Time For A New Third Party?

[dannno]

There's nothing antithetical to libertarianism in choosing not to associate with certain people.



The goal of the proposed party would be to focus on issues that matter, contra culture-war issues.

Hence, the party would not try to appeal to (and/or would actively exclude) people obsessed with the culture war.

You did everything EXCEPT answer my questions.

I did NOT ask IF you can start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

I asked HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

SECONDARILY.

If you reject "the culture war", HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

You did everything EXCEPT answer my questions.

Your first question implies that there's a contradiction between advocating for freedom and not wanting to associate with certain groups.

...as I explained, there isn't.

Your second question implies that there's a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war and dissociating from culture warriors.

...as I explained, there isn't.

I did NOT ask IF you can start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

I asked HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals.

You want the mechanics of how I'd start a party?

Like, (Step #1) pick a name and draw up a platform, (Step #2) advertise a meeting....?

SECONDARILY.

If you reject "the culture war", HOW do you start a political party that promotes freedom which excludes certain cultures or individuals?

Again, if I didn't already answer your question, I don't know what you're asking.

 

[nikcers]

As Ron Paul would say we need a second party.

 

[dannno]

Your first question implies that there's a contradiction between advocating for freedom and not wanting to associate with certain groups.

...as I explained, there isn't.

That is not what my question implied. The first question was with regards to "how", aka in practice, how would you create a national political party that excludes certain cultures and individuals from participating..

Your second question implies that there's a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war while simultaneously dissociating from culture warriors.

...as I explained, there isn't.

Incorrect again.. my second question implied there is a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war whilst simultaneously dissociating from certain cultures..

You want the mechanics of how I'd start a party?

Like, (Step #1) pick a name and draw up a platform, (Step #2) advertise a meeting....?



Again, if I didn't already answer your question, I don't know what you're asking.

#3 Excluding people in a national political party, how do you do it?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

That is not what my question implied. The first question was with regards to "how", aka in practice, how would you create a national political party that excludes certain cultures and individuals from participating..

If your point is that a party which doesn't try to appeal to everyone will be smaller than a party that does, I agree.

And?

Incorrect again.. my second question implied there is a contradiction between wanting to get beyond the culture war whilst simultaneously dissociating from certain cultures..

I'm talking about dissociating from culture warriors.

If you want to call those groups "cultures," alright.

And?

#3 Excluding people in a national political party, how do you do it?

Say the Classical Liberal Party is having a meeting.

Fat naked hippy comes in yelling about pot.

Then lunatic Evangelical comes in yelling about demon rum.

How do we handle this?

We simply tell them to piss off.

...what's the mystery?

 

[Raginfridus]

Does there need to be a Party? I'm all for the old school teaching the new school, sharing contacts, donors, tips, whatever - there doesn't need to be a formal party.

If anything, I advocate libertarians overwhelm the current two parties from within. Keep face when needs be, and overwhelm them seat by seat. That's the only model. That's how the Trotskyists and Soviets took over the parties, and that's the only model we need to work on.

If I enter politics someday, it'd be as a Dem, but I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.

 

[nikcers]

Does there need to be a Party? I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.

Oh so adopt evil to beat evil then? We need political revolution and it won't be possible until both parties are gone so people stop seeing things as red or blue. We need to move beyond partisan politics, Rand Paul 2020

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Does there need to be a Party? I'm all for the old school teaching the new school, sharing contacts, donors, tips, whatever - there doesn't need to be a formal party.

If anything, I advocate libertarians overwhelm the current two parties from within. Keep face when needs be, and overwhelm them seat by seat. That's the only model. That's how the Trotskyists and Soviets took over the parties, and that's the only model we need to work on.

If I enter politics someday, it'd be as a Dem, but I'd work a scheme out with others for taking enough House seats in my state, and eventually the US Congress. I'd be happy to reach across party lines and "sacrifice" with fellow crypto-libertarians.

A formal and informal party can coexist.

 

[Raginfridus]

Oh so adopt evil to beat evil then? We need political revolution and it won't be possible until both parties are gone so people stop seeing things as red or blue. We need to move beyond partisan politics, Rand Paul 2020

What evil? Sorry you misread my post.

And you really did.

 

[PursuePeace]

What we need is someone to figure out how to make those damn sunglasses from They Live.

 

[nikcers]

What evil? Sorry you misread my post.

And you really did.

You said lets fight dishonest politics with dishonest politics did you not? Sorry you think deceiving people isn't immoral or evil.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'd like to be able to vote for a party which promotes laissez faire, sane foreign policy, and due process, which ignores the culture war, and which welcomes neither fat naked hippies, lunatic Evangelicals, nor people wearing tinfoil headgear. In short, I'd like there to be a libertarian/classical liberal party which Mises wouldn't be embarrassed to be associated with. Is this too much to ask? Especially in this circus of a political environment, I think a sober, policy-focused Classical Liberal Party (or whatever you might call it), which keeps well clear of who-gets-to-use-the-toilet tabloid politics, could do well and be a much more effective pressure group than the LP or CP.

Yes, it is.

You're describing a party dedicated to promoting individual and economic freedom.

Freedom is not popular.

You'd have no better luck than anybody else that's peddling freedom and liberty.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Yes, it is.

Evidently..

You're describing a party dedicated to promoting individual and economic freedom.

Yep

Freedom is not popular.

Yep

You'd have no better luck than anybody else that's peddling freedom and liberty.

You'd be surprised what a small group of people of the right sort can accomplish.

 

[nobody's_hero]

And then do we run from this party too when people start coming in that don't align 100% with the stated goals? Do we again just throw our hands up in the air and cry 'woe is me, we've been co-opted!'?

Pretty much when some of us were out distributing End the Fed flyers at Tea Party rallies, other people on these forums were whining about "Teocons" when in truth many of these average republican voters were disgusted with the GOP and ready to leave the party. It was a prime audience. The two movements now have more common ground than ever before, the enthusiasm drained from them like a Wall Street crony's corporate account before pulling the ripcord on his golden parachute.

A lot of libertarians on these forums don't seem to grasp the concept that the road to 'no government' and the road to 'smaller government' share the same stretch of asphalt for much of the way, but you won't work with anyone who doesn't land on Chance and proceed to full blown anarcho-capitalistic, collect $200.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You'd be surprised what a small group of people of the right sort can accomplish.

I'm tired of being one of the lone nuts on the fringe screaming warnings and dire predictions and grim forecasts.

I wanna jump on the team and come on in for the big win, just once in my life.

 

[AZJoe]

What's needed more than a new third party, is new first and second parties.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

And then do we run from this party too when people start coming in that don't align 100% with the stated goals?

No, they run.

Do we again just throw our hands up in the air and cry 'woe is me, we've been co-opted!'?

See above

Pretty much when some of us were out distributing End the Fed flyers at Tea Party rallies, other people on these forums were whining about "Teocons" when in truth many of these average republican voters were disgusted with the GOP and ready to leave the party. It was a prime audience. The two movements now have more common ground than ever before, the enthusiasm drained from them like a Wall Street crony's corporate account before pulling the ripcord on his golden parachute.

The "teocons" aren't the sort we want.

A lot of libertarians on these forums don't seem to grasp the concept that the road to 'no government' and the road to 'smaller government' share the same stretch of asphalt for much of the way, but you won't work with anyone who doesn't land on Chance and proceed to full blown anarcho-capitalistic, collect $200.

If it wasn't implied, let me say that ancaps won't be welcome: at least not insofar as they promote anarchism.

I'm tired of being one of the lone nuts on the fringe screaming warnings and dire predictions and grim forecasts.

I wanna jump on the team and come on in for the big win, just once in my life.

Jump on then

 

[r3volution 3.0]

We have so much talent.

..and it's just being wasted.

 

[nobody's_hero]

No, they run.

That's not the impression I get, when the solution to co-opting is to start a fresh, even more-obscure party. It very much looks like we are the ones running—infinitely divisible. That's not a problem when you are discussing secession, but when trying to build a political party with enough clout to do anything worthwhile . . .—just, NO we do not need another political party, that's my opinion, and this is a poll thread so I'm giving it.

The "teocons" aren't the sort we want.

the point is that we wrote them all off as 'teocons.' Any new recruits we might have gained were rinsed into the gutter with the real troublemakers. We basically helped the leftist media and the neocon establishment kill the Tea Party movement. it's a shame too, because there was more common ground between the libertarians and tea-partiers than any other political force out there.

 

[nikcers]

That's not the impression I get, when the solution to co-opting is to start a fresh, even more-obscure party. It very much looks like we are the ones running—infinitely divisible. That's not a problem when you are discussing secession, but when trying to build a political party with enough clout to do anything worthwhile . . .—just, NO we do not need another political party, that's my opinion, and this is a poll thread so I'm giving it.



the point is that we wrote them all off as 'teocons.' Any new recruits we might have gained were rinsed into the gutter with the real troublemakers. We basically helped the leftist media and the neocon establishment kill the Tea Party movement. it's a shame too, because there was more common ground between the libertarians and tea-partiers than any other political force out there.

From a libertarian standpoint its hard to say that we shouldn't start over. Last election would of been a libertarian moment, people hated the two other options, but we couldn't even pick someone who would defend the American system (capitalism) from the other candidates promising mixed economies, hell the guy that won the Republican nomination did so while praising socialist medicine, he should of been laughed off the debate stage, its hard to want to start a country with those people, they don't understand what made America great, they are just useful idiots who are no use to us. They are about to get a swift economics lesson though.