USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

[QuickZ06]

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I have no idea what your point is. At first you criticize me for getting my information from the government. Now you are saying my opinion doesn't count because its based on personal experience, yet your information based on your friends experiences somehow count more than my experience.

Sure most people don't have as bad of an experience as me, but there are a hell of a lot of athletes who magically age 20 years overnight, gain tons of weight they can't get rid of, or have their entire bodies break down with constant injuries.

You are one person, I know many people with zero issues, if that logic fails you I am sorry. And your opinion would have some weight to it if you could at least give me the name of this life changing drug you put in your body. A lot of people have pre medical conditions that they dont even know about and when they start up a cycle it comes to full light as they are putting there bodies threw an extreme routine. So even if you are the "supposed" rare case it still proves its not and end your life drug/horrible as you make it out to be. You are still here even after the fact you put god knows what in your body without knowing 100% about the drug.

Do you not see why I am grinding at you so much on this. You are doing what the liberals do, rehashing government rhetoric without presenting any facts. There are so many snake oils in the body building world its not even funny and usually when someone says they are royally screwed up from it, is because they failed to do the research and get opinions on the subject as it was a scam from the beginning.

At first you criticize me for getting my information from the government.

And yes this is laughable as this is the same government that tells you marijuana is HORRIBLE but yet they are looking our for your interest when it comes to steroids? Yes I will criticize that.

 

[tttppp]

You are one person, I know many people with zero issues, if that logic fails you I am sorry. And your opinion would have some weight to it if you could at least give me the name of this life changing drug you put in your body. A lot of people have pre medical conditions that they dont even know about and when they start up a cycle it comes to full light as they are putting there bodies threw an extreme routine. So even if you are the "supposed" rare case it still proves its not and end your life drug/horrible as you make it out to be. You are still here even after the fact you put god knows what in your body without knowing 100% about the drug.

Do you not see why I am grinding at you so much on this. You are doing what the liberals do, rehashing government rhetoric without presenting any facts. There are so many snake oils in the body building world its not even funny and usually when someone says they are royally screwed up from it, is because they failed to do the research and get opinions on the subject as it was a scam from the beginning.



And yes this is laughable as this is the same government that tells you marijuana is HORRIBLE but yet they are looking our for your interest when it comes to steroids? Yes I will criticize that.

Here you go with the bullshit government rhetoric again. You may not feel my example is not great evidence, and thats fine. But that is where I got my information from. I am not rehashing government rhetoric. If I had listened to the government I never would have tried steroids. I never would have tried pot. I never would have tried acupuncture. See what I'm getting at. I don't do or say things because the government tells me. Additionally, I never said pot should be illegal. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. There are plenty of people on here where you can get in legitimate arguments with. You don't need to manufacture arguments like this.

Unless you provide me with some sort of point to all your posts, I'll just have to assume you are trolling.

 

[QuickZ06]

Here you go with the bullshit government rhetoric again. You may not feel my example is not great evidence, and thats fine. But that is where I got my information from. I am not rehashing government rhetoric. If I had listened to the government I never would have tried steroids. I never would have tried pot. I never would have tried acupuncture. See what I'm getting at. I don't do or say things because the government tells me. Additionally, I never said pot should be illegal. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. There are plenty of people on here where you can get in legitimate arguments with. You don't need to manufacture arguments like this.

Unless you provide me with some sort of point to all your posts, I'll just have to assume you are trolling.

Im not trolling as my past post on this site speak volumes, you are not getting what I am saying just because you had a supposed bad experience dose not mean you need to spread w/e about how it the worst drug or how horrible it is. Just say "I took a drug (testosterone booster) that I have no idea what it is anymore but it did not work out for me", thats it. Steroids is keeping aids victims alive for christ sake, it has a great purpose outside of body building. But when you spew that it is horrible that is all people hear. And I understand you are for legalizing it I got that many post ago.

The point I am making is the government is wrong especially on this for the most part, are their side effects, of course. But to think everyone who takes it will have what happened to you is false. You did not like it and your body did not, great. But don't make it sound like it is the end all drug and no one should be using it is not cool.

Marijuana and steroids are illegal for a reason and thinking they spew actual facts about one drug but not the other makes no sense. They are not looking out for us.

At least we can agree on something at least......legalization.

This dead horse has been beat enough.

 

[tttppp]

Im not trolling as my past post on this site speak volumes, you are not getting what I am saying just because you had a supposed bad experience dose not mean you need to spread w/e about how it the worst drug or how horrible it is. Just say "I took a drug (testosterone booster) that I have no idea what it is anymore but it did not work out for me", thats it. Steroids is keeping aids victims alive for christ sake, it has a great purpose outside of body building. But when you spew that it is horrible that is all people hear. And I understand you are for legalizing it I got that many post ago.

The point I am making is the government is wrong especially on this for the most part, are their side effects, of course. But to think everyone who takes it will have what happened to you is false. You did not like it and your body did not, great. But don't make it sound like it is the end all drug and no one should be using it is not cool.

Marijuana and steroids are illegal for a reason and thinking they spew actual facts about one drug but not the other makes no sense. They are not looking out for us.

At least we can agree on something at least......legalization.

This dead horse has been beat enough.

I was only criticizing you because you seemed to be trying to argue against making steroids and pot illegal, when I am already agreeing that they should be legal. That part is irrelevant to whether they are good for you or not. If you make them legal it will help innovation, finding ways to make them healthier...as well as reducing costs of enforcement.

My experience is my experience. I have a right to say how horrible it is. Even if part of the problem was that I was already unhealthy, people have the right to know what they can do to you if you are unhealthy. Its the type of thing that should only be taken as a last resort in my opinion. There may be other steroids that are not as bad, but I don't have any experience with them. The only thing I have seen regarding them is that it appears as though they have caused health problems in numerous athletes who have taken them for years. There have been several athletes who had an awesome body, then almost overnight their body completely crashes and their body turns to dough and they can't reverse it.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

This. Not that I follow it anymore after he retired, but to me Armstrong will always be the champ for those 7 years regardless of what they say. He never failed a test. They're just pissed off because he won 7 straight while clean against a field of cheaters.

If you have ever been close to professional in any sport, you would know it doesn't take much to cheat on a drug test. The guy could have had thousands of drug tests and tested negative on all of them, and it wouldn't really remove suspicion. The drug tests are poor indicators of guilt or innocence. All they can do is tell you if someone tests positive. If they test negative, that just means they, for some reason, did not test positive this time.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Either he had access to some crazy advanced shit that nobody else knew about or could get, even as a broke unknown during his first win, or he was clean.

I'm going with he was clean. You don't beat several hundred tests over nearly a decade if you're dirty.

You don't understand. It is actually very possible to do this. The tests are inadequate and can never prove innocence. They only prove guilt.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

No, that's not what I was saying. I said that I want all sports cleaned up, but from jump street, they were acting like cycling was clean and the only folks juicing up were the US Postal team and Lance; in hindsight, that's a crock...the entire sport was dirty. To a large degree, Lance was singled out because he was a super successful American and the French hated that in their event. Lance was doping, but so was everyone else. Let sleeping dogs lie and clean up a dirty sport (probably the dirtiest) going forward. That's the same thing I want for baseball.

It's likely that they were making an example of him. You can't "catch" a bunch of nobodies and expect it to have an effect on people. Catching Lance Armstrong brings loads of attention to the controversy in cycling.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Except for the fact that he already had a huge bucket full of wins before the cancer, that makes total sense.

He was talented before, but he was more talented afterward. You can't just get up off your couch and become a superstar by taking drugs or EPO. It's a part of a plan that involves lots of intense training. It helps you to recover from your training so you can train harder than anyone else and recover with less rest.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Do we ban people with better genetics to make the playing field more "even" or maybe not allow protein shakes, creatine ect. ect. as they "enhance" your performance and recovery times? When does the line get drawn or does one even need to be drawn? Or do you let bigons be bigons?

What's a bigon? Do you mean bygones, as in times gone by? Because if you really thought bigon was a word, wow. Just wow.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I want to see all the athletes "juiced" I would enjoy watching pros even former pros like, Spud Webb slam-dunkin from half court, and 700ft homeruns, 100mph cyclists, 150mph pitches/slapshots.

Let's make sporting events memorable and entertaining

As if we needed those things to make sports memorable and entertaining. It doesn't matter if a cyclist is going 150mph or 50mph. It's testing the human limits that makes athletics what it is. If you watched all the drama of a race play out at 50 mph, would watching it play out the same way at 150mph really make that much of a difference? Sure, they would go really fast, but if that's what you want, go to a NASCAR race and watch them go 200mph and have nasty crashes. People don't watch cycling because they go fast. They watch cycling for the COMPETITION. The competition is what makes racing exciting, not the nominal speed of the racers. Besides, I think cycling is about at its limits even with doping since everyone who ever achieves anything in the sport has been doing it for a long time.

 

[Muwahid]

Vitamin C has more side effects than steroids. Should we ban vitamin C? Vaginal discharge is one of these side effects from a vitamin, pretty gross and horrible.



Everything you just said is government rhetoric. I never said they were vitamins. You sure do like putting words in my mouth, you have a personal agenda against me?

Look how many people "died" from steroids last year. Bet you its under 10 and even then I still call BS that is was all just steroids.

The big pharma companies are pushing their testosterone boosters for a reason and had steroids banned for a reason. Are seeing the similarities here, pretty much the same as marijuana.

The propaganda on steroids is so good that even liberty minded folks are buying into it. But here is the "kicker" don't believe a dang thing I told you, go research the heck out of it and come up with your own opinion and stay away from anything government funded please.

I agree with you, the vast majority of "terrible" side effects of steroids are temporary, like the testes shrinking, which only happens because they no longer need to produce testosterone, and the effect is reversed eventually. The government crusaded against them since Ben Johnson.

They have adverse effects, but tbh, I hardly consider it cheating. If that's cheating, then taking supplements should be cheating too, or any type of specialized endurance training, if the goal is to get an edge, who cares. It's their bodies.

As far as im concerned anyone saying he "cheated" doesn't realize, everyone "cheats" and if everyone "cheats" it's not really "cheating" is it?

 

[QuickZ06]

What's a bigon? Do you mean bygones, as in times gone by? Because if you really thought bigon was a word, wow. Just wow.

Autocorrect got me on that and I did not catch it, plus I was about 10 shots in. And yes, I do know it is bygones. Care to rip on me anymore, or can we keep the condescending nazi grammer to ourselves?

You could have came at me at a more friendly minded way, maybe on the lines of "I think you meant bygones lol". We love to eat our own in this movement don't we?

 

[QuickZ06]

As if we needed those things to make sports memorable and entertaining. It doesn't matter if a cyclist is going 150mph or 50mph. It's testing the human limits that makes athletics what it is. If you watched all the drama of a race play out at 50 mph, would watching it play out the same way at 150mph really make that much of a difference? Sure, they would go really fast, but if that's what you want, go to a NASCAR race and watch them go 200mph and have nasty crashes. People don't watch cycling because they go fast. They watch cycling for the COMPETITION. The competition is what makes racing exciting, not the nominal speed of the racers. Besides, I think cycling is about at its limits even with doping since everyone who ever achieves anything in the sport has been doing it for a long time.

Stem cell is the future for doping, undetectable.

 

[QuickZ06]

That much is true. Cycling has a ridiculous amount of oversight and regulations. I personally think they should just let people use steroids if they want, but that introduces a very tough dilemma for people who are concerned for their health and the side-effects of steroids. Do they care enough about winning to sacrifice their health? They would pretty much have to do it in order to win, so it's really a tough dilemma.

You have more side effects from drinking fluoride water than steroids. Everything for the most part is reversible.

And it is really not a tough dilemma for the people in sports.

 

[tttppp]

It's likely that they were making an example of him. You can't "catch" a bunch of nobodies and expect it to have an effect on people. Catching Lance Armstrong brings loads of attention to the controversy in cycling.

In other sports they always go after nobodies and use them as a scapegoat, blaming him for all the steroid problems. I do think its better to go after the big names to clean up the sport, but removing someones titles goes too far especially because everyone else is on steroids. Taking away titles ruins the sport. Everytime they list the past title winners, they are always going to have to discuss Armstrongs steroid abuse to justify what happened during those seven years.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Autocorrect got me on that and I did not catch it, plus I was about 10 shots in. And yes, I do know it is bygones. Care to rip on me anymore, or can we keep the condescending nazi grammer to ourselves?

You could have came at me at a more liberty minded way, maybe on the lines of "I think you meant bygones lol". We love to eat our own in this movement don't we?

A more liberty-minded way? What the fuck does that have to do with it? I corrected your grammar. Sorry, I'll make sure I never do it again. Jeez.

How is "I think you meant bygones lol" so much more liberty-oriented?

 

[QuickZ06]

A more liberty-minded way? What the fuck does that have to do with it? I corrected your grammar. Sorry, I'll make sure I never do it again. Jeez.

How is "I think you meant bygones lol" so much more liberty-oriented?

So out of all the things you could nit pick that I have said in this thread you choose my gammer......and you even knew what I meant, so wgaff?

When one cannot attack the idea, they attack the grammar.

You don't have to be a dick about it. It drives people away from the movement. But seems you have an attitude so w/e, as i'm sure it just attracts so many people to this movement

And it was suppose to say friendly, don't know why I said liberty. Guess it is just always on my mind....

We done here?

 

[BlackTerrel]

Awful lot of times and resources dedicated to going after a guy whose been retired almost a decade. Who benefits from that?

 

[RickyJ]

Awful lot of times and resources dedicated to going after a guy whose been retired almost a decade. Who benefits from that?

He hasn't been retired that long, he raced in 2005. I don't know really why they are going after him. They know it will only hurt the sport, they just don't care I suppose. I never really doubted he was doping, but he isn't the only one by far.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So out of all the things you could nit pick that I have said in this thread you choose my gammer......and you even knew what I meant, so wgaff?

You don't have to be a dick about it. It drives people away from the movement. But seems you have an attitude so w/e, as i'm sure it just attracts so many people to this movement

Whatever. I take the liberty to correct people's grammar more liberally on the internet, but apparently that makes me more anti-liberty, according to you. I just hate how if you don't like someone's attitude on this forum, you just say I'm not "liberty-minded" because I have a bad attitude at times. It makes no sense and is stupid. It also has nothing to do with this liberty movement as a whole, so you can quit that little spiel.

REMINDER TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC: From here forward, everyone is required to tack "lol" onto the end of casual sentences or criticisms so as to not offend anyone and avoid any confrontation whatsoever, which is the "liberty" thing to do, as per my decree. All other behaviors are anti-liberty and will be dealt with with appropriate sanctions on the offender.