Time For A New Third Party?

[fedupinmo]

You know, the Constitution Party is the closest one to legitimate governance under the current Constitution. One could only believe that they would be better stewards of it than the rest.

 

[Anti Federalist]

We have so much talent.

..and it's just being wasted.

Uh huh.

And what part of "Idiot AmeriKa" do you not understand?

They don't want what we're selling.

There is a reason that symphony orchestras go bankrupt as well.

Idiot AmeriKa wants free government goodies, passed out by scantily clad cheerleaders singing Lady Gaga songs.

 

[Brett85]

I support a party and/or political philosophy which advocates a government which exists for the primary purpose of defending life, liberty, and property. It's not about "avoiding culture wars" but about advocating policies which advance the cause of life, liberty, and property. We need to elect leaders at all levels of government who understand the proper role of government and will vote to uphold our basic rights to life, liberty, and property.

 

[Raginfridus]

We need to put crypto-libertarians in the parties, forget about third party. The two can only be removed from power if they die first. Stuff the monster parties we've got with libertarian talent who can talk the talk and give the impression they're hardcore libs and cons to all the half-wits, while appearing to reach compromise across party lines, with fellow libertarians, for the good of the Party. Play on every district like a fiddle, appeal to the masses, amass a libertarian "America First Committee" network unofficially, follow publicly with all that partisan shit voters go for -- then stick it to the Republicrats for good. Reveal ourselves to the Jedi kind of thing.

The means justify the ends; I don't see the liberty cause winning if we don't oust the monolithic party we've got from within. Republicrats are too religiously significant to Murka: as American as apple pie and fake tits. Murka's gotta think its still voting for/against the Dem/Rep parties, until they can identify and accept libertarianism w/o training whee;s.

 

[nobody's_hero]

We need to put crypto-libertarians in the parties, forget about third party. The two can only be removed from power if they die first. Stuff the monster parties we've got with libertarian talent who can talk the talk and give the impression they're hardcore libs and cons to all the half-wits, while appearing to reach compromise across party lines, with fellow libertarians, for the good of the Party. Play on every district like a fiddle, appeal to the masses, amass a libertarian "America First Committee" network unofficially, follow publicly with all that partisan $#@! voters go for -- then stick it to the Republicrats for good. Reveal ourselves to the Jedi kind of thing.

The means justify the ends; I don't see the liberty cause winning if we don't oust the monolithic party we've got from within. Republicrats are too religiously significant to Murka: as American as apple pie and fake tits. Murka's gotta think its still voting for/against the Dem/Rep parties, until they can identify and accept libertarianism w/o training whee;s.

I'm not above the Trojan horse strategy. I've joked before that we should take a candidate and make him out to be the most blood-thirsty foreign interventionist and drug-warrior in the Republican race. Because, once you win, your party is going to defend everything you do, and the other party is going to attack you no matter what you do. We are too polarized as a nation for that to stop happening. Once safely in office, rip off your shirt and reveal the giant L on your chest, and watch as the people who voted for you defend you even if you call all the troops home, end the Fed, stop funding the war on drugs, etc.

Voters are stupid. I say we stop trying to win them over and instead fool them into freedom.

 

[Swordsmyth]

We need to put crypto-libertarians in the parties, forget about third party. The two can only be removed from power if they die first. Stuff the monster parties we've got with libertarian talent who can talk the talk and give the impression they're hardcore libs and cons to all the half-wits, while appearing to reach compromise across party lines, with fellow libertarians, for the good of the Party. Play on every district like a fiddle, appeal to the masses, amass a libertarian "America First Committee" network unofficially, follow publicly with all that partisan $#@! voters go for -- then stick it to the Republicrats for good. Reveal ourselves to the Jedi kind of thing.

The means justify the ends; I don't see the liberty cause winning if we don't oust the monolithic party we've got from within. Republicrats are too religiously significant to Murka: as American as apple pie and fake tits. Murka's gotta think its still voting for/against the Dem/Rep parties, until they can identify and accept libertarianism w/o training whee;s.

I'm not above the Trojan horse strategy. I've joked before that we should take a candidate and make him out to be the most blood-thirsty foreign interventionist and drug-warrior in the Republican race. Because, once you win, your party is going to defend everything you do, and the other party is going to attack you no matter what you do. We are too polarized as a nation for that to stop happening. Once safely in office, rip off your shirt and reveal the giant L on your chest, and watch as the people who voted for you defend you even if you call all the troops home, end the Fed, stop funding the war on drugs, etc.

Voters are stupid. I say we stop trying to win them over and instead fool them into freedom.

Whatever works is fine with me but we still need to run people who promote our values and educate as many people as we can.

 

[osan]

Is this too much to ask?

Is this a serious question?

When musing over such issues, one must perforce and at all times bear in the center of his consciousness the statistical reality of humanity taken as a whole. It is precisely this reality that has given us the world as we know it. It is the utter corruptibility of the average man that you have to take into account when talking about political parties and so forth.

The reason the "left" has been so completely successful, whereas the "liberty" movement remains a sad little shit-stain of a joke on the seat of the world's underpants is that the former hold every advantage of human weakness working for them, whereas the latter has everything working against them.

What do lefties do? They appeal to emotion, whereas liberty people talk to reason. Lefties promise free shit. The only thing liberty people talk is freeDOM. Now bear in mind that their idea of freedom holds only the most superficial connection to that held by those who run to the left.

Proper human freedom scares the leftist überfag sheetwhite. He wants NOTHING to do with it because it demands things he is not willing to give. Personal responsibility, for one, not to mention integrity, a love of reason, and so on down the standard line.

The Weakman-überfag views freedom as being able to do anything he wants without having to account for his actions. He is überweak and therefore demands everyone around him behave as he wishes, especially that they not offend his delicate sensibilities. Freedom means being able to have sex with whomever, wherever, however they please. These are approaching the characteristics of the average man.

They are weak, fear-riddled in some manner or another, avaricious to a fault, lazy, and proudly ignorant. The links-führers exploit all of these iniquities of Weakmen such that the überfag becomes smitten and beholden to his masters. The links-führer understands that they appeal to everything filthy Weakman wants. The result: success.

Liberty-oriented leaders ask the world of prospective members. Integrity, morals, responsibility, honesty, smarts, attitude. Why would young people, for instance, go this route when they can take the left fork where the promises are for free stuff and their naughty bits being serviced by their neighbor's hamsters?

This is what liberty is up against. Proceed as you see fit.

Let me ask this: is there any way liberty-oriented people could take advantage of the same weaknesses, only turning them to liberty's advantage? I do not see it, but it cannot hurt to ask.

 

[osan]

I'm not above the Trojan horse strategy. I've joked before that we should take a candidate and make him out to be the most blood-thirsty foreign interventionist and drug-warrior in the Republican race. Because, once you win, your party is going to defend everything you do, and the other party is going to attack you no matter what you do. We are too polarized as a nation for that to stop happening. Once safely in office, rip off your shirt and reveal the giant L on your chest, and watch as the people who voted for you defend you even if you call all the troops home, end the Fed, stop funding the war on drugs, etc.

Voters are stupid. I say we stop trying to win them over and instead fool them into freedom.

May I take it you have not been paying attention to the little dance Trump has been doing with the GOP?

 

[nikcers]

May I take it you have not been paying attention to the little dance Trump has been doing with the GOP?

You mean the fake news that they put out because his poll numbers drop whenever the MSM reports that he is basically continuing the Bush foreign policy. You want to know what "they" do to opposition? They shoot at you or break your ribs.

 

[nobody's_hero]

May I take it you have not been paying attention to the little dance Trump has been doing with the GOP?

The voters haven't turned against Trump. I'm not talking about the Jeff Flakes and the McCains. They'll never vote for him regardless. But he's got the GOP voter base locked in. And mark my words he could do pretty much anything he wants and they'll continue to support him. Just like the GOP supported Bush until he couldn't run anymore due to term limits. Just like the democrats supported Obama until he wasn't able to run anymore. "he's our guy! defend him!"

Once you're in the white house, you get a certain degree of immunity from internal criticism and an overly-generous benefit-of-the-doubt granted by the average voter. We just gotta figure out how to get our guy in there.

 

[osan]

The voters haven't turned against Trump.

Agreed. I wrote "GOP", meaning the party, in case that was not clear. That is my point. Could all this Trumpery be just more theater? Could be. But what if it is not? Then Trump is what he appears and Theye are certainly doing everything in their power to put the kybosh on him.

At this point things are so jumbled, I have little confidence in any fork I might take regarding my ability in assessing how genuine Trump may be. I would like to think he is what he appears, but history demonstrates just what foolery that can be, especially in the last 75 years or so.

Regarding Trump, I would warn people against being too purist. He is a man and nothing more. He will be imperfect, same as would a Ron Paul presidency have been. If you want perfection, sit idly and wait for Jesus to pop out from behind a cloud. You may be waiting awhile. My point is that we should be glad to see even small movements in a better direction than those in which we have been taken since at least 1900. So what if Trump is more of the same shit in some respects? Would you prefer he were shit like Obama? Bushes? Clintons? Let us meter our expectations per the yardstick of positive reality and not our normative wish lists. Theye have gotten here over the course of at least 150 years of scheming and chipping away at the foundations of what stood to make this a great and unique land. Now we stand at the brink of becoming just another open-air prison. Had the good Dr. Paul ascended the throne in place of the Donald, he would have at best gotten but marginally farther than Trump, most likely not nearly as far. Ron seems a real boyscout and Congress would wish him and his all dead because of it. Trump is a brawler and Theye want even him out. That's the truth of that in which we are ensnared. The best we can hope for is the likewise chipping our way back from the edge of the abyss. I don't like Trump, but neither do I hate him. He is a damned site better than Hillary would have been. By now, you would have been surrendering your small children to the Department of Pedophilia for indoctrination and "breaking in".

But he's got the GOP voter base locked in.

It appears to be the case, and to that I provisionally say "good!" The alternatives were all complete shyte, save Rand, and he'd have been in the same boat as Trump, only worse because I don't think he has the outward menace that the Donald possesses. I believe that menace is one of the few things that will get a body as corrupt as Congress to do even the least right by the people they purport to represent.

And mark my words he could do pretty much anything he wants and they'll continue to support him.

Here I must disagree strongly. While I acknowledge Trump has latitude, it is very limited. His base mostly has a sharply defined notion of what is right and what is not. Were he, for example, to establish Hillary's Department Of Pedophilia, his base would shrink to about a dozen people in about 3 seconds. OTOH, I agree that he has great latitude in terms of prosecuting warfare, which is a damned shame. But to be honest, I'd rather he made war over there than over here because that problem is more easily corrected, IMO.

Just like the GOP supported Bush until he couldn't run anymore due to term limits.

Not following you here. Not clear on who is "GOP". Do you mean the party or the membership? Assuming the former, I see no fall away of support from GOP. They still fondly remember GWB and his father, the neocon contingent with tears of nostalgia.

Just like the democrats supported Obama until he wasn't able to run anymore. "he's our guy! defend him!"

You kidding? They're all still ready to stuff his tiny black missile in whichever orifice they think might please him. Not at all sure what you mean here. The lefties are still ready to have his babies.

Once you're in the white house, you get a certain degree of immunity from internal criticism and an overly-generous benefit-of-the-doubt granted by the average voter. We just gotta figure out how to get our guy in there.

But once again I am not talking about voters, but the party establishments; the corporations bearing the respective names. The GOP wants Trump OUT, if what we see in the news is to be even marginally believed as something better than theater. I don't know whether it is - I am not that smart.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And there you have it.

Nothing much more to be said.

Is this a serious question?

When musing over such issues, one must perforce and at all times bear in the center of his consciousness the statistical reality of humanity taken as a whole. It is precisely this reality that has given us the world as we know it. It is the utter corruptibility of the average man that you have to take into account when talking about political parties and so forth.

The reason the "left" has been so completely successful, whereas the "liberty" movement remains a sad little shit-stain of a joke on the seat of the world's underpants is that the former hold every advantage of human weakness working for them, whereas the latter has everything working against them.

What do lefties do? They appeal to emotion, whereas liberty people talk to reason. Lefties promise free shit. The only thing liberty people talk is freeDOM. Now bear in mind that their idea of freedom holds only the most superficial connection to that held by those who run to the left.

Proper human freedom scares the leftist überfag sheetwhite. He wants NOTHING to do with it because it demands things he is not willing to give. Personal responsibility, for one, not to mention integrity, a love of reason, and so on down the standard line.

The Weakman-überfag views freedom as being able to do anything he wants without having to account for his actions. He is überweak and therefore demands everyone around him behave as he wishes, especially that they not offend his delicate sensibilities. Freedom means being able to have sex with whomever, wherever, however they please. These are approaching the characteristics of the average man.

They are weak, fear-riddled in some manner or another, avaricious to a fault, lazy, and proudly ignorant. The links-führers exploit all of these iniquities of Weakmen such that the überfag becomes smitten and beholden to his masters. The links-führer understands that they appeal to everything filthy Weakman wants. The result: success.

Liberty-oriented leaders ask the world of prospective members. Integrity, morals, responsibility, honesty, smarts, attitude. Why would young people, for instance, go this route when they can take the left fork where the promises are for free stuff and their naughty bits being serviced by their neighbor's hamsters?

This is what liberty is up against. Proceed as you see fit.

Let me ask this: is there any way liberty-oriented people could take advantage of the same weaknesses, only turning them to liberty's advantage? I do not see it, but it cannot hurt to ask.

 

[euphemia]

And then do we run from this party too when people start coming in that don't align 100% with the stated goals? Do we again just throw our hands up in the air and cry 'woe is me, we've been co-opted!'?

Pretty much when some of us were out distributing End the Fed flyers at Tea Party rallies, other people on these forums were whining about "Teocons" when in truth many of these average republican voters were disgusted with the GOP and ready to leave the party. It was a prime audience. The two movements now have more common ground than ever before, the enthusiasm drained from them like a Wall Street crony's corporate account before pulling the ripcord on his golden parachute.

A lot of libertarians on these forums don't seem to grasp the concept that the road to 'no government' and the road to 'smaller government' share the same stretch of asphalt for much of the way, but you won't work with anyone who doesn't land on Chance and proceed to full blown anarcho-capitalistic, collect $200.

This ^^^ right here. If I had rep to give, I'd give it.

 

[angelatc]

Ron Paul said we should take over the GOP

 

[Lamp]

Ron Paul said we should take over the GOP

How well did that turn out?

Secession ftw.

 

[osan]

How well did that turn out?

Secession ftw.

But to what resolution? Anything short of the individual is, IMO, a half-measure doomed to fail.

 

[angelatc]

How well did that turn out?

.

Libertarians sobbed that the GOP was mean and then went home, so not well. Sorry Ron - we failed you.

 

[oyarde]

I'm tired of being one of the lone nuts on the fringe screaming warnings and dire predictions and grim forecasts.

I wanna jump on the team and come on in for the big win, just once in my life.

I love it . Jump on the team and come on in for the big win . Just where exactly in Nam was the big win ?

 

[osan]

You'd be surprised what a small group of people of the right sort can accomplish.

I would not. Human cleverness and brass can be most impressive. But audacity must be of the right sort and I don't see much bent toward it as would be relevant to this discussion; at least, not for the cause of liberty. In fact, I see precious little of it. I appreciate the effort of the likes of Patriot Carrots handing out 2A information in a New Hampshire airport, rifle slung over his shoulder. Unfortunately, this will not suffice.

Sadly, nothing of the sort is occurring. This does not mean it will never happen, but I cannot get too excited about potential in the world of a species that wastes it as copiously as do humans. It is appalling - from the mere refusal to use the brains gifted to one, to the wanton destruction of the potential represented in an unborn fetus. And we do it with apparent glee. Go figger.

Might I also point out that there is a differentiating factor now present that did not exist in ages past: the current level of technology. It may now be (or not) that such small groups are no longer capable of subverting the orthodoxy... not unless they occupied lofty seats of power. The advancing technology wavefront is quickly closing all loophole opportunities for the little people. I will not say miracles are impossible, but I will say without equivocation that the likelihoods that something miraculous will happen are dropping by the minute.

Other than engaging in open slaughter of Themme and their children, the only real weapon we seem to have at this point is mass disobedience. Well alrighty then, but wait... where are all the disobedients? And there you have it.

 

[The Rebel Poet]

You mean the fake news that they put out because his poll numbers drop whenever the MSM reports that he is basically continuing the Bush foreign policy. You want to know what "they" do to opposition? They shoot at you or break your ribs.

This. anyone who thinks Trump is opposition (sans controlled) is either a hopeless slave of msm manipulation, or willfully deluding themselves due to the hope for change.