Update: Just spoke to bus companies

[nayjevin]

Anyway. Who am I? Who are you (nay)?

A potential donor to your request for $200,000.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I think this is what he is referring to specifically.

Thanks roxi. It just looks like an option to me. Heck, Rand used a template too. If we want to create our own, fine. But, seriously, and no offense intended, but in my opinion, Rachel has been attacked since she pitched this idea. There is no reason why we have to take her recommendation on every step of the execution and I would think she would be open to that if we came up with something better. But, the basis of her plan seems darned good. It seems to me that we should be talking about HOW we want to identify the likely voters, WHO is going to line out the buses and that entire plan, etc. Right now, we just seem to be attacking someone who has stepped up with a plan. I think it's pretty sad, actually.

 

[nayjevin]

All expenditures of the grassroots PAC are going to be transparent. The website is DONE. We got some donations toward it, and it's done. We were able to put together a similar website to the one I used as an example using donations we received from people who understand the importance of this project. Mike Maresco is on board with the organization as well, so, contrary to popular belief, we are not a bunch of boogymen trying to steal money. We are all volunteering our time, skills, and knowledge toward this initiative. Every dime we raise will be going straight toward action.

I'll believe it when he reads this entire thread and responds. He's as busy as anyone and I'm sure he's glad to see something being done. But I see no evidence that he's looked into the details.

There are probably 100 questions of mine in this thread unanswered. And no reasoning except secrecy.

You have yet to provide information that you ought to. And you've been hostile to those who have asked for it.

Michael is a great example of a person who understands how grassroots projects should be handled. You should read his threads where he does so. This project and the way you've gone about it is nothing like that.

 

[nayjevin]

Thanks roxi. It just looks like an option to me. Heck, Rand used a template too. If we want to create our own, fine. But, seriously, and no offense intended, but in my opinion, Rachel has been attacked since she pitched this idea. There is no reason why we have to take her recommendation on every step of the execution and I would think she would be open to that if we came up with something better. But, the basis of her plan seems darned good. It seems to me that we should be talking about HOW we want to identify the likely voters, WHO is going to line out the buses and that entire plan, etc. Right now, we just seem to be attacking someone who has stepped up with a plan. I think it's pretty sad, actually.

You've totally misunderstood then. You should read the whole thread. Nothing but ideas have been questioned.

She has attacked me personally though - many, many times.

 

[RachelFaith]

A potential donor to your request for $200,000.

I didn't make a request. This is not a solicitation. This is a discussion. I am sure that when it gets to that point it will have two outcomes, you will be satisfied or you won't be. But you can't be right now, because it is happening, not happened.

 

[Roxi]

Generally speaking, if someone happens to have loose connections with an official campaign, they walk a fine line between what they can and cannot reveal on a grassroots forum. Just saying.

Okay, I get that, I worked loosely with the campaign before. Here's the thing though, you have been less than forthcoming about yourself. I appreciate the links in your signature, and had to do some checking on my own to find out who you were. We could have avoided a lot of arguing had you just done a better job explaining who you were the first time you were asked. After all my digging I am satisfied for the most part about you being legit. A lot more has been cleared up, which is all some of us were asking for in the first place. I can't speak for anyone else, but before I donate a lot of time or money to the PAC or the bus project I would like to know a bit more about you (if you are the one agreeing to run the website, and handle the donations for the project) Please correct me if this isn't the case. If you are heading that up, would you mind reviewing the points I made earlier and responding.

As for Rachel, she is giving no real indication of who she is, and she failed to answer any of my questions about her involvement and what she has to contribute to the project.

 

[nayjevin]

Heck, Rand used a template too.

The campaign would have a different frame for analysis of cost/benefit of division of labor than we do. Hiring out is a different question among grassroots than within the campaign.

Plus it has been many times ignored why existing tools will not do. For instance, a simple information $15 website, chipin, facebook, meetup, or whatever. I don't know all the tools available - but whatever discussion has been had about what tools are available has been done in private and ignored here.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Has anyone tried contacting Susan Wolfe? She's actually done this before.

As to identifying supporters, I threw up an idea a while back. Do a chipin for $360 and start 22 Meetup groups in the major cities controlled by supporters that were active locally last time. Have the organizers all join one Iowa Organizers group so they are all talking. We lost all but 3 IA meetups since last time and a bunch of those 40,000 orphaned supporters are in IA and would be automatically contacted when a RP meetup shows up within 50 miles of them.

-t

 

[Roxi]

All expenditures of the grassroots PAC are going to be transparent. The website is DONE. We got some donations toward it, and it's done. We were able to put together a similar website to the one I used as an example using donations we received from people who understand the importance of this project. Mike Maresco is on board with the organization as well, so, contrary to popular belief, we are not a bunch of boogymen trying to steal money. We are all volunteering our time, skills, and knowledge toward this initiative. Every dime we raise will be going straight toward action.

Thank you! This answers a lot of the questions I was referring to in the post above (I didn't see this until I hit reply) I know Michael personally, (so does nayjevin) and trust him completely. I hope you understand that no one was actually accusing you of being said boogeyman, only asking for some kind of verification of who was running the show and who specifically that person was. I said this before, but we are all on the same side here, it is just that some of us who have been here a long time, and have seen scams come and go, are going to need real verification before putting in time, skills, and money toward this project.

 

[nayjevin]

Apparently there are fans of:

Governor Jan Brewer, Heartland Institute, The Cato Institute, Mike Pence, Joe Arpaio, Conservative, American Majority, Christians United for Israel (CUFI), The US Constitution, RightChange, Michelle Malkin, Michele Bachmann, Matt Schultz, Rush Limbaugh and the EIB Network, Campaign for Liberty, Proud to be an American, Bob Vander Plaats, Tea Party Patriots, The American Vision, Iowa For Freedom, Team Huck Iowa, Republican National Committee, Roy Moore, TEApublican, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Being Conservative, Fox News, Rand Paul, The Bible, The Bible, Can-Do Conservatives of America, Remember November, The Federalist Society, The Patriot Post, Mike Huckabee, FreedomWorks, NewsBusters.org, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Americans for Prosperity, Positively Republican!, The Heritage Foundation, FairTax.org, Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו, Christine O'Donnell for US Senate, Brannon Howse, LifeNews.com, Petition Obama: Reinstate the National Day of Prayer, Americans United for Life, Chuck DeVore, David Barton/WallBuilders, Pamela Gorman, Leadership Institute, National Federation of Republican Assemblies (NFRA), Foundation for Moral Law, Iowa FairTax, Steve Deace, The Family Leader, grassrootsIOWA.com, Congressman Steve King, Iowa GOP - The Official Page for Iowa Republicans, Iowa Federation of College Republicans, LUVIowa, 2012 Presidential Straw Poll, Tom Shaw for Iowa House, Calvin Coolidge, Charles Minimah

involved in this. If that doesn't send up red flags I don't know what will.

Joe Arpaio? Even if that is purely a networking/outreach move, it shows ZERO understanding of low-hanging fruit.

 

[nayjevin]

Still no one I have ever met in person in this thread aside from Roxi. Still no one in the world I have found who has met anyone in this thread in person aside from me meeting Roxi.

 

[Cowlesy]

The grass roots is part of the spontaneous order that will make or break the campaign. That does not mean you ignore the low hanging fruit.

Lobby for the buses and lets coordinate them. We had buses running for the Rally for the Republic... this is a lot more important.

I agree, we need to be pushing the boundaries on the tech and methods the official campaign is considering. Move them outside of their comfort zone by doing as much as possible as supporters

All of the money the campaign raises is for not if he does not benifit from the 6 months of publicity leading up to NH from an Ames win.

Do not assume we are too good to do something when in actuality we are being arrogant to the point of missing a vital step. Any job someone steps into will have an existing process. You damn well better have a full understanding of every motivation and factor before insisting on a replacement process. It is insanity to think that you can pull off any methods un-tried and untested and expect it to succeed. When failure is not an option this is unacceptable.

As much as we have an implicit trust in Ron for his principles he is not a sound byte guy. Do not epect him to articulate all that needs to be said without the benefit of those six months of publicity. Rand can help disseminate the message but we do have to contend with exactly the type of people that filled Romney's buses and put on those yellow Romney tea-shirts in 2008.

Tea Shirts create a security and a mental community.. They work!
Buses work!
Rented party slides and bounce houses work.


Nullify those people with our own people and our own buses!

Use the money from the campaign or raise it ourselves

Then move on to bigger and better things.

I preface my comments below in that my settings are set to 40-posts-per-page (I think), and I read through the end of Page 3.

Great post, Ethek.

Jay -- Understand your concerns and point of view, but why not let the Iowans and the bus people setup what they want to do, and run with it? Decentralization ftw.

Bus people -- No offense ronpaulnation.org and rachelfaith, I have zero idea who you are, I'm not going to PM you to find out, so obviously I cannot donate to support your plan.

Unfortunately you're going to have to take the risk to seed your idea, pitch it to Ron Paul supporters in Iowa, and get those verified supporters to publicly back your plan before you can even start to think about soliciting donations from strangers.

I know that might seem standoff'ish, but consider that members on this forum, amongst Ron Paul supporters on the internet, have been torched over and over by strangers popping up and asking for dough.

I'm not saying you're both strangers -- perhaps you've identified yourself, made links to verified supporters, in other threads. That totally could be the case. Sorry, I haven't read all these threads.

I'm saying that if you want to start a website (yes we have website people here but I am talking a cando.com level website) and solicit what could be large sums of money, you need to have a public, verified team ahead of time, and probably already have a start to your process. Have you talked to Drew Ivers about this? Ani DeGroot?

Otherwise, you're going to have a very hard slog of it raising money. Too many people have been burned too many times on this forum. It raises their hackles, which makes it even harder to get a project off the ground.

There are lots of Iowa supporters in the C4L and the 2008 PCC already in Iowa. When you're ready to really make a cash push, after verifying that you aren't doing something redundant with the campaign, you need a coordinated push from verified public Iowa supporters to the forum. That'll be how you'll get the trust/confidence of the random forum-goer to know they aren't pissing away money they likely can't honestly afford to donate on "Admin fees or setup costs or "T&E"" for a project they don't know much about.

Most of us have big hearts and small wallets for projects, so we have to donate wisely.

Bussers, I like your ideas and want you to win, so keep planning.

Jay -- Agree with your ideas too; just don't see why it all can't be done concurrently.

 

[nayjevin]

Jay -- Understand your concerns and point of view, but why not let the Iowans and the bus people setup what they want to do, and run with it? Decentralization ftw.

My main concerns stem from the fact that none of the organizers have identified themselves as being in Iowa, being in contact with known, trusted organizers in Iowa, or having an understanding of the history of grassroots organization within the movement.

Jay -- Agree with your ideas too; just don't see why it all can't be done concurrently.

It can, and should be. I'm not in Iowa so I cannot lead by example, which is what I believe is needed. I would be glad to (and will) aide projects in any way I can. And feel it a responsibility to vet new proposals so that those who do not have much experience with this stuff have an informed opinion as protection from scams now and in the future.

 

[Roxi]

Thanks Cowlesy, I would give you rep for that but have already exceeded my 24 hour limit.

 

[MelissaWV]

Not convinced, so I won't toss in money. The market's a great thing sometimes

 

[Dave Aiello]

Apparently there are fans of:



involved in this. If that doesn't send up red flags I don't know what will.

Joe Arpaio? Even if that is purely a networking/outreach move, it shows ZERO understanding of low-hanging fruit.

That's sure not my facebook. Not sure who you're referring to.

 

[nayjevin]

That's sure not my facebook. Not sure who you're referring to.

LABIX, whom PM'ed me. It's in the thread!

 

[nayjevin]

// dup

 

[Cowlesy]

My main concerns stem from the fact that none of the organizers have identified themselves as being in Iowa, being in contact with known, trusted organizers in Iowa, or having an understanding of the history of grassroots organization within the movement.



It can, and should be. I'm not in Iowa so I cannot lead by example, which is what I believe is needed. I would be glad to (and will) aide projects in any way I can. And feel it a responsibility to vet new proposals so that those who do not have much experience with this stuff have an informed opinion as protection from scams now and in the future.

Oh I agree. Perhaps I was just concerned that we were coming off too distrusting with slamming the bus idea. I don't like to start off distrustful, just, not trusting, so a neutral position.

I really think we need buses to win.

From the forum volunteer staff perspective, we have to be sheepdogs about projects soliciting funds. Always. Anyone remember Granny Warriors? RonPaulRacing? These ideas were not started by people pretending to be Ron Paul supporters, but by pseudo supporters who saw a very giving public forum and took advantage. As a consequence of their actions, very very worthy projects now require a much higher hurdle of scrutiny. It's not a knock against new members' projects, but we consider it necessary, to the best of our ability, to make the fundraising process as transparent as possible in our little corner of the universe.

Off topic from this thread below.

As a general note to all our members here, remember the Ron Paul Blimp. The internet community raised over $400,000 to fly a stupid-ass blimp around, that didn't even get to New Hampshire for the primary because "oh yeah, weather anyone?" These were legitimate supporters that really did fly a blimp.

BUT, keep in mind that pseudo-supporters may remember that fundraising capacity, and attempt to take advantage of it.

We will do the best we can as the volunteer moderator team, but it's really up to the community to keep an eye on these projects.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why are we even talking about buying people in IA bus trips when we don't know what they want or where they are. Shouldn't we be focused on reconstituting RP groups in IA and letting them decide? Sure, some area are going to have a lot of supporters and will want a bus. Other areas may have few supporters and a bus would be a total waste.

For one event we planned down here, we found out we had a supporter who drove a bus for a church and could borrow it. Maybe there is a person or 3 like that in IA?

Maybe for some areas renting vans would make more sense. That and you can drive - you don't need to rent a driver with a CDL.

Lets get the groups in IA restarted and see what THEY want and how much support we have where.

Cart before horse - anyone?

-t