Time For Libertarians To Leave The GOP?

[Ender]

Obviously SS is no libertarian. His theme in practically every post is to promote statism. So I don't see a need to argue over something he is so overt about.

But there's nothing the slightest bit anti-libertarian about this doctrine, as you indicated when you brought it up in post 73. Almost everything else he says here is statist, but here you picked the one exceptional thing that isn't.

TRUTH.

SS is no libertarian- that said- I'll support anything that Jesus wants when He returns- ain't got nothin' to do with man's weakness in governing.

 

[devil21]

TRUTH.

SS is no libertarian- that said- I'll support anything that Jesus wants when He returns- ain't got nothin' to do with man's weakness in governing.

Well, you better hope that Jesus is the turn-the-other-cheek-love-thy-neighbor Jesus instead of the I-come-with-a-sword-and-will-tear-families-apart Jesus.

Obviously SS is no libertarian. His theme in practically every post is to promote statism. So I don't see a need to argue over something he is so overt about.

But there's nothing the slightest bit anti-libertarian about this doctrine, as you indicated when you brought it up in post 73. Almost everything else he says here is statist, but here you picked the one exceptional thing that isn't.

Global rule by unelected people based on a book hand-picked by a group of Catholics at the behest of a Pope and then revised by an English King is libertarian?

Man, I really love some of y'all but I really get lost at the religion part of all this.

 

[Origanalist]

That would never happen. libertarians these days will sooner reach out all the way to the far left because they find something like pot in common and think they're gonna build some super coalition around it (nevermind the left will ban 99% of other things, which always struck me as downright weird, "Oh you gotta be 21 to smoke cigarettes but you like pot? Oh cool, let the kids have some!"), but they won't work with people who agree with them on maybe half the issues. I don't care if I'm flamed for this but, it's hard to tell libertarians these days from leftist SJW college freaks when it comes to being part of the 'cool kids club.' Step outta line and down comes the hammer. To be able to see that, you have to step back and have some degree of objectivity, which *most* libertarians absolutely do not possess.

All you do is bitch about libertarians. You constantly complain about "purity tests" and "getting flamed" and then rail on "libertarians". Why have you been here all these years if you dislike libertarians so much?

 

[Origanalist]

I will report violations of the forum rules to the forum staff when they are egregious enough.

You should remember that.

See something, say something.

 

[Ender]

Well, you better hope that Jesus is the turn-the-other-cheek-love-thy-neighbor Jesus instead of the I-come-with-a-sword-and-will-tear-families-apart Jesus.



Global rule by unelected people based on a book hand-picked by a group of Catholics at the behest of a Pope and then revised by an English King is libertarian?

Man, I really love some of y'all but I really get lost at the religion part of all this.

I believe in an all loving Jesus that will bring peace. And I don't base my POV on any book- just my own spiritual experiences.

And I love ya back- think you're awesome.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Global rule by unelected people based on a book hand-picked by a group of Catholics at the behest of a Pope and then revised by an English King is libertarian?

What book are you talking about?

But yes, the basis of true libertarianism is the rule of God alone. Another way this truth is expressed is by the phrase "rule of law." Libertarianism is the rule of justice itself, absent any make-believe laws constructed by mere men.

 

[Ender]

What book are you talking about?

But yes, the basis of true libertarianism is the rule of God alone. Another way this truth is expressed is by the phrase "rule of law." Libertarianism is the rule of justice itself, absent any make-believe laws constructed by mere men.

He's talking about the Bible.

Nicene creed-
Some writings thrown out or discarded-
Incorrect translations-
King James Bible written with inserts to please him. (For instance "witch" was never in the Bible. "Suffer a witch not to live" was originally "Suffer a murderer"; King James didn't like witches so the verse was changed to please him.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Well, you better hope that Jesus is the turn-the-other-cheek-love-thy-neighbor Jesus instead of the I-come-with-a-sword-and-will-tear-families-apart Jesus.

He is and will be both, the wicked shall reap as they have sown and the meek shall inherit the earth.

Global rule by unelected people based on a book hand-picked by a group of Catholics at the behest of a Pope and then revised by an English King is libertarian?

Man, I really love some of y'all but I really get lost at the religion part of all this.

That's not what I believe in and if the book is completely false as you imply then you have nothing to fear because Christ will not return and bring us his kingdom.

I'm glad you are showing your Christophobia for all to see though.

 

[Swordsmyth]

He's talking about the Bible.

Nicene creed-
Some writings thrown out or discarded-
Incorrect translations-
King James Bible written with inserts to please him. (For instance "witch" was never in the Bible. "Suffer a witch not to live" was originally "Suffer a murderer"; King James didn't like witches so the verse was changed to please him.

Then why did Saul drive all the witches out of the land?
Why are there umpteen other condemnations of witches and sorcerers throughout the bible?

 

[devil21]

He is and will be both, the wicked shall reap as they have sown and the meek shall inherit the earth.

You better hope you're on the right side of that equation. I'm not so sure you are...

I'm glad you are showing your Christophobia for all to see though.

Your post is funny because the divisive hate mongering spews from your handle, not mine.

And just for giggles, I'm going to bet that I even look a lot more like him than you do

 

[Swordsmyth]

You better hope you're on the right side of that equation. I'm not so sure you are...



Your post is funny because the divisive hate mongering spews from your handle, not mine.

You continue to lie about my position and about all Christians who believe in the coming Kingdom of GOD to try and make us sound like dangerous tyrants.
That's Christophobia writ large.

 

[ATruepatriot]

He's talking about the Bible.

Nicene creed-
Some writings thrown out or discarded-
Incorrect translations-
King James Bible written with inserts to please him. (For instance "witch" was never in the Bible. "Suffer a witch not to live" was originally "Suffer a murderer"; King James didn't like witches so the verse was changed to please him.

Need to read the Septuagint before even going any deeper into later versions. The Geneva Bible is THE version to stand by if you are a believer.

 

[devil21]

He's talking about the Bible.

Nicene creed-
Some writings thrown out or discarded-
Incorrect translations-
King James Bible written with inserts to please him. (For instance "witch" was never in the Bible. "Suffer a witch not to live" was originally "Suffer a murderer"; King James didn't like witches so the verse was changed to please him.

That's why you rock Ender! I'm not saying that all spirituality is nonsense or anything near it. It's the seeking of guidance from external sources that is folly. At the end of the day, when the Son...errr...Sun...Sets (who saw what I did there?) most religious people are guided by external sources, to their own demise and for the benefit of flawed people.

So, if I were Jesus and I'm separating the wheat from the tares on this thread, well, it's not hard to figure out who goes where.

 

[nobody's_hero]

All you do is bitch about libertarians. You constantly complain about "purity tests" and "getting flamed" and then rail on "libertarians". Why have you been here all these years if you dislike libertarians so much?

I don't dislike libertarians. I dislike their methods. The very premise of the thread is to give bad advice on what libertarians should do to become even more politically impotent than they already are. What exactly is that going to solve?

If you put two libertarians in a room together, I swear to God they will fight to the death to determine who is more libertarian. That's just an observation after visiting these forums for the past 11 years. We've reached a point where you can't even take delight in small victories because someone comes along to berate you for not demanding an all-or-nothing deal, with much finger-wagging.

I'm gonna drop this post, again, because some folks still don't get it:

We are running out of time

The highlight:

"We don't have another 47 years to waste sparring each other as the Libertarian Party has done. We may not even have another 12 years to waste, as we here on this site have done, before it's too late. It may already be too late; many of us here argued the same a decade ago. What I think many people fail to understand is that it's not just going to be too late for the US government to turn around. It's going to be too late for American culture to survive, and if American culture dies, so does every link the average person has had or will ever have, to libertarianism or even liberty in general. If you think the gulf between you and the average American is too wide to bridge today, you have no idea how bad it could get." -- MiniMe

 

[Superfluous Man]

He's talking about the Bible.

Nicene creed-
Some writings thrown out or discarded-
Incorrect translations-
King James Bible written with inserts to please him. (For instance "witch" was never in the Bible. "Suffer a witch not to live" was originally "Suffer a murderer"; King James didn't like witches so the verse was changed to please him.

Any book can be incorrectly translated. But with the texts in the original languages still there for anyone to study, I don't see why that's a big deal. It certainly doesn't put the Bible into any special category of being inaccessible or corrupted relative to any other books.

Most of the rest of what you say looks like baseless conspiracy theory. The Nicene Creed had nothing to do with the making of the Bible. I'm not sure what you mean about writings being thrown out or discarded, but we still have all the scriptures that Jesus and the apostles read as scripture in what is today known as the Old Testament, and the ones they passed on to the Church for her permanent use in what is today known as the New Testament, in forms that are in all important respects no different than the forms they took in the first century. If some people choose to discard any or all of those books from their own use, that reflects on them, but not the scriptures.

The Hebrew word used in Exodus 22:17 (verse 18 in English versions) is mecashephah, meaning "one who practices sorcery," from the verb cashaph, which means to practice sorcery. Three centuries before Christ, and 19 centuries before King James, it had already been translated into Greek with the word pharmakos, which also meant one who practices sorcery. It was also translated as "witch" in the English translations that preceded the KJV.

 

[Superfluous Man]

That's why you rock Ender! I'm not saying that all spirituality is nonsense or anything near it. It's the seeking of guidance from external sources that is folly. At the end of the day, when the Son...errr...Sun...Sets (who saw what I did there?) most religious people are guided by external sources, to their own demise and for the benefit of flawed people.

So, if I were Jesus and I'm separating the wheat from the tares on this thread, well, it's not hard to figure out who goes where.

The alternative to seeking guidance from an external source is just making stuff up.

But God has revealed himself to the world in his Son, Jesus Christ. Folly is disregarding the truth that he has shown us by him.

 

[jmdrake]

Well, you better hope that Jesus is the turn-the-other-cheek-love-thy-neighbor Jesus instead of the I-come-with-a-sword-and-will-tear-families-apart Jesus.

Wow. A thread about libertarians vs the GOP turning into a religious war. Talk about thread creep!

Anyway, this is the "sword" that Jesus brought.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


And yes, the Word of God can tear families apart. Consider the case of a Muslim who converts to Christianity and gets disowned (or worse) by his family. That is the "sword" of the word tearing a family apart.

Global rule by unelected people based on a book hand-picked by a group of Catholics at the behest of a Pope and then revised by an English King is libertarian?

Ummmm....no. The second coming of Jesus if it is true, and I believe it is, isn't "based on a book." The book is simply revealing what will eventually happen. As long as the only thing Christians do to advance the second coming of Jesus is tell other people "Hey, He's coming back. Be ready!" that is 100% libertarian. It's only when Christians try to establish God's kingdom by force that there's a problem. That is why Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. John 18:36" Why do you think Christians in the Middle East have been able to live for centuries under the rule of some of the worst despots imaginable? Because they don't go around trying to establish God's kingdom by force. They mind their business, go to church each week, and are in general good citizens. Persecution of Christians ramped up recently due to U.S. interventionism destabilizing the region.

Man, I really love some of y'all but I really get lost at the religion part of all this.

We know. But the Son Of Man came to seek and save the lost.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Wow. A thread about libertarians vs the GOP turning into a religious war. Talk about thread creep!

Anyway, this is the "sword" that Jesus brought.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


And yes, the Word of God can tear families apart. Consider the case of a Muslim who converts to Christianity and gets disowned (or worse) by his family. That is the "sword" of the word tearing a family apart.



Ummmm....no. The second coming of Jesus if it is true, and I believe it is, isn't "based on a book." The book is simply revealing what will eventually happen. As long as the only thing Christians do to advance the second coming of Jesus is tell other people "Hey, He's coming back. Be ready!" that is 100% libertarian. It's only when Christians try to establish God's kingdom by force that there's a problem. That is why Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. John 18:36" Why do you think Christians in the Middle East have been able to live for centuries under the rule of some of the worst despots imaginable? Because they don't go around trying to establish God's kingdom by force. They mind their business, go to church each week, and are in general good citizens. Persecution of Christians ramped up recently due to U.S. interventionism destabilizing the region.



We know. But the Son Of Man came to seek and save the lost.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again."

 

[Cleaner44]

Libertarians have been uncomfortably participating in GOP primaries because that party, despite being nearly identical to the other as a matter of policy, at least payed lip service to small government, which gave those of us trying to actually pursue smaller government some degree of cover. I always argued in favor of this strategy, but I'm not sure the rationale still applies, with the modern GOP increasingly not even paying lip service to small government. Amash is on the verge of losing his next reelection because the Trumpenproles tolerate nothing but mindless obedience to Dear Leader. Sanford already lost an election for the same reason. Rand's been lobotomized. Should we go back to the LP and try to turn it into something functional? Create a new party? Sure, we wouldn't win any elections anytime soon, but we're not winning any now. Better to be in principled opposition, a seed for future growth, than to be slowly assimilated into the TrumpBorg. If Amash decides to run on the LP ticket in 2020, which is looking increasingly likely, that may be as good a signal as any that it's time to GTFO and go find some greener pastures.

Have you re-registered as a Libertarian yet? Are you going to wait for Amash to resign from Congress first?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Which is funny since Swordsmyth admitted in the Libertarian abortion thread, now banished to Hot Topics, that he wants a theocratic world government run by Mormons. Yep, sounds like libertarian rhetoric to me.

I guarantee you that Mormons are diverse, and that in general, are patriotic, which some would call nationalist.

But you are correct in assuming that there are many whose opinion on nations and immigration is based upon their religious beliefs. “Catholic” Charities for instance, yet I don’t know a single Catholic that goes along with “no borders” or socialism. There is a lot of discontent with the current Pope.