Tired of the religious right putting down science

[tttppp]

You totally missed the point. Until this time in our history, this was the next big discovery. Years from now there will be even more and greater discoveries. You can't crap on one just because something else is on it's way to be found. One step at a time.

You missed the point. The universe is most likely infinite. If you are just going to make incremental discoveries, you can make an infinite amount of discoveries and still get nowhere. This discovery doesn't get us closer to anything meaningful.

 

[matt0611]

I am a Creationist, and have no issue at all with scientists doing science. I thought the discovery was kind of cool.

Me too. I don't see how the discovery of this particle effects anything I believe.

 

[matt0611]

Because that kind of god does not exist. Seems to me, the god that many believe in shouldn't have to attempt to make people's lives better, it should just do it. What kind of a god allows a holocaust to happen, or rape and murder to happen? What the hell happened to divine intervention? Seems this god took a major shit on mankind.

Divine intervention? Why do people think God owes us something? Just look at the state of humanity. If God were to give us what we really deserve he'd wipe us all out right now.

 

[fisharmor]

Because that kind of god does not exist. Seems to me, the god that many believe in shouldn't have to attempt to make people's lives better, it should just do it. What kind of a god allows a holocaust to happen, or rape and murder to happen? What the hell happened to divine intervention? Seems this god took a major shit on mankind.

This only demonstrates the impasse, and it goes both ways. Just as you can't comprehend the mindset which treats the individual as something of inherent value and yet treats mankind as inherently corrupted, so I cannot comprehend the mindset that considers the individual inherently no better than an insect, yet treats mankind as inherently able to judge the creator of the universe.

But you're making assumptions. You have no idea what the authors of ancient scriptures had intended. Many others have interpreted and taught the Bible in many ways over the years.

I make assumptions about Scripture in the same manner as the assumptions I make about the US Constitution - another document that people have been teaching various things about over the years.
It's actually pretty clear what the people who wrote both were thinking, if one bothers to look into it.

 

[Muwahid]

"God is mean cuz bad things happen!" / "If god existed x wouldn't happen!"

For the life of me I can't understand that argument. We're rewarded for hardship in the afterlife, and punished for our sins. When you go to a job and work hard you get compensated for it, if you slack off you get fired.

Is it possible the human mind isn't capable of comprehending everything, when a child dies, is it possible - if heaven exists - that it's a mercy to that child even though it makes us sad?

Our lives our blips on the timeline, we put so much emphasis into it instead of looking at the big picture. The so-called God that intervenes when something bad is going to happen wouldn't be a God it would be a human with human emotions and a human mentality. But you're clouded with your own sense of morality, right, wrong, and lack of wisdom which a God would ultimately posses. If an afterlife exists, then life isn't something to cling to is it? That's why atheists don't grasp this concept.

 

[MelissaWV]

I think the discovery is neat.

Having said that, I also think it's hilarious that someone is tired of the religious right putting down science, when this entire thing has been distilled down to the phrase "God particle." If that is not inviting religious ire, I don't know what is. Perhaps you could call your newest constellation the Jesus Penis, and then act surprised when someone has something negative to say.

 

[Toxic]

You missed the point. The universe is most likely infinite. If you are just going to make incremental discoveries, you can make an infinite amount of discoveries and still get nowhere. This discovery doesn't get us closer to anything meaningful.

And what do you consider to be scientifically "meaningful?"

 

[Toxic]

Divine intervention? Why do people think God owes us something? Just look at the state of humanity. If God were to give us what we really deserve he'd wipe us all out right now.

You tell me. Why is it when someone survives a car wreck, it's God's divinity that saved him, yet when a child is raped and murdered it's God working in mysterious ways?

 

[Toxic]

"God is mean cuz bad things happen!" / "If god existed x wouldn't happen!"

For the life of me I can't understand that argument. We're rewarded for hardship in the afterlife, and punished for our sins. When you go to a job and work hard you get compensated for it, if you slack off you get fired.

Is it possible the human mind isn't capable of comprehending everything, when a child dies, is it possible - if heaven exists - that it's a mercy to that child even though it makes us sad?

Our lives our blips on the timeline, we put so much emphasis into it instead of looking at the big picture. The so-called God that intervenes when something bad is going to happen wouldn't be a God it would be a human with human emotions and a human mentality. But you're clouded with your own sense of morality, right, wrong, and lack of wisdom which a God would ultimately posses. If an afterlife exists, then life isn't something to cling to is it? That's why atheists don't grasp this concept.

"Heaven" is a pipe dream. In all of human history, there has not been one shred of evidence to support its existence. You better enjoy your life while you have it because expecting a fake afterlife is a waste of time.

 

[Toxic]

I think the discovery is neat.

Having said that, I also think it's hilarious that someone is tired of the religious right putting down science, when this entire thing has been distilled down to the phrase "God particle." If that is not inviting religious ire, I don't know what is. Perhaps you could call your newest constellation the Jesus Penis, and then act surprised when someone has something negative to say.

Maybe people just need to lighten up and stop making excuses for why they can't accept science.

 

[Muwahid]

"Heaven" is a pipe dream. In all of human history, there has not been one shred of evidence to support its existence. You better enjoy your life while you have it because expecting a fake afterlife is a waste of time.

THERE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE OF IT!

Has the concept of God and the supernatural TOTALLY gone over your head?

 

[tttppp]

And what do you consider to be scientifically "meaningful?"

Something that explains the universe as a whole. Obsessing over every little detail of the universe is a complete waste of time and money.

 

[Yieu]

Something that explains the universe as a whole. Obsessing over every little detail of the universe is a complete waste of time and money.

Here you go.

Sri Isopanishad: Invocation: The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

 

[tttppp]

Here you go.

Sri Isopanishad: Invocation: The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

That doesn't explain anything.

 

[PierzStyx]

You tell me. Why is it when someone survives a car wreck, it's God's divinity that saved him, yet when a child is raped and murdered it's God working in mysterious ways?

Because that is people lacking revelation from God grasping at straws. They know not the mind of God so they guess. The fact is, is that Jesus Christ has the power to heal all wounds, even the most horrible wounds you can think up, and not just reverse death but end it. Death has no meaning in the eternal things, all wounds are healed, and the knowledge of good and evil one gained her from either being the victim or the victimizer (and aren't we all both?) can still be retained. Death itself is ended in the Resurrection when every person is raised from death into immortality. Any injustice you can dream up, the Atonement of Jesus Christ ends.

 

[PierzStyx]

"Heaven" is a pipe dream. In all of human history, there has not been one shred of evidence to support its existence. You better enjoy your life while you have it because expecting a fake afterlife is a waste of time.

Not at all. There have been thousands if not millions of accounts of people returning from the dead, or even being shown Heaven itself. Here is one such in depth vision given to the Prophet Joseph Smith: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76?lang=eng

The real fact is, is that there are plenty of proofs from across the spectrum of human existence that point to a life after death. You simply refuse to believe them or even study them. It would be comparable to me reading the article about the Higgs Boson and then saying, "Nope. Still don't believe it. And this 'proof' means nothing because as all intelligent people know, the Higgs Boson just doesn't exist." You start with a conclusion and then only accept what you want to be true and discount everything else you don't want to hear. In that way you're just as bad as those you denounce.

I know Heaven is real. I have at least 7,000 years of ancient and modern witnesses, witnesses counting into the millions, that Heaven is real. I have had a personal experience with God, and know how you can experiment upon what I have said and come to know of His reality as well if you truly wish to know.

 

[nayjevin]

Because that kind of god does not exist. Seems to me, the god that many believe in shouldn't have to attempt to make people's lives better, it should just do it. What kind of a god allows a holocaust to happen, or rape and murder to happen? What the hell happened to divine intervention? Seems this god took a major shit on mankind.

What is your denomination if I may ask.

 

[PierzStyx]

THERE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE OF IT!

Has the concept of God and the supernatural TOTALLY gone over your head?

But there is proof. You're Muslim, if I remember correctly, or am I wrong? If you are then consider Mohammed's ascension into Heaven from Jerusalem, and his revelatory writings where Allah reveals Paradise in examples as the story of Adam and Eve and the Fall of Man. All of these are proofs of Heaven. Mohammed saw Heaven, even went there in vision.

 

[PierzStyx]

1. Because that kind of god does not exist. Seems to me, the god that many believe in shouldn't have to attempt to make people's lives better, it should just do it. What kind of a god allows a holocaust to happen, or rape and murder to happen? What the hell happened to divine intervention? Seems this god took a major shit on mankind.
2.But you're making assumptions. You have no idea what the authors of ancient scriptures had intended. Many others have interpreted and taught the Bible in many ways over the years.
3.Being a biological animal doesn't mean we can't be civilized and have a system of law. We're more advanced than other animals, but we're still animals. That's not up for debate. It's fact.

1. Do you believe in free will? I do. In fact I believe God holds the free will of man of such respect that He will not force man to obey His will. Rather God calls man to Him, entices us to choose Him, pleads for us to obey Him, but ultimately leaves the issue of obedience to our choice. Part of the main purpose of life is to experience the challenges of Earth life, to experience good form evil, and to learn to choose good from evil, to choose Him, Our Father, and to turn away form sin. But in order to have that legitimate choice, to use our free will for good, we have to have the power to use it for evil, because if you only have one choice, OBEY!, then you really have no choice at all. God is not responsible for evil, nor for do man's evil actions mean God does not love us. The only thing man's evil shows is that we are not using our agency of choice well. But you also seem to focus only on the great evils of mankind, and ignore the overwhelming incredible good. People volunteer to help one another, serve each other, feed the homeless, care for the sick, administer to the needy, and so much more everyday in front of you. Do not be blind to the incredible good God inspires in mankind as well.

You talk about the absence of a loving God. Perhaps you do not understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Alma teaches us that Christ would, "go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will ctake upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people. And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities." (Alma 7:11-12, Book of Mormon) What this means is that Jesus Christ, in addition to suffering for our individual sins also suffered for every individual sickness, weakness, and pain we would ever have, as individuals. That means when someone is raped, Christ suffered their exact pain. When someone has AIDS, He knows their exact pain, not just the generic pain of having AIDS. From the stubbing of your toe to the Holocaust and evil things you cannot even think of, he knows them for each sufferer as if He were them. He took upon Himself our pains so that He would know how to succor us perfectly, so that He could administer to those pains and through His infinite power heal those wounds completely and utterly, without even the "emotional scar". Just as Christ is the Healer of Bodies He is also the Healer of The Soul.

2. Actually I am not making assumptions. Peter gives us a clear way to understand the scriptures. He says, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:20-21) So the scriptures are of no private authoritative interpretation (meaning that while can certainly find personal applicability in a scripture, your private understanding is not automatically the definitive meaning of that scripture). This is because the scripture, and prophecy, did not come by the private will of any man, but was revealed to them by the power of The Holy Ghost. If you want to understand a scripture, you must have the Holy Ghost and if you want a true authoritative meaning of a scripture it can only come by one of those who has the will of God revealed to them by the Holy Ghost. These men are called prophets. It is my testimony to you that God speaks today, calls prophets just as He did in old, and gives us guidance for modern life. The Prophet Joseph Smith was called by God and Jesus Christ personally in 1820, and since him there and been 16 modern Prophets and successive modern Apostles with the power and authority to speak for in teh name of God, receiving direct revelation from on High.

3. A fact? Really? I disagree. I am a biological organism, surely. But only in the most generic sense am I an "animal". Humanity is much more than "just an animal", for good or bad. A better truth is that I am a mortal spiritual son of God, fleshy and imperfect. I share many common traits with all other fleshy mortal creations, but by spirit comes from God and I am destined for much more than the "animals."

 

[Kluge]

Something that explains the universe as a whole. Obsessing over every little detail of the universe is a complete waste of time and money.

You have zero understanding of science and scientists.