The LP Sold Out: Nominates Anti-Freedom Drug Warrior Bob Barr!

[majinkoola]

Libertarians have never played "politics."

How's that working out?

 

[Aratus]

my theory is...

He'd have a department of agriculture?

mike gravel is a harry s. truman democrat... oftentimes horse manure can be composted.
at least gravel has not left his agrarian society new dealer past behind. seems to me
bob barr should at least have a hypothetical cabinet in mind should he actually be called
on by destiny and lady liberty to serve our nation for four years... my theory!!!

 

[TheConstitutionLives]

How's that working out?

It's worked out great for them. Only 10% of the American populace even knows it exist. I say they should keep doing the same thing over and over. I'm sure the two big parties would love that too.

 

[TheConstitutionLives]

Now that he is out of office. Oh, and he feels really kind of, well, "sad" about all those poor SOB's that are locked up in jails and prisons around the country for violating HIS anti-drug prohibition -- you know, I mean he's not going to like publicly say they should really be released or anything -- or that HE is personally responsible for it or anything like that -- just that he feels, you know, kind of well, "sad" about them (and their F'd up families and such)...

Oh, and like he DEFINITELY thinks that THAT somehow constitutes an apology, and that you should really TRUST him now and vote for him, and most especially send him money... 'cause, well, you know, he did a *bad* thing and he feels *sorry.*


I say let him serve a year in the clink for every person whose constitutional rights were violated (try 18 USC 242) and then, AFTER HE HAS PAID HIS "DEBT" TO SOCIETY (in the same way he has demanded of others) we'll decide if we accept the "apology."

Do the time first Bobby. Then we'll see about "parole."

Otherwise, he's nothing but another pandering BS-filled politician.

- Have you been a pure blood freedom fighter since you came out of your mother's womb? If not, then you should go to prison for sitting on the sidelines while your fellow Americans were being prosecuted for non-crimes.

Good god. Heaven forbid someone have an awakening and change their position on an issue.

It's not like he changed his position in recent months in order to capitalize in this election. He changed his position two years ago and has been involved in the party since then.

Some of you folks wouldn't vote for the perfect candidate if given the choice b/c if he's perfect then something isn't right about him. Rediculous.

 

[torchbearer]

blah blah blah... the libertarian party sold out.. blah blah blah.

Ruwart would have won...

blah blah blah... the libertarian party is a debate club with no interest in growing... blah blah blah

Never going to satisfy everyone. Either get over yourself and make a strong statement with someone who will be on the ballot.. or continue bitchin'.. since that is so productive and will change everything.

 

[torchbearer]

How's that working out?

Exactly, the biggest argument our rivals make against voting libertarian is that we never get over 1% of the vote.. and it would be a waste to vote for a 1%er.
How about we make a coalition with the more moderate segment of the party and try to make a difference. Try to show we can gain considerable votes in an election.
A Romney voter is more likely to vote for Barr, than for Ruwart.

You want to really change things in the libertarian party?
Become a delegate. It's real easy in most cases.. just show up.
So- if you weren't in Denver to vote, STFU.
Until you go the extra mile, until you participate, your bitching is meaningless and should be seen as purposeful distractions from the people who are actually doing something about the problems.

 

[Bradley in DC]

blah blah blah... the libertarian party sold out.. blah blah blah.

Ruwart would have won...

blah blah blah... the libertarian party is a debate club with no interest in growing... blah blah blah

Never going to satisfy everyone. Either get over yourself and make a strong statement with someone who will be on the ballot.. or continue bitchin'.. since that is so productive and will change everything.

+1 for Brent!

 

[torchbearer]

+1 for Brent!

Did you see Steve Dasbach on stage with Barr?
He post on here, perhaps he can share with us what he personally thinks of Barr.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Did you see Steve Dasbach on stage with Barr?
He post on here, perhaps he can share with us what he personally thinks of Barr.

What he personally thinks of Barr? He's worked with him on the LRC, has been helping us promote Barr to the delegates, gave a nominating speech for Barr at the convention...

 

[DrSpock]

Exactly, the biggest argument our rivals make against voting libertarian is that we never get over 1% of the vote.. and it would be a waste to vote for a 1%er.
How about we make a coalition with the more moderate segment of the party and try to make a difference. Try to show we can gain considerable votes in an election.
A Romney voter is more likely to vote for Barr, than for Ruwart.

You want to really change things in the libertarian party?
Become a delegate. It's real easy in most cases.. just show up.
So- if you weren't in Denver to vote, STFU.
Until you go the extra mile, until you participate, your bitching is meaningless and should be seen as purposeful distractions from the people who are actually doing something about the problems.

Your points are entirely valid though I do think you miss the objections that people are raising. This is not about the purity of the LP, it is about the possible deception of the new LP presidential candidate. Many people do not trust his conversion and it is just that simple.

This argument could go on and on forever, and it is unlikely that anyone will change their mind.

Vote for who you feel you should vote for in the general election, it is your vote and your choice. That is less important than the continued efforts on the local level.

Continue to do what we do best, take them from the ground up.

 

[Aratus]

dare i ask the degree of angst were the people who backed barr to also push for gravel as the veep guy?

 

[Aratus]

if its not mike gravel, who i think REALLY suffers under the interloper label, then who is ahead right now in the veep race? does anyone know who is to get the nod or who is very close to the same?

 

[torchbearer]

Y

Continue to do what we do best, take them from the ground up.

+1, definitely!
We shouldn't overlook taking on the collectivist at the local level.
Most important.

 

[torchbearer]

What he personally thinks of Barr? He's worked with him on the LRC, has been helping us promote Barr to the delegates, gave a nominating speech for Barr at the convention...

He supports Barr enough to tie his name to his campaign.
Its been awhile since I've talked to Steve, but I know he is a long time Libertarian, and he has worked with Barr.
His insight would be credible.

 

[mtmedlin]

I am sick that they chose Barr, but at this point who else is there to support. I will take 70% of what I want over knowing Obama and McCain will give me damn near 0%.

 

[ARealConservative]

Libertarians have never played "politics." Harry Browne specifically stated that all drugs should be legaized. If Bob Barr is going to be the nominee then he should state flat out that he supports the legalization of all drugs.

Until he does that he is simply a person that likes to throw innocent people in prison so they can be seperated from their families and have their lives ruined.

The Libertarians are a political party - hence they play politics.

The game they have always played was an educational one. They forfeit the competitive application of attempting to win or even influence outcomes for educating people in the hopes that their victory is in future elections.

Essentially the party changed its stripes today - they voted not purely as an educational block but with a far more pragmatic view.

Only the vision of hindsight will be able to accurately tell the tale of success or failure, but in my opinion, today was a far greater victory for future elections then the previous game of playing puritan educator.

You cite the drug war, but many Paul voters aren't comfortable simply flicking the switch in the opposite direction. A federalist approach is the better way to solve this and it will need to be handled incrementally. I'm with Barr in not wanting heroine or meth to be legalized immediately in my state and I'm sorry if that angers anybody.

We have created a safety net for decades. Tens of thousands of addicts exist thanks to that safety net. We need a comprehensive plan that reduces government while not throwing the pendulum so fast in the opposite direction that systems fail and freedom is blamed.

For everybody angry about what happened today, in the back of your mind remind yourself that many Ron Paul Republicans are happy with the big tent approach the Libertarian Party proved capable of being today.

 

[torchbearer]

The Libertarians are a political party - hence they play politics.

The game they have always played was an educational one. They forfeit the competitive application of attempting to win or even influence outcomes for educating people in the hopes that their victory is in future elections.

Essentially the party changed its stripes today - they voted not purely as an educational block but with a far more pragmatic view.

Only the vision of hindsight will be able to accurately tell the tale of success or failure, but in my opinion, today was a far greater victory for future elections then the previous game of playing puritan educator.

You cite the drug war, but many Paul voters aren't comfortable simply flicking the switch in the opposite direction. A federalist approach is the better way to solve this and it will need to be handled incrementally. I'm with Barr in not wanting heroine or meth to be legalized immediately in my state and I'm sorry if that angers anybody.

We have created a safety net for decades. Tens of thousands of addicts exist thanks to that safety net. We need a comprehensive plan that reduces government while not throwing the pendulum so fast in the opposite direction that systems fail and freedom is blamed.

For everybody angry about what happened today, in the back of your mind remind yourself that many Ron Paul Republicans are happy with the big tent approach the Libertarian Party proved capable of being today.

Thread Winner!

 

[Bradley in DC]

I am sick that they chose Barr, but at this point who else is there to support. I will take 70% of what I want

Barr might happily surprise you.

 

[mport1]

All of you that are freaking out over Barr should chill out. We need everybody's support to help spread the liberty message and our party is too small for all this infighting. I'm as radical a libertarian as they come but I fully support the Barr/Root ticket - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139155&highlight=barr

 

[libertad16]

Can't Believe You

All you Barr haters are crazy. Simply nuts. I don't understand you at all. Barr's definitely not a 100% super-pro-libertarian-freedom God like Ron Paul, of course. But this is politics, you don't just get the perfect person who everybody loves. Barr's changed his positions to become pro-freedom like us. He's on our side.

Let's look at the "REAL" libertarians and see how well they would do: 2004 Presidential candidate Michael Badnarik is a software engineer who lived in his parents basement while running for President. Americans are going to really take that seriously, that really makes us not look extreme or fringe.

Mary Ruwart campaigns on things like "adults should be allowed to have sex with children if children consent." Wow, real mainstream issue that's going to resonate with voters right there.

I'm not even going to talk about how much of a joke the Constitution Party's Chuck Baldwin is.

The LP needs to stop this talk of never compromising, never giving an inch. A guy like Barr, if he takes 10 or 15% of the vote, can help the party become more well known and get Libertarian Party candidates actually ELECTED. The goal is to make this party viable.

Every article online about this nomination mentions "The best the LP has done is 1.1% in 1980. Take a look at the next election results in your area. The results will be something like this - Republican (46%), Democrat (45%), Libertarian (2%). If you're never going to compromise your principles AT ALL EVER, than start a freakin' think-tank and rant and rave all you want in your policy analyzations, because the purpose of a political party is to GET ELECTED.

Also political parties are INCLUSIVE. All this "he's not a REAL libertarian, she's not a REAL libertarian is BS...Mike Gravel and Ron Paul and Bob Barr are all libertarians in different ways. People can have SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT OPINIONS!!!

Please get with the program here.