The retail apocalypse has officially descended on America

[Suzanimal]

Just don't bring your cell phone!

Meh, I only use it for emergencies. Surprisingly, I'm not one of those people.

And it is a free wine tasting, after all. Mr Animal was shocked when I told him I might not go, lol.

 

[RJ Liberty]

One of the major problems I have with online shopping is that the money doesn't stay local. Even in a retail chain, some of the money stays local to pay the workers in the store. Not so with online shopping. I hate to see what's happened in the gutting of American retail: department stores, bookstores, hundreds of chains out of business, and independents unable to survive. It'll be hard for my children to find part-time jobs when it comes time for them to earn some money.

 

[Madison320]

One of the major problems I have with online shopping is that the money doesn't stay local. Even in a retail chain, some of the money stays local to pay the workers in the store. Not so with online shopping. I hate to see what's happened in the gutting of American retail: department stores, bookstores, hundreds of chains out of business, and independents unable to survive. It'll be hard for my children to find part-time jobs when it comes time for them to earn some money.

It doesn't matter. Local retailers will find something else to do. If online shopping is more productive, it's ultimately better for everyone. It's the same, flawed "automation is bad" argument.

 

[tod evans]

One of the major problems I have with online shopping is that the money doesn't stay local. Even in a retail chain, some of the money stays local to pay the workers in the store. Not so with online shopping. I hate to see what's happened in the gutting of American retail: department stores, bookstores, hundreds of chains out of business, and independents unable to survive. It'll be hard for my children to find part-time jobs when it comes time for them to earn some money.

I had my retail side shut down by Amazon 2003ish........

They were selling Portercable tools to the public for the same money I could buy a pallet full to try and resell..Delta and Powermatic same thing....

About the time American tool manufacturers started importing they started mass-merchandising too....

Other industries have all gone the same way...

Retailing foreign shit is just the tail end of the problem....

 

[Madison320]

That's what's happening around here. The traditional mall stores (the smaller ones) are opening up in nicer versions of strip malls. Most of them have some nice restaurants and a theater close by. Which, btw, have really gotten nice. They turned the "old" one near us into a $2.00 theater for stale movies and the new one has recliners and a bar. Pretty sweet set up.

Same here. We had a huge outdoor mall built a few years ago. I just noticed the other day that they are bulldozing the old indoor mall.

When were indoor malls invented? 30 years ago maybe? I went the entire life cycle of indoor malls without hardly ever setting foot in one.

 

[Suzanimal]

Same here. We had a huge outdoor mall built a few years ago. I just noticed the other day that they are bulldozing the old indoor mall.

When were indoor malls invented? 30 years ago maybe? I went the entire life cycle of indoor malls without hardly ever setting foot in one.

Longer than that. I think the mall culture peaked in the early-mid 1980's but they were around way before then. The mall I grew up with opened in 1959 and it's one of the few left in Atlanta that's still strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenox_Square

 

[RJ Liberty]

It doesn't matter. Local retailers will find something else to do. If online shopping is more productive, it's ultimately better for everyone.

I don't buy that. "It's better for everyone" is a crappy argument. "Local retailers will find something else to do" coldly ignores the fact that real people are being driven out of business to push a global economy. If my kids can't find a part-time job outside of fast food, that's a problem.

It's the same, flawed "automation is bad" argument.

Wasn't part of the automation argument that it would save lives by making people more safe? So that they didn't have to work in unsafe factories? In the case of retail jobs, just who is being protected from unsafe working conditions?

 

[tod evans]

Kids working in stores selling goods their parents made is how this country was built...

Kids working in stores selling goods some of their parents unload from ships isn't an improvement.

 

[phill4paul]

Kids working in stores selling goods their parents made is how this country was built...

Kids working in stores selling goods some of their parents unload from ships isn't an improvement.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

 

[RJ Liberty]

I had my retail side shut down by Amazon 2003ish........

They were selling Portercable tools to the public for the same money I could buy a pallet full to try and resell..Delta and Powermatic same thing....

About the time American tool manufacturers started importing they started mass-merchandising too....

Other industries have all gone the same way...

Retailing foreign $#@! is just the tail end of the problem....

Well, and it doesn't help that our gov is subsidizing Amazon, to the tune of billions of dollars a year... which Amazon then uses to drive locals out of business.

 

[Madison320]

I don't buy that. "It's better for everyone" is a crappy argument. "Local retailers will find something else to do" coldly ignores the fact that real people are being driven out of business to push a global economy. If my kids can't find a part-time job outside of fast food, that's a problem.


Wasn't part of the automation argument that it would save lives by making people more safe? So that they didn't have to work in unsafe factories? In the case of retail jobs, just who is being protected from unsafe working conditions?

I'm exhausted from arguing against protectionism the last few weeks. Just name one country that improved its standard of living by switching to a more protectionist economy.

Here's a good article about what happened when the Philippines switched from a free trade to protectionist economy. They went being one of the richest to one of the poorest countries in the far east.

http://reason.com/archives/1994/06/01/a-tale-of-two-countries/

 

[RJ Liberty]

Hey guys, it's "ultimately better for everyone" if millions of brick and mortar businesses go out of business! Then everyone can get a great job doing... um...

That's the problem with people who will tell you it "doesn't matter" if millions of people have been driven out of business. "They'll find something else", they bleat. What exactly that is they don't mention. They'll minimize the problem, saying they rarely set foot in a mall; of course, most retail establishments were never in malls to begin with.

 

[tod evans]

I'm exhausted from arguing against protectionism the last few weeks. Just name one country that improved its standard of living by switching to a more protectionist economy.

Protectionism is government stopping local people from killing and looting foreigners who would infringe on their livelihood.

Not as you would argue.....

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Meh, I only use it for emergencies. Surprisingly, I'm not one of those people. .

No, I know. Writing, I was thinking of your story of your friend who kept fiddling with here phone the whole time she was supposed to be eating lunch with you. Oh, what have we come to?

 

[Madison320]

Protectionism is government stopping local people from killing and looting foreigners who would infringe on their livelihood.

Not as you would argue.....

In this case your use of the word infringe means "by offering a better product".

Just tell me where this has ever worked.

 

[timosman]

In this case your use of the word infringe means "by offering a better product".

Just tell me where this has ever worked.

Beverly Hills, Monaco, Switzerland, etc ....

 

[helmuth_hubener]

"by offering a better product".

That is a key.

Because, interestingly, for the most part offshoring does not offer a better product than historically.

That's not the whole problem, though. American-made products began seriously declining in quality, too, decades ago.

So, it's just been a race to the bottom. And people have adjusted to that reality. No one expects to buy a product once and keep it for years. They expect everything to be junk. They know -- they know -- by experience that it will be. And so the entire economy has rearranged itself around this reality.

Now, to re-rearrange it back to sanity, is shutting the doors on imports the whole solution? Would that do it? Just as you say, Madison320: definitely not.

The big thing that needs to happen is:

Start offering a better product!

As a nation, start making high-quality products again!

That, my friends, is the solution.

Incidentally, it is the solution for retail as well. Offer a better product. Hire better people. Refuse to hire surly people, refuse to hire morons. Design better policies and procedures. Make shopping a joy. Make the experience a thing of beauty.

You know whose brick and mortar retail stores are not failing? Ironically, a computer company's: Apple. Who else is doing very well? Chick-Fil-A. Menards. These companies cracked the nut and figured out the secret. It's not exactly new and it's not exactly a secret, but here it is again:

Offer a better product!

 

[tod evans]

In this case your use of the word infringe means "by offering a better product".

Just tell me where this has ever worked.

No my use of the word "infringe" doesn't mean what you say.

Why would you advocate for a government that protects importers and retailers over manufacturers?

I advocate for no government intervention.

 

[timosman]

 

[opal]

The mall parking lot here is usually barren.. occasionally there are a few senior buses getting their group walks where it's air conditioned.. too hot to get seniors out for a walk most of the year here