the Unitarian conception of things holds up against Trinitarianism. Not too well...

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

You define your views of Christianity and then demand all others tow the line or they are unbiblical. Your views lack the characteristics indicated by the fruit of the spirit.

He's a Calvinist, which is about as close to true Christianity as Islam.

 

[Sola_Fide]

He's a Calvinist, which is about as close to true Christianity as Islam.

How do you figure that?

Christianity is defined by what is taught in the Scripture. The doctrines of grace (or Calvinism or whatever you want to call it) are taught in Scripture, therefore it is Christianity.

 

[Muwahid]

The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. But I would say the concept is there in Matthew 28:19 and other places.

And, more specifically, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God in John 1:1 and other places.

I've found most scholar believe the "trinity doctrine" in Mathew 28:19, is in fact a forgery. That would explain why there's such little evidence of this doctrine (which is these days so emphasized) in the gospels. The fact is if Jesus was in fact God why don't we have one simple plain statement of him saying such? Even is 28:19 were not a forgery it still does not emphasize Jesus as God.

You see this is what's troubling about the trinity which is what modern Christianity is all about, it's challenging for Christians to even prove from authentic sources, and many Christians who read the same gospels are Unitarians and do not believe Jesus is God.

 

[erowe1]

I've found most scholar believe the "trinity doctrine" in Mathew 28:19, is in fact a forgery.

Who are some of these scholars you're talking about? I'm pretty sure they don't make up "most scholars," nor is that view one that most scholars would take seriously.

That would explain why there's such little evidence of this doctrine (which is these days so emphasized) in the gospels. The fact is if Jesus was in fact God why don't we have one simple plain statement of him saying such? Even is 28:19 were not a forgery it still does not emphasize Jesus as God.

I've never heard Michael Jordan call himself the greatest basketball player of his lifetime either. And if I did hear him say that, it would make me less impressed by him, not more. There are no places in the Gospels where Jesus says, "I am God." But there are places, such as his "I am" statements in John, and his claim to have the authority to forgive sins, that imply it.

You see this is what's troubling about the trinity which is what modern Christianity is all about, it's challenging for Christians to even prove from authentic sources, and many Christians who read the same gospels are Unitarians and do not believe Jesus is God.

Unitarians don't actually believe the Bible is authoritative Scripture. When they encounter something in it that they don't believe, they have no trouble discounting it as simply wrong. They don't believe in Jesus's virgin birth either, even though Matthew and Luke both teach it explicitly. It's not very difficult at all to prove from the New Testament that Jesus's earliest disciples who wrote those books taught that he was God.

 

[Jumbo Shrimp]

I've found most scholar believe the "trinity doctrine" in Mathew 28:19, is in fact a forgery. That would explain why there's such little evidence of this doctrine (which is these days so emphasized) in the gospels. The fact is if Jesus was in fact God why don't we have one simple plain statement of him saying such? Even is 28:19 were not a forgery it still does not emphasize Jesus as God.

You see this is what's troubling about the trinity which is what modern Christianity is all about, it's challenging for Christians to even prove from authentic sources, and many Christians who read the same gospels are Unitarians and do not believe Jesus is God.

Sacred Scripture isn't the only form of Divine Revelation.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I've found most scholar believe the "trinity doctrine" in Mathew 28:19, is in fact a forgery. That would explain why there's such little evidence of this doctrine (which is these days so emphasized) in the gospels. The fact is if Jesus was in fact God why don't we have one simple plain statement of him saying such? Even is 28:19 were not a forgery it still does not emphasize Jesus as God.

You see this is what's troubling about the trinity which is what modern Christianity is all about, it's challenging for Christians to even prove from authentic sources, and many Christians who read the same gospels are Unitarians and do not believe Jesus is God.

How many explicit statements do you want? There are so many that we could talk about that this thread would be 50 pages long and we wouldnt even scratch the surface. From the gospel of John:

John 10:25-30 NIV

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

I and the Father are one."

No mere man can give someone eternal life. No mere man can say "I and the Father are one". Muhammed could NEVER say that he could give eternal life or that he and the Father are one.

 

[Muwahid]

Who are some of these scholars you're talking about? I'm pretty sure they don't make up "most scholars," nor is that view one that most scholars would take seriously.


I've never heard Michael Jordan call himself the greatest basketball player of his lifetime either. And if I did hear him say that, it would make me less impressed by him, not more. There are no places in the Gospels where Jesus says, "I am God." But there are places, such as his "I am" statements in John, and his claim to have the authority to forgive sins, that imply it.


Unitarians don't actually believe the Bible is authoritative Scripture. When they encounter something in it that they don't believe, they have no trouble discounting it as simply wrong. They don't believe in Jesus's virgin birth either, even though Matthew and Luke both teach it explicitly. It's not very difficult at all to prove from the New Testament that Jesus's earliest disciples who wrote those books taught that he was God.

In Peake's Commentary regarding Mathew 28:19 "the Church of the first days did not observe this world-wide command, even if they knew it. The command to baptize into the threefold name is a late doctrinal expansion."

Micheal Jordan proclaiming to be the greatest basketball player, would not be factually true, it is a subjective statement and it depends on the criteria in which we judge the "best". However, don't you find it might be a little important for God to say he is God? That's a bad time to be humble, because then you're risking your followers going to hell because you didn't want to have an ego and say you are God.

If Jesus was in fact God he would have stated it, plain and simple. In all the gospels no one quotes him as saying such nor are we explicitly told he is God then you want people to believe he was God, not only that apparently he was killed and resurrected, and talked about God in the third person and we're meant to believe he is God? I say insanity.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Jesus forgave people of their sins.. No man could ever forgive sins. Only God can. The Jews knew this and that is why they sought constantly to murder Jesus:

Mark 2:5-7 NIV

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

 

[erowe1]

In Peake's Commentary regarding Mathew 28:19 "the Church of the first days did not observe this world-wide command, even if they knew it. The command to baptize into the threefold name is a late doctrinal expansion."

How do you get "forgery" out of that? And what was your basis of saying "most scholars"?

Micheal Jordan proclaiming to be the greatest basketball player, would not be factually true, it is a subjective statement and it depends on the criteria in which we judge the "best". However, don't you find it might be a little important for God to say he is God? That's a bad time to be humble, because then you're risking your followers going to hell because you didn't want to have an ego and say you are God.

If Jesus was in fact God he would have stated it, plain and simple. In all the gospels no one quotes him as saying such nor are we explicitly told he is God then you want people to believe he was God, not only that apparently he was killed and resurrected, and talked about God in the third person and we're meant to believe he is God? I say insanity.

I disagree. Anyone can say they're God. You and I could say it if we wanted to. Saying those words means nothing. It's proving it that matters.

 

[Sola_Fide]

The Trinity is not something that was "made up" later on. Trinitarianism was the belief of the early church:

Acts 20:28 NIV

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

The Holy Spirit made the apostles overseers of the church that God bought with His own blood. Father, Son, and Spirit. Trinitarianism.

There are dozens and dozens of these references in the New Testament. 1st Timothy 3:15-16 is another one.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Jesus said He was Yahweh Himself. Muhawid, if you want an explicit statement of Jesus declaring He is God Almighty, then here it is. It doesn't get ANY clearer than this. Jesus said to the Jews:

John 8:56-59 NIV

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

Then of course they recoiled at the idea that Abraham saw Jesus:

"You are not yet fifty years old," they said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

There you have it. Jesus explicitly saying that He existed before Abraham, that Abraham saw Him, and Jesus explicitly calls Himself the I AM, which any Jew of that day would know was Yahweh Himself.

This is why the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus. They knew exactly what He was saying and Muhawid, YOU know exactly what He is saying here as well.

 

[Muwahid]

How many explicit statements do you want? There are so many that we could talk about that this thread would be 50 pages long and we wouldnt even scratch the surface. From the gospel of John:


No mere man can give someone eternal life. No mere man can say "I and the Father are one". Muhammed could NEVER say that he could give eternal life or that he and the Father are one.

When the Jews went to stone Jesus, because they misunderstood him, in claiming to be "God", he responded: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

He in other words says: your own law calls people "gods" (Psalm 82:6), but you want to stone me because I claim to be the son of God who was sent to this world?

This in my opinion disproves the point that Jesus is God -- unless you believe Jesus (God) backtracked when he could have plainly stated "Yes! I am God".

When it comes to eternal life, will you not get eternal life by way of Jesus by following him to heaven? If one follows a prophet they will be granted eternal life in heaven.

 

[Sola_Fide]

When the Jews went to stone Jesus, because they misunderstood him, in claiming to be "God", he responded: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

He in other words says: your own law calls people "gods" (Psalm 82:6), but you want to stone me because I claim to be the son of God who was sent to this world?

This in my opinion disproves the point that Jesus is God -- unless you believe Jesus (God) backtracked when he could have plainly stated "Yes! I am God".

When it comes to eternal life, will you not get eternal life by way of Jesus by following him to heaven? If one follows a prophet they will be granted eternal life in heaven.

You totally missed Jesus' entire point in that passage! Jesus is applying the Psalm 82 judgement against "unjust judges" to the Jews that were attempting to stone Him!

Jesus was saying that He was God's Son and able to give eternal life and the Jews were guilty of being unjust judges by wanting to stone Him for it!

 

[acptulsa]

You totally missed Jesus' entire point in that passage! Jesus is applying the Psalm 82 judgement against "unjust judges" to the Jews that were attempting to stone Him!

Jesus was saying that He was God's Son and able to give eternal life and the Jews were guilty of being unjust judges by wanting to stone Him for it!

You totally missed Jesus' entire point in that passage! Jesus was saying that we all call God 'Father' and we are all His children!

 

[Sola_Fide]

You totally missed Jesus' entire point in that passage! Jesus was saying that we all call God 'Father' and we are all His children!

No. Jesus never said that "we are all God's children". He said the religious leaders of His day were NOT God's children, but children of the devil:

John 8:42-44 NIV

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[PierzStyx]

Get your muslim friends to watch it too,they need it.He's a converted muslim and lays it all out very well with literal Bible references of which nations Jesus will destroy when he returns.

Unless he says "ALL" he is full of it. All nations will be destroyed when Christ comes and the Earth will be purified by fire. He will then take His place as King of Kings and God of The Earth.

As for your sig line about Israel, go read Zechariah 13. Israel too shall be strenuously chastised as well.

 

[PierzStyx]

No. Jesus never said that "we are all God's children". He said the religious leaders of His day were NOT God's children, but children of the devil:

I love how you cut out WHY Jesus calls them the children of the devil. John 8:41- "Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God." They choose to follow the ways of Satan, not the commandments of God and make themselves into Satan's children.

 

[PierzStyx]

No. Jesus never said that "we are all God's children". He said the religious leaders of His day were NOT God's children, but children of the devil:

Actually He did. In quoting Psalm 82 as a rebuke to the Jews He is making the point that they are God's children, and their scriptures say so. Then why do they attempt to stone Him for saying He is the Son of God? How is it that it is okay for them to make that claim, yet not Him? They are being hypocritical! That is the point. So both statements, yours and acptulsa's are true.