Trump to go after H1B visa abuse next.

[Ender]

Yes, and foreigners who get STEM degrees are taking away jobs from American tech workers who can competently do the job despite not having the STEM degree. From the article i posted above:

The education/work system is messed up; most people do not find a job in their degree. You almost have to have a degree nowadays to work at McDonalds.

Gov should be out of the education system and out of the business system. Period.

 

[Madison320]

Question for charrob and timosman: Are you in favor of protectionism for goods also? Or just services?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

58% of H1B visa holders have a masters degree or higher. 100% hold at least a Bachelor's degree or its equivalent.
Contrary to the argument that tech companies are seeking cheap labor, H1B costs employers more. H1B visa engineers earn $5,000 more than their American born engineer counterparts. Additionally, the employer must spend an additional $10,000+ per visa holder for legal fees and costs. Additionally they pay all or a portion of travel and housing relocation to obtain the talent. They pay the added costs because that is what the individual's specialized knowledge, skill, experience commands. That is what the market will bear for the specialized talent. It is also no secret that the bulk of the H1Bs go to individuals form China and India - both very large countries with great science and engineering programs and focus. Together their populations are 1.4 billion. From such a large population to draw upon you will inevitably find exceptionally talented individuals. The H1B visa allows the US to compete for the very top .001% the rest of the world has to offer, and the capped restricted availability of H1Bs means any US company must use the H1B very selectively, which is what we find.

Sounds good on paper, almost like a lobbyist paper. Those of us familiar with the dirty details know that isn't how it always works.

 

[specsaregood]

Sounds good on paper, almost like a lobbyist paper. Those of us familiar with the dirty details know that isn't how it always works.

I recall a guy I had to work with that had a Masters degree in "Webmastery". I laughed pretty good at that.

 

[timosman]

Sounds good on paper, almost like a lobbyist paper. Those of us familiar with the dirty details know that isn't how it always works.

Almost every statement is BS. Let's see the most interesting ones.

Together their populations are 1.4 billion. From such a large population to draw upon you will inevitably find exceptionally talented individuals.

H1B program is racist. Africa is 1.2 billion and is definitely underrepresented in the program.


H1B visa engineers earn $5,000 more than their American born engineer counterparts.

Isn't this discriminatory?

Additionally, the employer must spend an additional $10,000+ per visa holder for legal fees and costs.

Lawyers are in on this scam too?

 

[timosman]

I recall a guy I had to work with that had a Masters degree in "Webmastery". I laughed pretty good at that.

We have UX designers now.

 

[AZJoe]

Study Finds No Shortage of High-Tech Workers in U.S.:

The title is inaccurate. Its conclusions are flawed. What the study found was that there was no shortage of STEM Bachelor's degrees (science, technology, engineering, math), which is not synonymous with high level technology workers.
For one, the study did not address higher level Master's or Ph.D STEM degrees.
Additionally, just as all Bachelor's degrees are not alike, neither are all STEM bachelor's degrees. For instance wildlife ecology, forest management, archaeology, anthropology, etc., are all degrees that are include in the STEM Bachelor's degrees. However they have very little demand in the marketplace outside of perhaps academia, teaching or government.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The title is inaccurate. Its conclusions are flawed. What the study found was that there was no shortage of STEM Bachelor's degrees (science, technology, engineering, math), which is not synonymous with high level technology workers.
For one, the study did not address higher level Master's or Ph.D STEM degrees.
Additionally, just as all Bachelor's degrees are not alike, neither are all STEM bachelor's degrees. For instance wildlife ecology, forest management, archaeology, anthropology, etc., are all degrees that are include in the STEM Bachelor's degrees. However they have very little demand in the marketplace outside of perhaps academia, teaching or government.

You are an advocate for H1B. Where do you get your information?

 

[oyarde]

I recall a guy I had to work with that had a Masters degree in "Webmastery". I laughed pretty good at that.

That means he should know all the good porn sites ?

 

[timosman]

You are an advocate for H1B. Where do you get your information?

From my neckbeard buddies.

 

[specsaregood]

You are an advocate for H1B. Where do you get your information?

I remember when I worked for a mortgage bank and the IT floor was about 50% americans, 50% H1-B visa holders. They were having a big round of layoffs and I found out that every single person being laid off was an American, no visa holders. I asked my boss why, he said because if the H1-b visa holders were laid off, they would have to return home and that was unfair AND the company would have to pay for the plane tickets for them and their families... It wasn't because they were better or indispensable. That company folded after the mortgage bust. good riddance, but I imagine that attitude has only gotten worse in corp America.

fwiw: I was not laid off because I was indispensable, but I saw the way the wind was blowing and quit a few weeks later.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I remember when I worked for a mortgage bank and the IT floor was about 50% americans, 50% H1-B visa holders. They were having a big round of layoffs and I found out that every single person being laid off was an American, no visa holders. I asked my boss why, he said because if the H1-b visa holders were laid off, they would have to return home and that was unfair AND the company would have to pay for the plane tickets for them and their families... It wasn't because they were better or indispensable. That company folded after the mortgage bust. good riddance, but I imagine that attitude has only gotten worse in corp America.

fwiw: I was not laid off because I was indispensable, but I saw the way the wind was blowing and quit a few weeks later.

Yeah, those of us with real world experience have examples that contradict pretty much every claim made by the H1B lobby.

It doesn't matter. People believe what they want to believe, and no amount of explaining will change anyone's mind until they experience things first hand. And then you have those with vested interests in the system.

 

[Madison320]

Yeah, those of us with real world experience have examples that contradict pretty much every claim made by the H1B lobby.

It doesn't matter. People believe what they want to believe, and no amount of explaining will change anyone's mind until they experience things first hand. And then you have those with vested interests in the system.

Are you in favor of protectionism for goods also? Or just services?

Suppose H1Bs were eliminated. Would you be in favor of criminal penalties for businesses that hire foreign workers under the table?

 

[jmdrake]

58% of H1B visa holders have a masters degree or higher. 100% hold at least a Bachelor's degree or its equivalent.
Contrary to the argument that tech companies are seeking cheap labor, H1B costs employers more. H1B visa engineers earn $5,000 more than their American born engineer counterparts. Additionally, the employer must spend an additional $10,000+ per visa holder for legal fees and costs. Additionally they pay all or a portion of travel and housing relocation to obtain the talent. They pay the added costs because that is what the individual's specialized knowledge, skill, experience commands. That is what the market will bear for the specialized talent. It is also no secret that the bulk of the H1Bs go to individuals form China and India - both very large countries with great science and engineering programs and focus. Together their populations are 1.4 billion. From such a large population to draw upon you will inevitably find exceptionally talented individuals. The H1B visa allows the US to compete for the very top .001% the rest of the world has to offer, and the capped restricted availability of H1Bs means any US company must use the H1B very selectively, which is what we find.

^This.

Sounds good on paper, almost like a lobbyist paper. Those of us familiar with the dirty details know that isn't how it always works.

I just explained to everyone the "dirty details" based on my own "personal experience." Again, as an undergraduate the overwhelming majority of lab instructor for physics and chemistry were foreign born Asians! Serious, race (black and white) no longer mattered. Everyone wanted to get a native English speaking lab instructor. The reason the lab instructors were foreign born Asian is that most of the graduate students were foreign born Asian. I had one white lab instructor in physics out of three physics courses and one black chemistry instructor. (He graduated from the same HBCU that I attended before transferring to UAB.) When I went to graduate school for computer science the overwhelming majority of graduate students were foreign born Asian and East Indian/Pakistani. Whites and blacks were tiny minorities by comparison. This was in Birmingham Alabama which isn't exactly an international city. Now for a lot of jobs a graduate degree doesn't matter. You don't need a graduate degree to build a website. But to build the next generation of Alexa? Yeah, that's pretty high brow comp sci. Why aren't there more native born U.S. going into advanced degrees in physics, chemistry, comp sci and math? Probably because people smart enough to do that are more likely to go into medicine or law. I'm guessing though.

 

[LibForestPaul]

So, using your logic, the government should restrict the supply of avocados from Mexico? To drive up the price and help the US farmers?

Blah, blah, blah/ As long as the man points a gun at my head, cops get guaranteed public pensions, Haliburton gets no bid contracts, the state stops licensing interior decorating, H1Bs stay home. When all the other bullshit is fixed, then we can talk "freedom".

 

[jmdrake]

Yeah, those of us with real world experience have examples that contradict pretty much every claim made by the H1B lobby.

It doesn't matter. People believe what they want to believe, and no amount of explaining will change anyone's mind until they experience things first hand. And then you have those with vested interests in the system.

And what about those of us with real world experience that contradicts the claims you are making? Our experience doesn't count?

 

[specsaregood]

And what about those of us with real world experience that contradicts the claims you are making? Our experience doesn't count?

No it doesn't. There, feel better now?

 

[Madison320]

Blah, blah, blah/ As long as the man points a gun at my head, cops get guaranteed public pensions, Haliburton gets no bid contracts, the state stops licensing interior decorating, H1Bs stay home. When all the other bull$#@! is fixed, then we can talk "freedom".

Why bother posting at all in a libertarian forum? That could be the answer for every possible argument.

"Should we legalize drugs?" "Not as long as the man points a gun at my head".

"Should we go to a flat tax?" "Not as long as the man points a gun at my head".

 

[timosman]

Why bother posting at all in a libertarian forum? That could be the answer for every possible argument.

"Should we legalize drugs?" "Not as long as the man points a gun at my head".

"Should we go to a flat tax?" "Not as long as the man points a gun at my head".

You still do not get it.

 

[jmdrake]

No it doesn't. There, feel better now?

LOL