Trump to go after H1B visa abuse next.

[Madison320]

Did you get lost again?

???

 

[specsaregood]

I don't agree with Ron Paul on open borders. On this issue i agree with the likes of Pat Buchanan and Trump.

Ron Paul is not for open borders either, except in a theoretical environment.

 

[Madison320]

I don't agree with Ron Paul on open borders. On this issue i agree with the likes of Pat Buchanan and Trump.

I'm against people coming here and getting welfare and voting for socialism. But that's not the case here is it? You don't have a right to a job. It's owned by the business owner. Any Austrian economist will tell you that hiring lower cost workers is good for productivity and good for the economy. It sucks for the worker but it's good for the consumers. That's the side of the equation you're leaving out. It's the same logic as automation. Lower cost machines replace higher cost labor. Yes it sucks temporarily for the worker until he finds a new job, but he didn't have a right to it.

 

[nikcers]

I think that most people invest in their communities, its government policy that has caused so much money to go abroad, its their way of insuring financial MAD. It's why Mexico hates their life right now and can't do dick all about it.

 

[jmdrake]

LOL. Didn't you know, they are the best and brightest. They do the work that Americans are too stupid to do.

When I was in college most of the chemistry and physics lab instructors were foreigners typically from China. Nice but you couldn't understand a word they said. When I went to graduate school in computer science most were foreigners from China, India and Pakistan. This was at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. If most of the people getting advanced degrees in these fields are foreigners.......?

 

[nikcers]

Ron Paul is not for open borders either, except in a theoretical environment.

Liberty?

 

[timosman]

If most of the people getting advanced degrees in these fields are foreigners.......?

Americans work in sales, marketing and product management. Nobody makes anything.

 

[specsaregood]

Liberty?

indeed, and we don't live in such a world.

 

[charrob]

Any Austrian economist will tell you that hiring lower cost workers is good for productivity and good for the economy. It sucks for the worker but it's good for the consumers. That's the side of the equation you're leaving out.

The side of the equation you are leaving out is that American consumers, who used to have good paying middle class jobs, can no longer afford to buy things because they were fired by greedy businesses importing low wage foreign labor or because their wages have been driven down by the oversupply of foreign labor. Keeping it in the country keeps the supply/demand in balance. Oversupplying labor as our country has done since the 1990s if not before drives down wages and destroys the middle class.

It's the same logic as automation. Lower cost machines replace higher cost labor. Yes it sucks temporarily for the worker until he finds a new job, but he didn't have a right to it.

Automation _creates_ good new jobs for Americans: and it drives up living standards. Unfettered immigration drives down living standards in a race to the bottom. The two are completely opposite in the final effect on the living standards of Americans.

There may be some advanced fields where a small number of H1b visas would be appropriate -- where employers definitely are unable to find Americans that can do that work; but in most cases I disagree with screwing highly skilled competent Americans by hiring low-wage foreigners that are simply willing to live 5 families to an apartment and work 80 hours a week and get paid for 40.

It's really no use arguing about it. Nothing will change my mind and nothing will change yours. Please, let's just leave it at that.

 

[nikcers]

Americans work in sales, marketing and product management. Nobody makes anything.

We have been out gunning and oiling Russia, and the cold war looms on. We're producing more oil then we have ever in 50 years.

 

[agitator]

The side of the equation you are leaving out is that American consumers, who used to have good paying middle class jobs, can no longer afford to buy things because they were fired by greedy businesses importing low wage foreign labor or because their wages have been driven down by the oversupply of foreign labor. Keeping it in the country keeps the supply/demand in balance. Oversupplying labor as our country has done since the 1990s if not before drives down wages and destroys the middle class.




Automation _creates_ good new jobs for Americans: and it drives up living standards. Unfettered immigration drives down living standards in a race to the bottom. The two are completely opposite in the final effect on the living standards of Americans.

There may be some advanced fields where a small number of H1b visas would be appropriate -- where employers definitely are unable to find Americans that can do that work; but in most cases I disagree with screwing highly skilled competent Americans by hiring low-wage foreigners that are simply willing to live 5 families to an apartment and work 80 hours a week and get paid for 40.

It's really no use arguing about it. Nothing will change my mind and nothing will change yours. Please, let's just leave it at that.

Yep, Henry Ford paid his workers well for a reason.

 

[timosman]

We have been out gunning and oiling Russia, and the cold war looms on. We're producing more oil then we have ever in 50 years.

Totally agree. We should send some H1Bs your way.

 

[Madison320]

The side of the equation you are leaving out is that American consumers, who used to have good paying middle class jobs, can no longer afford to buy things because they were fired by greedy businesses importing low wage foreign labor or because their wages have been driven down by the oversupply of foreign labor.

Keynesian 101. Using your logic we can fix the problem by making the minimum wage $100 an hour.

 

[timosman]

Yep, Henry Ford paid his workers well for a reason.

The government is oversupplying labor. Is this simple enough?

 

[charrob]

Keynesian 101. Using your logic we can fix the problem by making the minimum wage $100 an hour.

I disagree with a minimum wage. Without an unfettered supply of immigration, the supply/demand ratio stabilizes and a minimum wage is not needed.

 

[Ender]

Keynesian 101. Using your logic we can fix the problem by making the minimum wage $100 an hour.

Yep. People have lived in The Matrix so long that it is perceived as the real world.

Fixing the system means:

Get rid of the FED
Bring back the gold standard
Take away the welfare/warfare state
Get gov out of business
Reinstate REAL Capitalism (what we have now is mercantilism)
Let businesses operate how they please and hire whom they please

This will allow everyone to flourish-

 

[nikcers]

Totally agree. We should send some H1Bs your way.

H1b's are just a symptom of government subsidizing our tech industry. Tech companies pushed for the handouts for the cheap labor and because labor was hard to find in certain industries so it kept those industries in those communities. It's not your fault being a nerd wasn't cool when the tech industry needed a bunch of talent. I don't see government subsidizes going away but they might shift the money around I guess.

 

[jmdrake]

Americans work in sales, marketing and product management. Nobody makes anything.

Whatever. Take a tour of a local university science graduate school and get back with me. Fretting over H1Bs when the issue is most of people getting advanced degrees in science are not U.S. born is silly.

 

[Madison320]

The government is oversupplying labor. Is this simple enough?

So when you buy a cheap avocado from Mexico, the government is oversupplying avocados?

 

[timosman]

So when you buy a cheap avocado from Mexico, the government is oversupplying avocados?

By controlling the avocado quotas the government would effectively control the price of avocados on the free market.