To Ron Paul's Atheist supporters....

[eldeeder]

As an Atheist... I am asking you to please stop the division you are creating between us and Christian (or any other religion) supporters over these pointless arguements of evolution and seperation of church and state.

Ron Paul is a Christian... and has Christian beliefs... but he is not now or never would be like the "Christian Leader" Huckabee. But he does believe in his freedom of speech and liberty to have his Christian beliefs. If you want us to have the same freedom of speech and liberty about Atheism... then you must respect him and other Christians.

We can live together... if we only do what Ron Paul has been fighting for all along... respect the Constitution. As an Atheist... I have absolutely 100% confidence that Ron Paul will fight for my freedom of liberty... just as much as he would for any Christian.

Congress shall make no law for or against any religion. And yes... Atheism is a religion. Repeat that over and over again... because that is what Ron Paul believes.

Either you want individual freedom and liberty to believe in anything you want and allow others the same freedom... or you do not. If you do not... then Ron Paul is not the right canidate for you.

I agree with you almost totally. The only thing i dont agree with is Atheism being a religon. It is not. There is no structure, scripture, or buildings. No songs to sing, and different ideas about the universe in general. If not believing in God is a religon, then so is not believing in batman.

On that note, let me stress how proud and united I feel with the christians on this forum. It really has given me a different perspective on christianity.

However, I do love to discuss these topics, and always as civil as possible. So If people are up for a friendly discussion, lets go for it.

I don't feel we are dividing the group at all. Its amazing that something like this movement can bring such a diverse group of intellegent, thinking people together. Im just proud to be a part of that.

 

[Mesogen]

Sorry to have pissed you off to no end... but the definition of religion is not confined to what you think it is. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

Anyway... the OP was not meant to start more arguing. As an Atheist... I didn't understand why other Atheists would be making posts saying they were going to jump ship and stop supporting him just because of Ron Paul's comments about evolution. That's all.

GO RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, why did you link to a definition that contradicts your position?

religion

noun

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Atheism is NONE of this.


If you want to see religion in action watch "Jesus Camp."

WHOA!

I watched it last night on A&E. Super scary stuff. The way they were able to totally brainwash those kids is pretty frightening.

 

[barcop]

Uh, why did you link to a definition that contradicts your position?

You do realize that the term religion has a broad spectrum of definition... don't you?

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion

I have been an Atheist for over 12 years and it takes just as much faith to not believe in a God as it does to believe in God. A true Atheist is just as devoted to Atheism as a true Christian is to Christianity. Both are belief systems based on religion definitions.

Go to an Atheist meeting sometime.... someone will always be preaching about not wanting to be preached to

 

[elahewu]

Agnostics are just atheists too pu**y to admit it. J/K

I'm not worried about Ron's religious beliefs. I believe that he wants to follow the Constitution and the law and that's what matters. The Constitution is neutral as far as religion goes. See 1st bill of rights

 

[Mesogen]

You do realize that the term religion has a broad spectrum of definition... don't you?

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion

I have been an Atheist for over 12 years and it takes just as much faith to not believe in a God as it does to believe in God. A true Atheist is just as devoted to Atheism as a true Christian is to Christianity. Both are belief systems based on religion definitions.

Go to an Atheist meeting sometime.... someone will always be preaching about not wanting to be preached to

Hmm. I've never heard of an atheist meeting. Anyway, I agree that completely denying the existence of the supernatural (or somehow outside this plane of existence) requires faith, since there's no way to know one way or another. Admitting that you don't know something is the most honest position to take when you really honestly don't know something.

Do(es) god(s) exist? Y/N? The most honest answer is "I don't know." Anything else is fooling yourself.

 

[Big Lou]

Atheism has its own dogma, that being, a higher power of some sort didn't create everything and thus every living thing had to evolve from primordial scum.

Not true. You seem to be making a flawed logic assumption here. I believe that there is no god, mostly because there is no evidence. Separate from that, scientific evidence leads me to believe that every living thing probably has a shared ancestor (that scum you referenced). I make no "A, therefore B" argument here.

Also, why is it so bad if we all did come from scum? Some of us find it fascinating and awe-inspiring that we share our ancestry with all living things, and that all life on Earth is connected. Maybe that is too humbling for some people to handle?

In the end, I don't care what Ron Paul's religion is, and I wouldn't really care if he said evolution was bullshit. He's running as a strict constitutionalist candidate for President. Would anyone care about the Pope's views on economics?

 

[MooCowzRock]

I still support, but don't say there is not a reason for Atheists to be wary. Ron Paul's voting record has supported laws that force the non-religious to support government officials promotion of religion, and to trump world views, like an amendment supporting a definition of human life.

Limiting people's rights to exercise their religion in schools, something the government has not right to do is especially constitutional. Aslong as something isnt limiting the rights of someone else, people have a right to practice their religion. And if a Muslim needs to pray 4 times a day, he should be allowed time to pray. If a Christian feels the need to pray, he should be allowed to, and not in any way limited from doing so by the government, otherwise that falls within the First Amendment clause of "limiting the free exercise."

Abortion and where life begins is not a purely Atheist versus Theist view, though. I'm a strong proponent of Evolution, and am relatively educated on the subject, and am also a very strong Atheist, but I consider life to begin at conception. I support the law Ron Paul proposed, even as an Atheist and Evolutionist, which proves that he hasnt done anything to promote any religious views that are unconstitutional or unAmerican/anti-freedom.

 

[Bowie]

You can't stop these kinds of debates; they are healthy, I think.

Civil debates are what improves humanity. (The Presidential "debates" ironically do not )

But it is paramount that we all have the self-esteem not to take such arguments personally and distinguish attacks on belief from attacks on character and respond accordingly.

 

[hypnagogue]

Atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position. That's all.

 

[WayOfTheDodo]

Atheism is NONE of this.

Indeed. Atheism is one single thing: Not believing in God.

You cannot create a system out of one single thing.

 

[Mesogen]

Or like bald is a hair color.

 

[RonPaulMania]

I agree with you almost totally. The only thing i dont agree with is Atheism being a religon. It is not. There is no structure, scripture, or buildings. No songs to sing, and different ideas about the universe in general. If not believing in God is a religon, then so is not believing in batman.

If you look at the word religion etymologically it comes from religere or "to reconnect" and it's classical definition is a "set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people about socieity", but the general meaning used in common English is that of a believers of a certain faith. Using the classical definition atheists are a religion as they have general beliefs about society that can be easily identifiable. Many atheists educated enough on the subject admit it's a religion.

On that note, let me stress how proud and united I feel with the christians on this forum. It really has given me a different perspective on christianity.

That's great. The point of the thread, and I agree, is the overall hostility to any mention of God and Church and State by Dr. Paul. It seems the personal moral issue of how to deal with this is undermining the campaign.

However, I do love to discuss these topics, and always as civil as possible. So If people are up for a friendly discussion, lets go for it.

How many are civil without name-calling? You cannot build up while tearing down each other.

I don't feel we are dividing the group at all. Its amazing that something like this movement can bring such a diverse group of intellegent, thinking people together. Im just proud to be a part of that.

I think such matters are becoming dividing if you look at the evidence on the board. I think the other issue is the age of the board. Younger people have a tendency to galvanize their views over everything and everyone, and when you get older you pick your battles. I don't agree with Dr. Paul on everything but I don't make it a federal case because no one comes close to his platform.

We should be uniting, but look at how many pro-evolution threads are started to incite anger. It's not a coincidence. Look at how many religion threads are started to incite anger. There is a common theme of anger to flame up the emotions of a religion. Us Christians call this the spirit of the diabolic as means to destroy and tear asunder.

We should unite and forget such debates. Not because free-speech shouldn't be permitted, but when the issue of getting probably the last elected official I think is ethical and honest before my death (and I'm 31) I think the stakes are much higher than the arguments of personal beliefs on issues not related to the platform of Dr. Paul.

 

[WayOfTheDodo]

If you look at the word religion etymologically it comes from religere or "to reconnect" and it's classical definition is a "set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people about socieity", but the general meaning used in common English is that of a believers of a certain faith. Using the classical definition atheists are a religion as they have general beliefs about society that can be easily identifiable.

This is incorrect. Atheism is just one single thing - the lack of belief in God. How do you make a set of something which is only one thing alone? The only thing atheists have in common is that they do not believe in God.

Is baldness a hair colour?

We should be uniting, but look at how many pro-evolution threads are started to incite anger. It's not a coincidence. Look at how many religion threads are started to incite anger. There is a common theme of anger to flame up the emotions of a religion. Us Christians call this the spirit of the diabolic as means to destroy and tear asunder.

That something evokes emotion does not mean that it is a religion.

Politics evokes emotion. Are libertarianism, socialism, etc. religions?

Your arguments are fallacious.

 

[RonPaulFTFW]

I haven't noticed any division.

I think christians take things too personal because they wish to convert people almost by mandate, but I haven't noticed much of it related to Paul supporters I know.

 

[Dr.3D]

Emm... I religiously brush my teeth twice a day.