UPDATE: Lawyers for Ron Paul Conference Call 9PMEST WILL be recorded and posted #inside

[ClydeCoulter]

Not sure what you're asking.

Ayan Rand, name it then you can understand it and how to deal with it. Not really a question.
The crazy virtual stuff we deal with. (I'm new to social stuff, since RP, my wife says I'm asbugers or something, but anyway, I'm learning, but not sure I like what I see, I'm also drinking tonite, my neighbor died and he's my age).

 

[sailingaway]

I'm not holding my breath about this. Don't know about the guy.

At the moment, I believe the delegates are unbound by default. That prior court case and all. What if the plan is to bring up this court case again and botch it?

What other lawyers are involved with this? Can anyone confirm his credentials?

-t

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing as the hypothetical down side, that they are really on the other side trying to change case law they don't like. I don't know what to say, obviously I can't swear that isn't true, but it would be pretty unethical since the delegates are their clients and they have a duty to fight for their client's interests with all zeal.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I know he says that. I think he means their rules committee would change it and a majority would vote against us to get rid of it. Maybe it is possible but it would be a scandal. there is a threshold vote to be nominated mentioned in the media multiple times as a given and they decide they don't want to follow it after the threshold is met.
I agree that if there is a federal court order on the case and they pull that, a federal judge is likely to find that too cute, and make his displeasure felt. But I'm not as sure it is going to happen, I just don't know. He WAS trying to sell the case.

Yes, he was trying to sell it. I'm still thinking it through also. I'm still uneasy for some reason. He's says all the right stuff at the right time, except when LibertyEagle asked about the tweets, his response was odd and he acted unprepared for that.

 

[No1butPaul]

Yeah, that's what I'm hearing as the hypothetical down side, that they are really on the other side trying to change case law they don't like. I don't know what to say, obviously I can't swear that isn't true, but it would be pretty unethical since the delegates are their clients and they have a duty to fight for their client's interests with all zeal.

I still do not get what some are seeing as the downside. Assuming delegates are unbound, our numbers are not there! This strategy strips Romney of his delegates and opens the whole thing up. We would need others to throw their hats in the ring to deny Romney the magic number. It is the only way to get RP as the nominee.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I still do not get what some are seeing as the downside. Assuming delegates are unbound, our numbers are not there! This strategy strips Romney of his delegates and opens the whole thing up. We would need others to throw their hats in the ring to deny Romney the magic number. It is the only way to get RP as the nominee.

But, how will those outside of our world react? Will they still follow the presumed nominee stuff or go, "wow, I'm free, now what"?

 

[No1butPaul]

Yes, he was trying to sell it. I'm still thinking it through also. I'm still uneasy for some reason. He's says all the right stuff at the right time, except when LibertyEagle asked about the tweets, his response was odd and he acted unprepared for that.

He was unprepared because it has no bearing on this case. He answered every relevant question and knows what he is talking about. Some people were confused, that's true, but I think it is because of the complexities, not for Richard's lack of knowledge or experience.

 

[sailingaway]

Yes, he was trying to sell it. I'm still thinking it through also. I'm still uneasy for some reason. He's says all the right stuff at the right time, except when LibertyEagle asked about the tweets, his response was odd and he acted unprepared for that.

there were a few times when it happened, but it might be just a salesman type guy used to being able to gloss over points he hasn't studied up on yet. I've known trial attorneys that don't really get immersed in the facts until shortly before they walk into the court room. But I don't know. Still mulling it over.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

He was unprepared because it has no bearing on this case. He answered every relevant question and knows what he is talking about. Some people were confused, that's true, but I think it is because of the complexities, not for Richard's lack of knowledge or experience.

It's not that complex, if you can't explain it to your grandmother then you don't really understand it yourself (Einstein?).
Complexity is added to confuse, not to explain or solve.

edit: He seemed unprepared that someone would look back and see it, that he would be vetted.

 

[sailingaway]

But, how will those outside of our world react? Will they still follow the presumed nominee stuff or go, "wow, I'm free, now what"?

A lot are really doing it for party solidarity. I think Romney would have to be damaged goods, which he might well be IF this law suit was successful because fraud at the conventions would be everywhere by that point. However, today if they just said 'you can vote your conscience' a ton of the party types would just say to themselves "Yes, and I will vote the way I am supposed to, because I am a good little delegate....'

 

[No1butPaul]

But, how will those outside of our world react? Will they still follow the presumed nominee stuff or go, "wow, I'm free, now what"?

I think that depends largely on who else throws their hat in the ring. I think Richard said he had conversations with others, but I'm not certain ... maybe he just said he had laid the groundwork.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

A lot are really doing it for party solidarity. I think Romney would have to be damaged goods, which he might well be IF this law suit was successful because fraud at the conventions would be everywhere by that point. However, today if they just said 'you can vote your conscience' a ton of the party types would just say to themselves "Yes, and I will vote the way I am supposed to, because I am a good little delegate....'

And that's the problem, the lawsuit about fraud comes after the convention (RICO?). There was a caller that asked the question about those that applied to be delegates but were cheated in their local conventions...And therein lies the entire problem, MSM and fraud and cheating and etc..etc..etc.. that has totally corrupted any chance of knowing what the real result at this point would have been.
So, we are working with what we have, here, now.

 

[No1butPaul]

It's not that complex, if you can't explain it to your grandmother then you don't really understand it yourself (Einstein?).
Complexity is added to confuse, not to explain or solve.

edit: He seemed unprepared that someone would look back and see it, that he would be vetted.

Are you kidding? Everyone seemed confused by the questions they were asking. I hope a lot of people got the gist after the call. I think Richard was very patient to stay on the call until every single question was answered and there were no more calls.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I think that depends largely on who else throws their hat in the ring. I think Richard said he had conversations with others, but I'm not certain ... maybe he just said he had laid the groundwork.

He talked about getting other potentials, like Gingrinch and Palin, to cash in to prevent Romney from getting the 1144, since everyone would be unbound. Not sure how that works for a 1st round.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Are you kidding? Everyone seemed confused by the questions they were asking. I hope a lot of people got the gist after the call. I think Richard was very patient to stay on the call until every single question was answered and there were no more calls.

The answers were confusing only because they talked about "today" then "tomorrow", like depending on rule 40 but then how rule 40 isn't needed if everyone is unbound (since rule 40 could be changed), etc...(I talked about that in an earlier post in this thread).

edit: and I'm not kidding about complexity, just take a look at our monetary system.

 

[No1butPaul]

This is the impression I'm starting to get. Everyone realizes we have ZERO chance of winning the nomination at this point, yet many people feel this is not a "we have nothing to lose situation." I think people fear this will somehow end in embarrasment and it will hurt everything we have built in the liberty movement. I just am not on board with that thinking. We could not have been marginalized much more. I think some things were done out of respect for Ron Paul, but without him, the GOP looks at our movement with disgust. I understand the goal was to become the GOP, but rules are going to change fast after this and without Ron Paul, there is just not going to be the same enthusiasm - I'm sorry to say that.

This is our chance, right now. Things are only going to get much, much harder. The forces we are up against are just too great.

B/t/w - I am with Richard -- if the ruling goes our way, we will have a good chance to REALLY win the nomination. I believe.

PS -- who said REVOLUTION was going to be pretty and neat. Did everyone think REVOLUTION was just a stupid campaign slogan?

PSS -- I like Richard - the fire burns in his soul like it does mine.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

@No1butPaul,

I understand your grasping at something because it "seems" it's a thread to hold on to, BUT, and this is a big but (I like big...n/m), if Ron can get a real nomination from the floor to be nominated to be the nominee, then he can have an unedited speach that can and will turn the hearts of delegates to the idea and reality of freedom and liberty, on..his...own...in...his...own...right.

 

[WhistlinDave]

Here's the thing about Rule 40: It doesn't say anything about votes, or "bound" delegates, or "unbound" delegates. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how delegates are voting, from the wording of it. It simply says that to be placed into nomination, you have to "demonstrate the support of a plurality of the delegates" from 5 states. That may not be verbatim, I will get the link momentarily. But it says "support of" not "votes from" or "delegates in your bound pocket" or anything else. It just says support.

So I'm still unsure that unbinding the delegates matters either way with regard to needing 5 states; if the RNC says Rule 40 applies, it has nothing to do with how people vote, it's saying you need to demonstrate "the support of" delegates in order to have your name placed into nomination. Perhaps this should be an additional question in the lawsuit: "Does Rule 40 still apply if it means that delegates cannot vote their conscience, voting for whomever they choose?"

In other words, do you need to "have your name placed into nomination" before delegates can vote their conscience, and vote for you?

 

[WhistlinDave]

Here it is:

http://www.gop.com/images/legal/2008_RULES_Adopted.pdf

See Rule 40...

 

[No1butPaul]

@No1butPaul,

I understand your grasping at something because it "seems" it's a thread to hold on to, BUT, and this is a big but (I like big...n/m), if Ron can get a real nomination from the floor to be nominated to be the nominee, then he can have an unedited speach that can and will turn the hearts of delegates to the idea and reality of freedom and liberty, on..his...own...in...his...own...right.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, because I'm not trying to be Clyde -- if I could speak these words instead of write them, you would know that by my tone. I am not grasping at something ... this is the only REAL possibility. There is no other way and I think to think otherwise would be grasping at something. We don't have the numbers, even unbound. We will need other people in the mix -- this is the only way.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Here it is:

http://www.gop.com/images/legal/2008_RULES_Adopted.pdf

See Rule 40...

See, now there is a problem with what Richard said in the call, he stated that Rule 40 was originally created for VicePresident, yet it states "clearly":

RULE NO. 40
Nominations
(a) In making the nominations for President
of the United States and Vice President of the United
States and voting thereon,...