Tired of RP Supporters' Economic BS

That is why I feel we need to take the profit out of sickness....and give it those whose product is wellness......

What are you suggesting here? Are you suggesting even more government regulation to fix the problem that they themselves created with other regulation?

What we need to do is to get government out of the health care business and let the market decide.
 
the only way to fix the healthcare system.....is to take the profit out of being sick......profit in the medical industry can only be given to those who keep people well........

The easiest way to make this happen is regulations within the FDA......

The profits of the health industry should go to those who keep people well.........

Are you aware that health care might not necessarily include the administration of medications? The FDA has nothing to do with surgical procedures that are practiced by the medical industry.

Also, patients who choose to pay for heath care do so for 1 reason: To profit from the treatment.
 
RP supporters who post regularly on different forums, on youtube, and who discuss Ron Paul with others come out as ignorant cultists to many people because of their economic stupidity. So let me set some things straight that I see a lot of Ron Paul fans get wrong.

I understand there are stupid people all over the place, and they probably participate in all kinds of groups, and I'm sure some are RP supporters.

But...

Have you considered that many of the people you're talking about might not be Ron Paul supporters? They might tell you they are, but it doesn't make it true.
 
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we all know your dan berkley.....I only stop in here once and awhile for an I told you so....

like freddie mac...fannie mae......wow $100,000 in shorts to $188,000 in about a 1/3 of a year, nice gains :)

hows that shearson lehman, ubs, and merryl lynch stock treating you rockandrollsouls/danberkeley?

HAHAHAHAHA........

Your entire post is you spewing crap out of your butt. You made about 10 things up in that post. I've never recommended any financials nor have I purchased shares in any.
 
First of all, you clearly do not know what a model is. An economic model tries to quantify certain aspects of human action. It is not much different from a mathematical model.

Secondly, where did I propose anything but the free market?

Thirdly, I took the liberty to highlight your grammatical mistakes. Besides not knowing jack shit about economics, you could really improve your English. Remember, this is coming from someone who's first language is Polish.

Lastly, don't tell me I'm rude. You were the one who called a relatively well-known and respected economist a "clown" and other insults. You should be ashamed of yourself, your own ignorance, and your stupidity.

No, if anything is first, it is most certainly not your ability to define a model, which you chose to do by posting pictures. This comes back to the first critique, which you did not respond adequately too.

My grammatical mistakes become more prevalent the more I lose my cool, which, noting the freshly planted infraction I obtained, most certainly happened here. I do not take the time to put what I type through some sort of dictionary filter, although if you are a Firefox user, I imagine my mistakes become easier to notice.

I also would like to point out that I insulted an economist, not you at first, you provided the first personal attack, and I responded in kind.

If I were ignorant of the subject, I would be ashamed, but I am not, and your circular reasoning, your flawed expanses of copy and paste nonsense isn't getting anywhere, and having fully read most of the garbage you have toyed with here, I do feel as if my intelligence has taken a hit, and your contorted version of reality is quite frustrating.

So... with that said, your sly weaseling out of context and into a proper straw-man you have somehow set up a nice defended position around free market absolutism, of course by stretching the limitations on the definitions of "controlled" and "model".

I too could do what you are doing, with a proud label of "liberty" cloaking my actions against stagnant and destructive economic theory, I can cut and paste and ultimately paraphrase from the numerous wordy and biting essays of the Cato Institute, or the Mises Institute, and I could comeback to everyone's critique with the phrase "well that isn't a free market", or a "that isn't the proper definition"... all of this is wordplay and newspeak and propaganda of the ultimate lie wrapped around the protective warm uterus of our newest masters on this planet, the corporations. You are no champion of liberty, you are no champion of the free market, democracy, or for that matter, reason; [removed]

So, what should we talk about first? Let's start with this...

1. What is your definition of "Monopoly" and does it differ from what is accepted in economic circles?
 
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No, if anything is first, it is most certainly not your ability to define a model, which you chose to do by posting pictures. This comes back to the first critique, which you did not respond adequately too.

He didn't just post pictures, he also defined the term.

Some days I don't know what your problem is. This guy is not your enemy.
 
He didn't just post pictures, he also defined the term.

Some days I don't know what your problem is. This guy is not your enemy.

I've consistently defined my problem with this guy.

Here is a definition of Economic Model we can all work with, one that he seems to agree with me on, (yet attacks me for anyway):

Economic Model

An economic model attempts to abstract from complex human behavior in a way that sheds some insight into a particular aspect of that behavior. This process inherently ignores important aspects of real-world behavior, making the modeling process an art as well as a mathematical exercise.


There are several ways of looking at these models, besides just using mathematical techniques...

In the broadest sense, a free market is a simplistic model for developing economic policies. I have offered two competing models in this regard, for which I asked why those models could not also be allowed to "compete" in the battlefield of economic theory. He responded like an oiled three-legged badger engulfed in flames.
 
No, if anything is first, it is most certainly not your ability to define a model, which you chose to do by posting pictures. This comes back to the first critique, which you did not respond adequately too.

I defined a model and my first critique completely destroyed your points. You, however, chose not to respond at all and instead asked about economic models. You clearly didn't even know what an economic model is as there is no such thing as a "free market model" or a "socialist model" or a "Keynesian model."

Many neoclassical economists are capitalist, yet some like Oskar Lange are socialists even though they use the same models.

Some Keynesians are more capitalistic than others. Two examples would be Greg Mankiw and Paul Krugman, even though they use the same models.

Economics and political economy are two different things. Economics as such is only the study of how individuals interact whereas political economy is trying to apply recommendations to the real world. This is why you have such a huge disparity among economists within the exact same school of thought (i.e. Lange vs. Becker).

I also would like to point out that I insulted an economist, not you at first, you provided the first personal attack, and I responded in kind.

Yes, but that's the entire point. A little prick like you insults somebody who is respected in their field and has studied economics for longer than you've been alive. He was wrong about one thing, oil prices, which many other economists and financial experts were also wrong about, yet you use it to call him a clown and then somehow use that to discredit his empirical studies of monopolies?

Not only is that insulting to anyone with a sense of honor, it's illogical and unreasonable.

If I were ignorant of the subject, I would be ashamed, but I am not, and your circular reasoning, your flawed expanses of copy and paste nonsense isn't getting anywhere, and having fully read most of the garbage you have toyed with here, I do feel as if my intelligence has taken a hit, and your contorted version of reality is quite frustrating.

Do you really need to be wasting everyone's time with useless ad hominem attacks?

So... with that said, your sly weaseling out of context and into a proper straw-man you have somehow set up a nice defended position around free market absolutism, of course by stretching the limitations on the definitions of "controlled" and "model".

Nope.

I too could do what you are doing, with a proud label of "liberty" cloaking my actions against stagnant and destructive economic theory, I can cut and paste and ultimately paraphrase from the numerous wordy and biting essays of the Cato Institute, or the Mises Institute, and I could comeback to everyone's critique with the phrase "well that isn't a free market", or a "that isn't the proper definition"... all of this is wordplay and newspeak and propaganda of the ultimate lie wrapped around the protective warm uterus of our newest masters on this planet, the corporations. You are no champion of liberty, you are no champion of the free market, democracy, or for that matter, reason; and with Bronisław Geremek having died over the weekend, it looks as if Poland is without a foundation of common sense and rational discourse, if you are a prime example of what they are stacking this day and age.

You truly are an idiot of the highest order. Where have I copied and pasted things from Cato or LvMI? Examples/proof please.

Where have I used newspeak? I only pointed out the things I did about economic models to show your blatant stupidity and ignorance. The discussion of "what economic model you support" is completely irrelevant in the context you used it: there is no such thing as a "free market model."

Where have I said that I am the noblest fighter for liberty? I haven't even used the word "liberty" once in this thread.

Lastly, are you really being ethnocentrist, racist, and xenophobic? Wow. Just wow. Is that what you have to resort to in the face of reason? You don't know what you're talking about, so you have to throw around insults, not only at individuals, but at entire nations?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

1. What is your definition of "Monopoly" and does it differ from what is accepted in economic circles?

I already answered that. Why don't you read my posts before you reply? That sounds like a really good idea.

I've consistently defined my problem with this guy.

Here is a definition of Economic Model we can all work with, one that he seems to agree with me on, (yet attacks me for anyway):

Economic Model

An economic model attempts to abstract from complex human behavior in a way that sheds some insight into a particular aspect of that behavior. This process inherently ignores important aspects of real-world behavior, making the modeling process an art as well as a mathematical exercise.


There are several ways of looking at these models, besides just using mathematical techniques...

In the broadest sense, a free market is a simplistic model for developing economic policies. I have offered two competing models in this regard, for which I asked why those models could not also be allowed to "compete" in the battlefield of economic theory. He responded like an oiled three-legged badger engulfed in flames.

No, you copy and paste a definition for what an economic model is, yet you still don't have a clue what you're talking about? That's really sad.

Again, there is no such thing as a "free market model" or a "mixed economy model" or a "socialist model." An economic model is precisely a way to represent human action in a simple mathematical way that is easy to understand.

That's why you have the supply and demand curve and the PPF curve. It's easier to explain various actions economic agents carry out that way and their effect on the economy.

And I have yet to see you respond to one point I made in response to your OP in this thread. You're just running around in circles looking for excuses to slither out of a face-to-face debate.
 
I defined a model and my first critique completely destroyed your points.

Some Keynesians are more capitalistic than others. Two examples would be Greg Mankiw and Paul Krugman, even though they use the same models.

Economics and political economy are two different things. Economics as such is only the study of how individuals interact whereas political economy is trying to apply recommendations to the real world. This is why you have such a huge disparity among economists within the exact same school of thought (i.e. Lange vs. Becker).


A little prick like you insults somebody who is respected in their field and has studied economics for longer than you've been alive. He was wrong about one thing, oil prices, which many other economists and financial experts were also wrong about, yet you use it to call him a clown and then somehow use that to discredit his empirical studies of monopolies?




Do you really need to be wasting everyone's time with useless ad hominem attacks?





You truly are an idiot of the highest order.
Where have I used newspeak? I only pointed out the things I did about economic models to show your blatant stupidity and ignorance. The discussion of "what economic model you support" is completely irrelevant in the context you used it: there is no such thing as a "free market model."

Where have I said that I am the noblest fighter for liberty? I haven't even used the word "liberty" once in this thread.

Lastly, are you really being ethnocentrist, racist, and xenophobic? Wow. Just wow. Is that what you have to resort to in the face of reason? You don't know what you're talking about, so you have to throw around insults, not only at individuals, but at entire nations?


No, you copy and paste a definition for what an economic model is, yet you still don't have a clue what you're talking about? That's really sad.

Again, there is no such thing as a "free market model" or a "mixed economy model" or a "socialist model." An economic model is precisely a way to represent human action in a simple mathematical way that is easy to understand.

That's why you have the supply and demand curve and the PPF curve. It's easier to explain various actions economic agents carry out that way and their effect on the economy.

And I have yet to see you respond to one point I made in response to your OP in this thread. You're just running around in circles looking for excuses to slither out of a face-to-face debate.

Sigh.
 
I defined a model and my first critique completely destroyed your points.

Some Keynesians are more capitalistic than others. Two examples would be Greg Mankiw and Paul Krugman, even though they use the same models.

Economics and political economy are two different things. Economics as such is only the study of how individuals interact whereas political economy is trying to apply recommendations to the real world. This is why you have such a huge disparity among economists within the exact same school of thought (i.e. Lange vs. Becker).


A little prick like you insults somebody who is respected in their field and has studied economics for longer than you've been alive. He was wrong about one thing, oil prices, which many other economists and financial experts were also wrong about, yet you use it to call him a clown and then somehow use that to discredit his empirical studies of monopolies?




Do you really need to be wasting everyone's time with useless ad hominem attacks?





You truly are an idiot of the highest order.
Where have I used newspeak? I only pointed out the things I did about economic models to show your blatant stupidity and ignorance. The discussion of "what economic model you support" is completely irrelevant in the context you used it: there is no such thing as a "free market model."

Where have I said that I am the noblest fighter for liberty? I haven't even used the word "liberty" once in this thread.

Lastly, are you really being ethnocentrist, racist, and xenophobic? Wow. Just wow. Is that what you have to resort to in the face of reason? You don't know what you're talking about, so you have to throw around insults, not only at individuals, but at entire nations?


No, you copy and paste a definition for what an economic model is, yet you still don't have a clue what you're talking about? That's really sad.

Again, there is no such thing as a "free market model" or a "mixed economy model" or a "socialist model." An economic model is precisely a way to represent human action in a simple mathematical way that is easy to understand.

That's why you have the supply and demand curve and the PPF curve. It's easier to explain various actions economic agents carry out that way and their effect on the economy.

And I have yet to see you respond to one point I made in response to your OP in this thread. You're just running around in circles looking for excuses to slither out of a face-to-face debate.

Still not answering. I also never said "socialist model" are you ^%&^%* dense?

You made one good point in there, and the rest was more trash. I am trying to get away from the insults... you are not.

Anyway I'll debate.

Define monopoly.
 
Still not answering. I also never said "socialist model" are you ^%&^%* dense?

You made one good point in there, and the rest was more trash. I am trying to get away from the insults... you are not.

Anyway I'll debate.

Define monopoly.

I already have defined monopoly. Please go back and reread my earlier posts where I have done so.

You calling me dense is beyond comprehension. You said "free market model," so by your definition there should be a "mixed economy model" and a "socialist model" as well. Yet, there is no such thing as a "free market," "mixed economy," or "socialist model." There are various mathematical models used to represent basic functions of the economy, yet different economists draw different conclusions form them in regards to political economy (e.g. Becker and Lange, Smith and Marx, Mankiw and Krugman).

You don't even know what you're talking about and you haven't even responded to one of my refutations of your contentions, yet saying I'm talking trash? You're the one who hasn't responded to any of my points in a respective manner, you're the one who has gone around insulting relatively well known and respected economists, and you're the one acting like a little prick.

Just grow up. Let's pretend this never happened and then maybe you should actually respond to my refutation of your ideas.
 
I already have defined monopoly. Please go back and reread my earlier posts where I have done so.

You calling me dense is beyond comprehension. You said "free market model," so by your definition there should be a "mixed economy model" and a "socialist model" as well. Yet, there is no such thing as a "free market," "mixed economy," or "socialist model." There are various mathematical models used to represent basic functions of the economy, yet different economists draw different conclusions form them in regards to political economy (e.g. Becker and Lange, Smith and Marx, Mankiw and Krugman).

You don't even know what you're talking about and you haven't even responded to one of my refutations of your contentions, yet saying I'm talking trash? You're the one who hasn't responded to any of my points in a respective manner, you're the one who has gone around insulting relatively well known and respected economists, and you're the one acting like a little prick.

Just grow up. Let's pretend this never happened and then maybe you should actually respond to my refutation of your ideas.

Monopoly.
 
I already have defined monopoly. Please go back and reread my earlier posts where I have done so.

3. Monopolies

Monopolies are not a problem in a free market. I often see many RP supporters not knowing what to say about monopolies.

Dominick T. Armentano is a leading economist in the study of markets and monopolies. I suggest you look at this and this.

The fact of the matter is that a true monopoly cannot exist in a free market. The larger businesses become the harder economic calculation gets, so 100% market share becomes impossible in a developed economy. However, companies like Microsoft that are labeled monopolies due to their rather large market share, are actually beneficial for people. Microsoft, for example, provided cheaper goods to more people and thus gained greater market share. Pepsi and Coca Cola could be considered an oligopoly, though both of them provide superior products to their competitors. Another example is Alcoa, which greatly cheapened aluminum and thus gained huge market share.

In each of these examples, these "monopolies" were actually beneficial to the people and the market. Also, in each of these examples, there were always competitors who were able to stop any price gouging by competing away market share.


That really isn't a definition. All you said was that a monopoly is not possible in a free market.

Define Monopoly.
 
I have already defined monopoly in response to your OP in this thread. How many times do I have to tell you this?
 
I have already defined monopoly in response to your OP in this thread. How many times do I have to tell you this?

Okay. I admit that I cannot find it. Can you please show me where you defined Monopoly in this thread?
 
Post #84 of this thread. It wasn't in response to you though, which probably contributed to the confusion.

you also said enough in post #15 to where any person wanting to reasonably understand the position you are coming from would:

De Beers never was a monopoly. They have never had greater market share than 80%.
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Just that it is economically impossible for a single company to completely corner a market without government help, due to the problems of economic calculation on a massive scale.

The fact of the matter is that there never has been a true free market monopoly
 
you also said enough in post #15 to where any person wanting to reasonably understand the position you are coming from would:

No, this is what I was looking for:

Monopoly is 100% market share. Free market is a market without any regulations beyond basic protection or natural rights.
 
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