Trump election panel asks all 50 states for voter roll data

[Swordsmyth]

Your article 4 argument makes no sense whatsoever, and the article 1 argument only applies if you just conveniently forget that article 1 is about the legislature and not the executive.


Edit: According to the Supreme Court, Article 4 enforcement is also a matter for the legislature. So that once's out too. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/48/1/

Since the executive branch is tasked with carrying out the laws that congress has created, then if congress has made a law to deal with voter fraud then that would authorize Dump to act on it, I am not an expert on federal voting law but I would be highly surprised if there is not a law about it.

P.S. Both you and the supreme court are wrong about Article 4.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Edit: According to the Supreme Court, Article 4 enforcement is also a matter for the legislature. So that once's out too. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/48/1/

Just where in that case did they say that?

 

[TheCount]

Since the executive branch is tasked with carrying out the laws that congress has created, then if congress has made a law to deal with voter fraud then that would authorize Dump to act on it, I am not an expert on federal voting law but I would be highly surprised if there is not a law about it.

What law enacted and empowered Trump's Committee?

P.S. Both you and the supreme court are wrong about Article 4.

P.S. You're attempting some general welfare clause levels of extrapolating vast government powers that conveniently happen to align with your political views from text that says nothing of the sort.

 

[TheCount]

Just where in that case did they say that?

The court is wrong about it before you've even managed to find their argument? Fascinating.

 

[Swordsmyth]

What law enacted and empowered Trump's Committee?

If there is a law covering election fraud, then he does not need a law to create his committee.

 

[TheCount]

If there is a law covering election fraud, then he does not need a law to create his committee.

There's a law covering jaywalking. Can he create a committee to study jaywalking and use it to create a national database of the entire American population for the purpose of jaywalking prevention?

P.S. No.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The court is wrong about it before you've even managed to find their argument? Fascinating.

Yes I can read the constitution for myself, it says nothing about what branch is involved in article 4. Therefore all branches are involved.

 

[Swordsmyth]

There's a law covering jaywalking. Can he create a committee to study jaywalking and use it to create a national database of the entire American population for the purpose of jaywalking prevention?

There is no Federal law against jay-walking and there is no constitutional basis for one.

 

[TheCount]

There is no Federal law against jay-walking and there is no constitutional basis for one.

There's a federal law against credit card fraud. Can Trump, by executive order, create a national database of all Americans and all credit cards in order to prevent credit card fraud?

 

[Swordsmyth]

There's a federal law against credit card fraud. Can Trump, by executive order, create a national database of all Americans and all credit cards in order to prevent credit card fraud?

Voter records are already government records, financial data is not.
If you ask me the state should not be keeping "voter history from 2006 onward." and I do not think therefore that the feds have a right to that.
I already said "Federal investigation of voter fraud is therefore Constitutional, the details may not be."

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The magic word that gets neoconservatives to support national databases is terrorism.

The magic word that gets liberals to support national databases is "guns." Right, Count?

Can't have it both ways, Count.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You're attempting some general welfare clause levels of extrapolating vast government powers that conveniently happen to align with your political views from text that says nothing of the sort.

Hunh. TheCount is actually saying this? No, it can't be. It's a mistake!

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

It's about the future. If it helps you think about the children.

LOL.

 

[UWDude]

Voter records are already government records, financial data is not.

Guess The Count didn't think of that. He did however find a waste of space cartoon to post, as he oft does.

We have now seen The Count try to argue that the military, the borders, and elections do not fall under constitutional federal jurisdiction. He tries to cite things like he is a lawyer... ...but he is just a fail machine. It's funny.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The Count...is just a fail machine.

 

[TheCount]

Voter records are already government records, financial data is not.

Credit card usage is inter-state commerce, therefore under the purview of the federal government if we decide to get all 'every clause means everything we want' with the Constitution.

State ID records are also government records. Do you support REAL ID?

If you ask me the state should not be keeping "voter history from 2006 onward." and I do not think therefore that the feds have a right to that.

They actually requested voter data from 2000 onward.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Credit card usage is inter-state commerce, therefore under the purview of the federal government if we decide to get all 'every clause means everything we want' with the Constitution.

This is just lame, the "guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government" clause is in no way the same as the "interstate commerce" clause, and if it were you are still stuck with the clause giving congress power over federal elections, and the exectuive branches power to enforce federal election law.

State ID records are also government records. Do you support REAL ID?

Real ID forces the states to conform to certain standards for their state issued ID, and not just for voter ID, that is not the same as gathering and studying voter data that falls within the federal governments constitutional duty.

 

[CPUd]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881137079958241280

 

[TheCount]

This is just lame, the "guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government" clause is in no way the same as the "interstate commerce" clause, and if it were you are still stuck with the clause giving congress power over federal elections, and the exectuive branches power to enforce federal election law.

It's exactly the same. At least the interstate commerce clause says regulate. The word guarantee is even more vague. If the federal government drew the states' voting districts themselves, that could be said to be guaranteeing a republican form of government.

Real ID forces the states to conform to certain standards for their state issued ID, and not just for voter ID, that is not the same as gathering and studying voter data that falls within the federal governments constitutional duty.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General.--To be eligible to receive any grant or other type
of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall
participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver
license data, known as the ``Driver License Agreement'', in order to
provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the
motor vehicle databases of all other States.
(b) Requirements for Information.--A State motor vehicle database
shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:
(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and
identification cards issued by the State.
(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor
vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

 

[Swordsmyth]

It's exactly the same. At least the interstate commerce clause says regulate. The word guarantee is even more vague. If the federal government drew the states' voting districts themselves, that could be said to be guaranteeing a republican form of government.

No that would be :
ARTICLE I, SECTION 4, CLAUSE 1

The time, place, or manner of holding an election.

Guaranteeing a republican form of government means to ensure that the states are being run as republics, voter fraud converts a republican government into a dictatorship.

And ARTICLE I, SECTION 4, CLAUSE 1 gives the federal government jurisdiction anyway.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General.--To be eligible to receive any grant or other type
of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall
participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver
license data, known as the ``Driver License Agreement'', in order to
provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the
motor vehicle databases of all other States.
(b) Requirements for Information.--A State motor vehicle database
shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:
(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and
identification cards issued by the State.
(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor
vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

Real ID is an unfunded mandate in an area that is not part of the feds constitutional purview. However they get away with it because it is not strictly mandatory, I am against it but it is not the same at all, and it is not the subject of this thread so I will not get lost debating it's details.

Prove that what Dump is doing is unconstitutional on it's own merits if you can.