The Christian Right Is Back And Ready To Dominate The 2012 Campaign

[erowe1]

2/3 of attempted pregnancies fail, so should that woman be charged with manslaughter? What about miscarriage? That's a new life according to you.

Fail.

For a death to be murder or manslaughter there has to be somebody culpable. In miscarriages that's not the case.

Also, I don't think the 2/3 number you cited is accurate. But suppose for the sake of argument that it is. That would mean that with about 4 million babies born each year, there are 8 million that don't make it to birth, and of that 8 million 1.5 million are abortions. So, even with your figure, about 1/5th of all deaths in the womb would be murders. If 1/5th of all deaths of people outside the womb were murders, would you not consider that a problem?

 

[truelies]

2/3 of attempted pregnancies fail, so should that woman be charged with manslaughter? What about miscarriage? That's a new life according to you.

Fail.

100% of human lives end in death. Sometimes as in the case of all induced abortion one human being is deliberately killed by another who has suffered to threat or attack from their victim. A libertarian or a Christian will tend to be bothered by that. A communist/fascist/libertine or general statist will not be bothered as long as said communist/fascist/libertine or general statist is on the dishing out rather than receiving end of the violence.

 

[Sola_Fide]

2/3 of attempted pregnancies fail, so should that woman be charged with manslaughter? What about miscarriage? That's a new life according to you.

Fail.

Hmmmm. Was this supposed to be a rational argument of some kind? I don't get it.....

 

[YumYum]

Hmmmmmm, and you would deny the party with the greatest stake (aka the inutero child) a voice........because??????????

No, I'm against abortion, but there is nothing I can do, nor you can do, nor anyone else can do, to legally stop someone from having an abortion. Like I have pointed out, the Evangelicals under Bush had control of our government for 5 1/2 years and did nothing to stop abortion. If they represented God and were doing His bidding, they failed miserably. They blew the one time they had to make a law to stop legal abortions, and they will never get the chance again.

So, the only way to stop abortions is to educate people and try to work with pro-choice advocates on ways to reduce abortions. Pro-choice advocates believe in safe sex, and that means using condoms. "Condoms" not only lowers the risk of disease, but it also reduces the risk of unwanted pregnancies. There are ways the two groups can work together, instead of fighting, to bring down the abortion numbers.

Otherwise, arguing about when life begins, a woman's rights, a fetus' rights, is all noise at this point. It keeps people divided.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

It wasn't an argument from biology, it was an argument from the law of identity. A is A, and A is not non A.


Besides, I don't "deny biology", I don't deny science either. Science can be very useful, but it can never be TRUE in the final sense. Science is approximation, not finality. Arguments purely from observations are inductive, and therefore always fallacious.

qft and +rep

 

[truelies]

No, I'm against abortion, but there is nothing I can do, nor you can do, nor anyone else can do, to legally stop someone from having an abortion. Like I have pointed out, the Evangelicals under Bush had control of our government for 5 1/2 years and did nothing to stop abortion. If they represented God and were doing His bidding, they failed miserably. They blew the one time they had to make a law to stop legal abortions, and they will never get the chance again.

So, the only way to stop abortions is to educate people and try to work with pro-choice advocates on ways to reduce abortions. Pro-choice advocates believe in safe sex, and that means using condoms. "Condoms" not only lowers the risk of disease, but it also reduces the risk of unwanted pregnancies. There are ways the two groups can work together, instead of fighting, to bring down the abortion numbers.

Otherwise, arguing about when life begins, a woman's rights, a fetus' rights, is all noise at this point. It keeps people divided.

The laws will be changed one way or another and then enforced with rigour. BANK ON IT.

 

[amy31416]

The laws will be changed one way or another and then enforced with rigour. BANK ON IT.

Gotta agree with the Yumster on this. The laws aren't going to change any time soon, if ever and even if they did, people will still be able to get abortions. Whether that's by a back alley or some other method that Dannno has brought up numerous times. You want to change it, education, is the way to go.

 

[truelies]

Gotta agree with the Yumster on this. The laws aren't going to change any time soon, if ever and even if they did, people will still be able to get abortions. Whether that's by a back alley or some other method that Dannno has brought up numerous times. You want to change it, education, is the way to go.

Things may well be changing far more quickly than you can possibly imagine with the past providing no clue to the future. In the new society after the singularity I expect the lowlife sort who would provide or procure an abortion will turn out to be remarkably unfit for survival.

 

[WilliamC]

Things may well be changing far more quickly than you can possibly imagine with the past providing no clue to the future. In the new society after the singularity I expect the lowlife sort who would provide or procure an abortion will turn out to be remarkably unfit for survival.

What an interesting statement.

From whence do you envision coming the selective pressure?

 

[amy31416]

What an interesting statement.

From whence do you envision coming the selective pressure?

Mmmmm...yeah. Sounded just a hint creepy the way I read it.

 

[erowe1]

Gotta agree with the Yumster on this. The laws aren't going to change any time soon, if ever and even if they did, people will still be able to get abortions. Whether that's by a back alley or some other method that Dannno has brought up numerous times. You want to change it, education, is the way to go.

I agree too. I just don't see the two things as mutually exclusive.

But I have to admit, if Christians took all the zeal they devoted to politics over the past 30 years and put it toward crisis pregnancy centers and promoting adoption, they would have been far more effective in saving babies. What people don't often get is how their pet issues get used as tools by people who don't care about them at all. The reason so many states had gay marriage things on their ballots in 2008 was in order to GOTV. And Republican leaders just love how every single election Christians think that that's the one election that will make or break the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, which the politicians hold out in front of them to make them do what they want like making a donkey follow a carrot.

 

[amy31416]

I agree too. I just don't see the two things as mutually exclusive.

But I have to admit, if Christians took all the zeal they devoted to politics over the past 30 years and put it toward crisis pregnancy centers and promoting adoption, they would have been far more effective in saving babies. What people don't often get is how their pet issues get used as tools by people who don't care about them at all. The reason so many states had gay marriage things on their ballots in 2008 was in order to GOTV. And Republican leaders just love how every single election Christians think that that's the one election that will make or break the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, which the politicians hold out in front of them to make them do what they want like making a donkey follow a carrot.

Yeah. And pro-life people need to be willing to put their money, time and effort where their mouth is. Meaning adoption, support--not just protests. And I would love nothing more than the cognitive dissonance of being pro-life, pro-war and Christian be addressed, there are so many charlatans in the pulpit.

 

[erowe1]

Yeah. And pro-life people need to be willing to put their money, time and effort where their mouth is. Meaning adoption, support--not just protests.

Are you under the impression that pro-life people don't do that?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Otherwise, arguing about when life begins, a woman's rights, a fetus' rights, is all noise at this point. It keeps people divided.

Sounds like you have something to take up with Ron Paul. Because he has clearly stated that life begins at conception.

 

[YumYum]

Sounds like you have something to take up with Ron Paul. Because he has clearly stated that life begins at conception.

I have no disagreement with Ron Paul on life beginning at conception. Even if life begins at conception (which I believe), nothing is going to stop legal abortions because the Republicans had their chance to make abortions illegal and they did nothing. If Ron Paul believes this way, why didn't he present a bill to end legal abortions, since he sees it as "murder"? Do only the states have the right to determine what is "murder"? If that is what some people believe, I think that might be taking states' rights a little too far. If Ron is against abortion, he should have done something to either outlaw them, or decrease the amount of abortions in this country.

Its like erowe1 said, Republicans have used the abortion issue to win the next election; "dangling like a carrot" the prospect of making abortions illegal to gain votes. Its really disgusting and deceitful, something God hates as much as abortions. (Being deceitful, that is).

 

[cheapseats]

Uh huh. You believe that a birth canal is the "magical portal" where a baby finally gets the right not to have his brain sucked out or spine severed.

Cite the source for your attributing that belief to me, or stand accused not only as Hysteric, but LIAR.

Your "belief" is ridiculous and you should be ashamed to say you are a rational, thinking person and still hold that belief.

But I'm NOT ashamed of my beliefs, 'cuz I believe DIFFERENTLY than you. Rational people would EXPECT some of that in a world populated by BILLIONS and, yes, even in a country populated by mere millions. Rational people, discovering that NOT EVERYONE ON EARTH FEELS/BELIEVES AS THEY DO, would devise Coping Mechanisms . . . not try, expensively and futilely, to ENJOIN THEIR BELIEFS ON OTHERS.

I find YOUR beliefs ridiculous.

Now what?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Cite the source for your attributing that belief to me, or stand accused not only as Hysteric, but LIAR.





But I'm NOT ashamed of my beliefs, 'cuz I believe DIFFERENTLY than you. Rational people would EXPECT some of that in a world populated by BILLIONS and, yes, even in a country populated by mere millions.

I find YOUR beliefs ridiculous.

Now what?

My belief is ridiculous? That babies have the right not to have their brains sucked out and spine severed before they have passed through a birth canal? You think that's ridiculous?

 

[cheapseats]

My belief is ridiculous? That babies have the right not to have their brains sucked out and spine severed before they have passed through a birth canal? You think that's ridiculous?

I find your belief that it is your job to impose your strongly held BELIEFS on Others to be, candidly, WORSE than ridiculous.

 

[cheapseats]

My belief is ridiculous? That babies have the right not to have their brains sucked out and spine severed before they have passed through a birth canal? You think that's ridiculous?

Have you a stash of gruesome photos from which to draw, that I may see BRAINS & SPINE at conception?

 

[cheapseats]

Faith has nothing to do with it.

You are for individual rights, except when it comes to the unborn. I support individual liberty for everyone. Not just for those who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY FOR THE UNBORN.

I draw attention to NOT born. NOT at liberty, no matter how much money is thrown at RIGHTS OF UNBORN, no matter how many elections are derailed trying to ensure Liberty where it does not yet exist. All the while diminishing Liberty that DOES exist.

Yes, I call that ridiculous.

RIGHTS OF UNBORN is Legal Eagle heaven.