The government providing loans is an inherent attack on freedom. They are dilluting the store of wealth of everyone else that has money through counterfitting.
The REAL Gaddafi and what he wanted to do?
- Thread starter Magicman
- Start date
A Mainstream article.. this coming from someone who just posted a wikipedia link which didn't really support any of your arguments.. other than that you haven't really posted any evidence for anything . You are just speculating non common sense. The link i posted doesn't matter if it is MSM or not, it is a fairly straightforward non biased article. Supported terrorism? Why did the US remove Libya from their terrorist list during the Bush administration, why is Obama , Putin, Hilary Clinton, tony Blair and a pleuthroa of other world leaders hosting visits from him, shaking hands and conversing amiably.
The fact of the matter is that Libya prior to Gaddafi was nothing, huts , ridiculously low literacy, no money and no hope. He asked for nothing in return for the government facilities and programs he provided to the people. Why did the people love him? Where is any evidence to back up anything you have said, i have posted a few sources and you have cited wikipedia terrorism lol. Can you go read now..?
Are you 10 years old?
You are speculating nonsense.
It only matters if I post something MSM, with lots of sources. However, it is fine if you do it. But yeah, wikipedia articles are known for being so biased, while the Guardian is strictly neutral on everything (sarcasm, if you could not tell).
So the US government is a credible source now? Make up your mind. Could it be that...the US government is a rotten organization full of incompetent bafoons then, and is now?
Yes, a country with a tiny population discovering mass quantities of oil does tend to raise their living standards (which are still medicore and below any country in the Western world). I guess the Saudi's have a brilliant ruler as well, just compare their living standards now to where they were 50 years ago. That has nothing to do with his economic policies, which include one of the largest socialist states in the whole world with government health care, houses, education, cars, welfare, and a central bank.
Why did the German's love Hitler? The Russian's Stalin? The Chinese Mao? Government run education and government controlled media might have something to do with it.
You have cited two sources that have nothing to do with Gadaffi's socialist policies, both from mainstream websites. I have had a list of sources already put fourth in the OP, by Zippyjuan, and the bundle of sources from the wikipedia article. You have posted nothing of substance and made yourself look like a typical socialist in denial of the regimes crimes, just as communist denied the truth about the Soviet Union and China, claiming everything to be exaggerated. Governments are evil, and Gadaffi is a perfect example of it.
My link cited a half a dozen different incidents, every single one of which had mutliple sources.
You are speculating nonsense.
It only matters if I post something MSM, with lots of sources. However, it is fine if you do it. But yeah, wikipedia articles are known for being so biased, while the Guardian is strictly neutral on everything (sarcasm, if you could not tell).
So the US government is a credible source now? Make up your mind. Could it be that...the US government is a rotten organization full of incompetent bafoons then, and is now?
Yes, a country with a tiny population discovering mass quantities of oil does tend to raise their living standards (which are still medicore and below any country in the Western world). I guess the Saudi's have a brilliant ruler as well, just compare their living standards now to where they were 50 years ago. That has nothing to do with his economic policies, which include one of the largest socialist states in the whole world with government health care, houses, education, cars, welfare, and a central bank.
Why did the German's love Hitler? The Russian's Stalin? The Chinese Mao? Government run education and government controlled media might have something to do with it.
You have cited two sources that have nothing to do with Gadaffi's socialist policies, both from mainstream websites. I have had a list of sources already put fourth in the OP, by Zippyjuan, and the bundle of sources from the wikipedia article. You have posted nothing of substance and made yourself look like a typical socialist in denial of the regimes crimes, just as communist denied the truth about the Soviet Union and China, claiming everything to be exaggerated. Governments are evil, and Gadaffi is a perfect example of it.
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Echoes
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I dont think anyone's saying Kaddafi was a great guy. He built up areas of Lybia and infrastructure, it was a nomadic wasteland before him. He was anti-nwo and wanted a gold standard so he did do some good things. Overall he was a bad ruler, but i give him credit for standing up to the Global Mafia, which is a million times worse then him.
Are you retarded?
Your link that you posted also cited that America had taken Libya off it's list on terrorist supporters.. now why would it do that if Libya was such a renowned terrorist supporter? Explain this... if Libya is such a Worldly KNOWN terrorist supporter... do renowned terrorist supporters have friendly meet and greets with numerous leaders of various countries? Now your citation has been refuted.
On to my guardian source.. indeed biased, please find a source that disproves the evidence provided? ...
IT doesn't matter if the US is a credible source or not. it publicly removed Libya from its list of terrorist supporters... So what exactly is your argument here? The US government is full of incompetent bafoons.. the UK government is full of rotten baffoons .. you can apply this constant to virtually every country in existence.. So how does this single out Gaddafi as a bad HORRIBLE DICTATOR.. Contradict yourself much?
So what if it is a socialist country..Egypt is an Arab socialist country.. the majority of people are happy.. there is no foreign military intervention, no massive killings , little poverty and an above average quality of life in Libya .. or used to be. How does this allow the UN/US to intervene...?
Prior to 1939 Hitler was a fantastic leader... the people had every right to love him. He fixed the economic and social damage that was done by World war I, by increasing employment and strengthening the economy... It wasn't until he started invading other countries and exterminating jews/gays/retarded people that he could be considred evil.. How can you compare hitler... Stalin or Mao to Gaddafi.. each of those leaders were responsible for 10's of millions of deaths.?
Proof?
Travlyr
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That's crazy stuff. That article needs its own thread.
lawl
Could it be that the United States government lacks credibility? Could it be that the US government is wrong? Have you even considered asking why it was on the terrorist list in the first place?
I have nothing against the article you posted. You don't seem to be able to understand my rather simple argument. My sources were called incorrect for no stated reason, other than that wikipedia and its citations were mainstream. I pointed out that the Guardian is nothing more than a mainstream media source that makes thousands of articles.
Yes it does matter if the United States or British governments are credible sources. I place virtually no value in what governments led by Bush or Blair determined.
Both governments are rotten and corrupt, as is every government.
So what if it is a socialist country? I consider whether or not there are private property rights, freedom of speech, and freedom from government coercion, relavent to a discussion asking how tyrannical a man is.
The majority are happy? How do you know? Libya was in a civil war, apparently, some people were not happy. What does what the majority think matter? The majority of Americans were happy in the segregated South, just not the blacks that were getting lynched. How about the oppressed minority?
I'm a Voluntarist. I'm against all forms of interventionism. You're the guy that is endorsing socialism.
That's just an ignorant statement. Hitler began his persecutions before the war began. Germany was close to bankruptcy before the war began, and plundered other countries. Before WWII, Hitler was a demagauge that had already taken over two countries, ended all freedom of speech, taken control of the media, nationalized industries, began terrorizism minorities, and killing innocent people.
They were all dictators. They were all socialists. They were all killers. I would say that is enough reason to put them in the same lot.
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The Bavarian
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Wow, I am totally sharing this with my buddies, this video just dropped bombs of truth all over my mind.
+rep
+rep
HOLLYWOOD
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LIBYA: New Form For the US WARS?
Call-In/Email/Tweet: C-SPAN Washington Journal
Call-In Numbers:
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Republicans: (202) 737-0002
Independents: (202) 628-0205
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Call-In/Email/Tweet: C-SPAN Washington Journal
Call-In Numbers:
Democrats: (202) 737-0001
Republicans: (202) 737-0002
Independents: (202) 628-0205
Outside U.S.: (202) 628-0184
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: http://twitter.com/cspanwj
He wanted to unite Africa after failing his dream of uniting the Arab world. And he only wants to unite whatever piece of land he can find so he can be the dictator. His nation was richer than South Africa? Does the fact a nation is "richer" mean his people are "served"?
Funny that you mention the gold standard, because whenever I ask people what country has the right banking system, Libya isn't one of them they think of. Nor is Libya the preferred life they'd trade for their current one, which tells me they know that having a correct banking system is not on their priority list when choosing a place to live, do business and raise a family.
You mean like this?:
Like Ron says, let's use our imagination for a second and change that article just a bit...
My position in this whole ME bullshit is exactly the same as it was with the whole Vietnam bullshit...
What did Libya do to the US to warrant US intervention, using my sons and my and their future earnings? The Domino Theory with a twist? Humanitarian concerns to aid civilians? Rabid penchant to make everyone shop at WalMart with a Chase credit card? WTF is it? If you're going to post the history of Libya, please post the answer to my simple question.
Zippy (and others), you're good at posting partial facts to support everything the US does, including being the forum's chief Fed apologist, but please research the Pan Am bombing a bit deeper before you pontificate, especially since you're doing so as an American... you know, the country responsible for more civilian deaths than all others combined in the history of civilization.
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia... when will we stop borrowing trillions against the governments ability to tax its citizens to fuck with countries that pose no threat to us while Wanks here do little more than condone it all?
Bosso
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International Misery Fund / World Banksters
Those NTC barbarians don't realize, they just served their own heads on a platter to the HITMEN.
Confessions of an Economic HITMAN CIA CFR ... Done!
Yes but what you must understand is that there is no such thing as Libyans in the meaning of the word.
They are compromised of over 200 tribes each with its own agenda.You will see now when they need to form a "democratic" government and infighting will start.
The Warfalla tribe who is 1 million strong and who backed Gadafi would have to get 1/6 of their parlament seats in the elections.This would for sure lead to infighting cause Misrata and Bengazi did all the fighting and will want to rule but simply don`t have the votes.
And this is just the Warfalla ,what about Sirte and other loyalists?
And what everyone is forgetting is that the entire south of the country is still under Gadaffi loyalists control and that is where the water and oil to Libya comes from.If the Tuaregs decide to support them in exchange for autonomy after the fighting is over this war can last for another decade.
And the most important part oppressed people dont drive Chrysler and Toyota SUV`s.Did anyone see an old car?
They are compromised of over 200 tribes each with its own agenda.You will see now when they need to form a "democratic" government and infighting will start.
The Warfalla tribe who is 1 million strong and who backed Gadafi would have to get 1/6 of their parlament seats in the elections.This would for sure lead to infighting cause Misrata and Bengazi did all the fighting and will want to rule but simply don`t have the votes.
And this is just the Warfalla ,what about Sirte and other loyalists?
And what everyone is forgetting is that the entire south of the country is still under Gadaffi loyalists control and that is where the water and oil to Libya comes from.If the Tuaregs decide to support them in exchange for autonomy after the fighting is over this war can last for another decade.
And the most important part oppressed people dont drive Chrysler and Toyota SUV`s.Did anyone see an old car?
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No Free Beer
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Couldn't agree more. That being said, HOW we went in there and WHY we went in raises eyebrows. Am I glad, in a sense, he is gone? Yep. Does it mean there will be peace in that country? Nope.
Carole
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I remember being in high school and sitting on the front steps beside my best friend as we were discussing Goldwater. The only thing I recall about the conversation was that I was making a point to her about how the middle class would eventually be squeezed out because they were going to be pressured from above (government) and below (people asking for more from government). At the time I doubt that I had enough knowledge to articulate it very well, but my friend and I were both on the same page.
I talk to her two or three times a week still today. She is struggling a bit with my total commitment to Dr. Paul, but she mostly agrees with me. It is the "electable" and "out there" argument again. She is fearful I think and lacks the confidence that I have in Dr. Paul
Gadaffi was both a monster and an ideological man. Perhaps he did or did not do all the things of which he has been accused, but it would appear that at least some parts of his ideology were working in some way. For how many I do not know. Here, we never get the real news of other countries. We have to ferret out any information we can and then question its veracity.
The octupus strangling the world and strangling America seems to grow new tentacles with each one we try to cut off. We have a monster on our hands, but in the words of Sam Adams: "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."
Were not the recent uprisings in the mid-east perpetrated by determined minorities, rather than by huge majorities? If so, it seems that it is another case of the noisy wheel getting greased. Whether that noisy minority has the right of it, I certainly do not know, but there seems to have been a trend even here in America in which a vocal minority demands and gets its way because there is always a group of Alinsky types who see the power in using that group. Noisy spoiled children always testing and demanding more, they have not the slightest clue that acquiescing to all their demands will soon rob them and their children of everything they took for granted.
These conflicts and revolutions come and go, rise and fall, change things for good or bad. The most important consideration for me though is that without the rule of law, there is no truth and there is no true justice. Thanks for your comments anaconda.
wannaberocker
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YOu hit the nail on the head. Hell reading from the comments folks make Gaddafi sound like a freedom loving liberatarian.
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