Tired of the religious right putting down science

"Heaven" is a pipe dream. In all of human history, there has not been one shred of evidence to support its existence. You better enjoy your life while you have it because expecting a fake afterlife is a waste of time.

There are an awful lot of people who have had visions of heaven without the pipe.....
I find your statement fascinatingly contractictory because the whole thread is about a particle which mankind cannot possibly observe directly... isn't it?

Maybe people just need to lighten up and stop making excuses for why they can't accept science.

I don't think a single believer in this thread has chosen not to accept the Higgs Boson.
What I object to, and I assume what others object to, is the inflammatory name (thanks to Melissa for pointing out the point here) which does nothing to explain the particle, brings us no closer to understanding the particle, has no evidence to back up the claims behind the name, and serves only to undermine the teachings of various faiths.

And it turns out that there's more to the story here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#In_mainstream_media
"
Higgs, an atheist himself, is displeased that the Higgs particle is nicknamed the "God particle",[SUP][/SUP] because the term "might offend people who are religious".[SUP][/SUP] Lederman said he gave it a nickname because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,"[SUP][/SUP] and added that he chose "the God particle" because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing." "

LOL... but more seriously, this statement: "so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive", even though he wasn't trying to be offensive, still offends. This statement leads us to believe that his understanding of God is that He is elusive, and that's what he chose to teach. He should have just stuck with his principles and called it the Goddamn particle.....
 
You tell me. Why is it when someone survives a car wreck, it's God's divinity that saved him, yet when a child is raped and murdered it's God working in mysterious ways?

Not exactly. I don't look at it like that. Every event that happens in time is under the decree of God. Everything.

"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." - Isa 45:7
 
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I think the extreme science fundamentalists are even worse than the christians. To make it worse, most of them don't even understand science beyond a highschool level.
 
The evidence they found suggesting this thing they call the Higgs Boson is interesting, that's for sure. But that's about all it is. Our theoretical knowledge is already so incredibly far beyond our practical engineering applications of said knowledge, that there is really no reason to keep putting resources into this stuff. We need to let the market correct and let engineers and VCs figure out a way to use the knowledge we already have first.

Hell, Quantum Mechanics has been around for nearly a century now and we are still not close to having quantum computers.
 
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You tell me. Why is it when someone survives a car wreck, it's God's divinity that saved him, yet when a child is raped and murdered it's God working in mysterious ways?

It's a byproduct of a God that decided to create man in His image and to give man the gift of freewill. In the garden man had a choice to only eat from the good trees or to eat from the knowledge of good and evil. Whether you believe that as literal truth or figurative, the result is still the same. The evil in the world is the result of man's choice and the choices of his ancestors. God mercifully intervenes to put some limits on the effects of those choices in order for the maximum number of people to be saved. As someone else pointed out, this life is so small compared to eternity that at some point what happened in this life won't matter.
 
Because that is people lacking revelation from God grasping at straws. They know not the mind of God so they guess. The fact is, is that Jesus Christ has the power to heal all wounds, even the most horrible wounds you can think up, and not just reverse death but end it. Death has no meaning in the eternal things, all wounds are healed, and the knowledge of good and evil one gained her from either being the victim or the victimizer (and aren't we all both?) can still be retained. Death itself is ended in the Resurrection when every person is raised from death into immortality. Any injustice you can dream up, the Atonement of Jesus Christ ends.

That's a nice story.
 
Not at all. There have been thousands if not millions of accounts of people returning from the dead, or even being shown Heaven itself. Here is one such in depth vision given to the Prophet Joseph Smith: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng

The real fact is, is that there are plenty of proofs from across the spectrum of human existence that point to a life after death. You simply refuse to believe them or even study them. It would be comparable to me reading the article about the Higgs Boson and then saying, "Nope. Still don't believe it. And this 'proof' means nothing because as all intelligent people know, the Higgs Boson just doesn't exist." You start with a conclusion and then only accept what you want to be true and discount everything else you don't want to hear. In that way you're just as bad as those you denounce.

I know Heaven is real. I have at least 7,000 years of ancient and modern witnesses, witnesses counting into the millions, that Heaven is real. I have had a personal experience with God, and know how you can experiment upon what I have said and come to know of His reality as well if you truly wish to know.

These "heavenly" phenomenas have been scientifically explained. Often times it's chemical reactions in the brains, or dreams even that make people believe they are seeing bright lights, hovering, or seeing dead family members. People who want to believe will see what they want to see. There have been thousands of people who have claimed to have seen alien space crafts and aliens themselves. Are they all correct?
 
But there is proof. You're Muslim, if I remember correctly, or am I wrong? If you are then consider Mohammed's ascension into Heaven from Jerusalem, and his revelatory writings where Allah reveals Paradise in examples as the story of Adam and Eve and the Fall of Man. All of these are proofs of Heaven. Mohammed saw Heaven, even went there in vision.

It's proof that someone wrote something, not that heaven exists.
 
1. Do you believe in free will? I do. In fact I believe God holds the free will of man of such respect that He will not force man to obey His will. Rather God calls man to Him, entices us to choose Him, pleads for us to obey Him, but ultimately leaves the issue of obedience to our choice. Part of the main purpose of life is to experience the challenges of Earth life, to experience good form evil, and to learn to choose good from evil, to choose Him, Our Father, and to turn away form sin. But in order to have that legitimate choice, to use our free will for good, we have to have the power to use it for evil, because if you only have one choice, OBEY!, then you really have no choice at all. God is not responsible for evil, nor for do man's evil actions mean God does not love us. The only thing man's evil shows is that we are not using our agency of choice well. But you also seem to focus only on the great evils of mankind, and ignore the overwhelming incredible good. People volunteer to help one another, serve each other, feed the homeless, care for the sick, administer to the needy, and so much more everyday in front of you. Do not be blind to the incredible good God inspires in mankind as well.

You talk about the absence of a loving God. Perhaps you do not understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Alma teaches us that Christ would, "go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will ctake upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people. And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities." (Alma 7:11-12, Book of Mormon) What this means is that Jesus Christ, in addition to suffering for our individual sins also suffered for every individual sickness, weakness, and pain we would ever have, as individuals. That means when someone is raped, Christ suffered their exact pain. When someone has AIDS, He knows their exact pain, not just the generic pain of having AIDS. From the stubbing of your toe to the Holocaust and evil things you cannot even think of, he knows them for each sufferer as if He were them. He took upon Himself our pains so that He would know how to succor us perfectly, so that He could administer to those pains and through His infinite power heal those wounds completely and utterly, without even the "emotional scar". Just as Christ is the Healer of Bodies He is also the Healer of The Soul.

2. Actually I am not making assumptions. Peter gives us a clear way to understand the scriptures. He says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:20-21) So the scriptures are of no private authoritative interpretation (meaning that while can certainly find personal applicability in a scripture, your private understanding is not automatically the definitive meaning of that scripture). This is because the scripture, and prophecy, did not come by the private will of any man, but was revealed to them by the power of The Holy Ghost. If you want to understand a scripture, you must have the Holy Ghost and if you want a true authoritative meaning of a scripture it can only come by one of those who has the will of God revealed to them by the Holy Ghost. These men are called prophets. It is my testimony to you that God speaks today, calls prophets just as He did in old, and gives us guidance for modern life. The Prophet Joseph Smith was called by God and Jesus Christ personally in 1820, and since him there and been 16 modern Prophets and successive modern Apostles with the power and authority to speak for in teh name of God, receiving direct revelation from on High.

3. A fact? Really? I disagree. I am a biological organism, surely. But only in the most generic sense am I an "animal". Humanity is much more than "just an animal", for good or bad. A better truth is that I am a mortal spiritual son of God, fleshy and imperfect. I share many common traits with all other fleshy mortal creations, but by spirit comes from God and I am destined for much more than the "animals."

Using scripture to claim facts doesn't work. If you ask a scientist how the earth formed, he can provide you with plenty of scientific data collected over the years to do so. Your tactic would be to say, "Well the Bible says..."

Sorry, but years upon years of scientific discoveries bets the hell out of an ancient text any day. The earth is not flat.
 
There are an awful lot of people who have had visions of heaven without the pipe.....
I find your statement fascinatingly contractictory because the whole thread is about a particle which mankind cannot possibly observe directly... isn't it?



I don't think a single believer in this thread has chosen not to accept the Higgs Boson.
What I object to, and I assume what others object to, is the inflammatory name (thanks to Melissa for pointing out the point here) which does nothing to explain the particle, brings us no closer to understanding the particle, has no evidence to back up the claims behind the name, and serves only to undermine the teachings of various faiths.

And it turns out that there's more to the story here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#In_mainstream_media
"
Higgs, an atheist himself, is displeased that the Higgs particle is nicknamed the "God particle",[SUP][/SUP] because the term "might offend people who are religious".[SUP][/SUP] Lederman said he gave it a nickname because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,"[SUP][/SUP] and added that he chose "the God particle" because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing." "

LOL... but more seriously, this statement: "so crucial to our understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive", even though he wasn't trying to be offensive, still offends. This statement leads us to believe that his understanding of God is that He is elusive, and that's what he chose to teach. He should have just stuck with his principles and called it the Goddamn particle.....

It's all semantics.
 
Not exactly. I don't look at it like that. Every event that happens in time is under the decree of God. Everything.

"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." - Isa 45:7

So we have a cruel god then?
 
The evidence they found suggesting this thing they call the Higgs Boson is interesting, that's for sure. But that's about all it is. Our theoretical knowledge is already so incredibly far beyond our practical engineering applications of said knowledge, that there is really no reason to keep putting resources into this stuff. We need to let the market correct and let engineers and VCs figure out a way to use the knowledge we already have first.

Hell, Quantum Mechanics has been around for nearly a century now and we are still not close to having quantum computers.

And we'll never have them if scientists put the brakes on their research.
 
It's a byproduct of a God that decided to create man in His image and to give man the gift of freewill. In the garden man had a choice to only eat from the good trees or to eat from the knowledge of good and evil. Whether you believe that as literal truth or figurative, the result is still the same. The evil in the world is the result of man's choice and the choices of his ancestors. God mercifully intervenes to put some limits on the effects of those choices in order for the maximum number of people to be saved. As someone else pointed out, this life is so small compared to eternity that at some point what happened in this life won't matter.

Give me some examples of God's interventions.
 
And we'll never have them if scientists put the brakes on their research.

No, we have done plenty of theoretical research. The engineers need time to catch up with it. That was the entire point of my post, but I guess it went over your head.
 
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