Swiss vote to ban construction of minarets on mosques

[torchbearer]

If there are that many RP supporters who support this type of persecution, then I fear the future of this movement.

I think some people would support tyranny as long as it supported their variety of religion.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I think some people would support tyranny as long as it supported their variety of religion.

Or their lack thereof.

 

[jmdrake]

Yet!
Now there likely will not be.
Go Swiss!

Then just pass a law banning outdoor speakers. Really, how hard is that? With this stupid law the Swiss just passed a mosque could build a flagpole and put speakers on it. So will the Swiss then ban flagpoles rather than take the obvious step and banning permanent outdoor speakers? Or just have a freakin' noise ordinance!

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[torchbearer]

Or their lack thereof.

the only advocates of the ban in this thread are religious freaks.

 

[Pericles]

I think a lot of Muslims will boycott Switzerland due to this decision.

That is exactly what the sponsors of the vote want. If what you do does not integrate seamlessly into Swiss culture, they would rather not have it.

They resent people from other places coming to their country and (from their point of view) forcing an alien culture on them.

Kinda like when the USA invades other countries .....

 

[jmdrake]

the only advocates of the ban in this thread are religious freaks.

In this thread maybe. I've seen hateful threads from atheists too. (One saying that Christians should be sent to "re-education" camps). And you only have to look at the former soviet union for an example of an atheist dominated government oppressing all religious views.

 

[BlackTerrel]

@ fozz, blackterrel

religious freedom you say....

if a Muslim says that he has a right to kill a person because that person insulted his religion/god/prophet do you call that religious freedom? and yes quran grants him that permission... there are violent verses in quran. And I've heard old bible is no different. But remember Christianity went through renaissance period and in most countries church & state are separate... But Islam never under went any changes/revival since 7th century. it has always resisted change. That's why it'll always be in friction with modern civilization.

And if I wanted all Muslims dead then there would be difference between me & those who follow hate ideology. I believe no killing can ever be justified unless it is done in self-defense...

Religions have done more harm to humanity than good. There is no god... get over it!

stop calling people names if you can't put forth your argument in a reasonable manner.

You contradict yourself a number of times but at some point you are saying that yes every religion can be used for good and bad. At which point I would agree.

 

[BlackTerrel]

I don't understand how anyone can defend this, I am pretty sure this goes against international law as well. Christians and Jews are standing up with the Muslims.

This was opposed by Christians, Jews, Muslims, the media, the government, business organizations etc...

It's a shame that the one time the people decide to stand up to the establishment it is in such a bigoted manner.

Switzerland does not have a problem with radical Islam. Muslims are about 5% of the Swiss population and they go about their daily lives like everyone else. They have also never experienced a terrorist attack.

Why the population would go out of their way to pass such a bigoted law is beyond me. And there is no doubt that this is 100% bigotry, spare me the nonsense about towers are speakers. This was specifically done to antagonize a particular group (in this case Muslims) and give them a big fuck you.

Kind of makes you happy to live in the US doesn't it? Every now and then I get a reminder like this one. Despite the number of terrorist attacks we've had here, we're smart enough not to judge entire populations of people based on the actions of a small minority.

 

[Pericles]

Lol they have minarets here in AMERICA, and they do not go off. It's to keep the integrity of the mosque, its like to tell a church to take off its steeple.

News flash! In the town I live in the USA, even churches have to follow the zoning laws.

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

News flash! In the town I live in the USA, even churches have to follow the zoning laws.

no shit, I cant even have a live chicken on my property.

 

[BlackTerrel]

If there are that many RP supporters who support this type of persecution, then I fear the future of this movement.

There really aren't that many. Go ahead and add them up.

And check how many of those are generally bigoted against other groups as well. Whether or not they really support Ron Paul is anyone's guess. I mean let's be real here - Paul would vote against this a hundred out of a hundred times.

 

[jmdrake]

News flash! In the town I live in the USA, even churches have to follow the zoning laws.

Yes. But those zoning laws cannot discriminate against a particular religion. If you have a zoning law that bans minarets then steeples would also have to be banned. Someone else in this thread mentioned chickens. One zoning law that barred animal sacrifice was struck down by the supreme court because it was deemed aimed at Santaria.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Danish, Dutch Populist Parties Want Referendums On Minaret Ban

http://www.rferl.org/content/Danish...s_Want_Referendum_On_Minaret_Ban/1891427.html

(RFE/RL) -- It's been criticized as an expression of prejudice at odds with European values of tolerance. But in a referendum on November 29, Swiss voters approved a ban on the building of minarets.

And now populist parties in Denmark and the Netherlands say they want referendums, too.

The calls came from two parties known for their tough stances on immigration.

Geert Wilders, head of the Dutch Freedom Party, told the Dutch daily "Volkskrant" that his party "will call upon the government to make a similar referendum possible in the Netherlands."

And in Denmark, Danish People's Party head Pia Kjaersgaard welcomed the Swiss ban and said her party would also seek a similar vote.

Martin Henriksen, a deputy for the Danish People's Party, acknowledged that Denmark currently had no mosques with minarets. But he told RFE/RL that Muslim immigrants have to adapt to Danish society, not the other way around...

The guy basically acknowledges "we don't have any Mosques with minarets in our country but we want to pass this law anyway, just to be assholes".

Just so they don't dare step out of line

 

[Dieseler]

You are an ignorant frother. You choose to oppress Muslims under the made-up and idiotic scenario that they will force Sharia law on the country.

FYI, most MUSLIM countries do not have Sharia law. Pakistan does not have Sharia law, and neither do Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Morocco, India (which has a large Muslim minority), and Turkey, among many others.

Wtf is a Frother?
Lmao.


Yeah I said something shitty there.
I take it back.

 

[devil21]

Wtf is a Frother?
Lmao.
Go bomb somebody.

Uncool response and I would have expected better.

The poster is correct. Do you really believe all the neo-cons yelling ("frothing" at the mouth?) about how all Muslims really just want to take over the world and institute Sharia Law over the US? I sure hope not. As Fozz points out, there's plenty of Muslim countries where Sharia Law isn't even in place.

 

[Dieseler]

Uncool response and I would have expected better.

The poster is correct. Do you really believe all the neo-cons yelling ("frothing" at the mouth?) about how all Muslims really just want to take over the world and institute Sharia Law over the US? I sure hope not. As Fozz points out, there's plenty of Muslim countries where Sharia Law isn't even in place.

In a nutshell.
Yes.
I do believe just that.
The neocons and Zionist are attempting to do the same.
No faction is any better than another.
I pulled no punches with Zionist Supremacist ElyaKatz and I pull no punches here.
Go Swiss! Protect your Nation as you will.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Actually.
I'm not sorry.

the only advocates of the ban in this thread are religious freaks.

You can tear down the frikkin (church) Bell towers to while your at it.
If its loud and its not related to work, industry a train or has the potential to be, then I'm against it.

 

[devil21]

If that's the case, I'd think they'd start working on instituting Sharia Law in their own native countries before attempting to take over the rest of the world. Seems a little bit like putting the cart before the horse.

 

[SL89]

Ah shit! Probably should stay out of this one! Haven't seen flames this hot in a long time on RPF.
I am against the ban and hope that it is overturned. What the article fails to cite is the reasoning behind this so called "democratic" backlash. Is this preemption for what has happened in other parts of Europe? Where immigrants holding sharia law as there guide, hope to change the demographic and laws of a nation? Just a question.
I lived in Germany for 10 years and enjoyed the bells from the churches. And to this day you can tell time based on the quarterly chimes. Not loud or pretentious, just there. This used to be in the US. too. I remember the silence after they banned the bells....(I miss it and I am not a practicing church guy). They were not calling out a mandated call to prayer. No preacher quoting something out of a book . It was just a bell.
Yes, I know what a minaret is, and in some countries they use this beautiful architectural design to place speakers in them to make "the" call to prayer. In some States the christian churches are silent but, the "call" goes on 5 times a day. The hypocrisy is beyond me. I have heard the "call" countless times when I was in the Mid-East. I am undecided on how it made me feel. (not really but, I was in their country, Can't bitch, They built their country and have to live in it.)

But, I will digress, The Muslims around here must be accommodated, for their religion dictates prayer times. The ACLU has made sure they cannot be discriminated against. But, if you are a Catholic, you cannot get mandated time off for what is called "Holy Days of Obligation". Christian symbolism is repeatedly denied while something different is forced down our throats. Tolerance is a four way street.

Tough road we are on.... Peace all!

 

[Liberty Star]

This ban would be over turned, not because of global Swiss cheese or massage ban but because religious tolerence will be forced down on scared swiss males and females by their or EU courts. Probably a good thing in this case because this repressive gesture shows little more than phobia of things people are ignorant about , which is a redundant statement. That said, this should be handled at diplomatic level, I don't think it would be smart for US to invade Sweden to spread religious freedoms there, our military is spread too thin already enforcing freedom among Iraqi shiites and sunnis.

But, I will digress, The Muslims around here must be accommodated, for their religion dictates prayer times. The ACLU has made sure they cannot be discriminated against. But, if you are a Catholic, you cannot get mandated time off for what is called "Holy Days of Obligation". Christian symbolism is repeatedly denied while something different is forced down our throats. Tolerance is a four way street.

Tough road we are on.... Peace all!

Saying name of Jesus or display of Cross has become a political sin in US. Problem is that very few if any conservative Christians join ACLU, it is probably packed with godless liberals, jews, muslims, hindus, non-whites and other ethnic minorities. Another dynamic is that under the radars a political alliance between jews and muslims is emerging, their alliance in last elections resulted in highest number of non-Christians elected to US Congress since launching of America. There were almost 70 muslim-jewish members whereas numbers of Christians in the White House and Congress shrunk drastically. In this atmosphere, it's harder to touch muslim and other minority religion symbols but Christian symbols are fair game because "turn the other cheek" thing is taken too literally.

From news reports, same thing seems to be happening there as muslims, jews, catholics and moderates are allying to defend the minarets. I'm with moderate swiss sharia minarets on this issue as long as non-white refugee people freely and peacefully practice their religion with their own volution:



Quote:

GENEVA (AFP)---Switzerland's biggest Jewish groups said Wednesday that a far-right push to ban the construction of minarets here was a "threat" to religious harmony and hindered the integration of Muslims.

"The referendum infringes religious freedom, a concept enshrined in the constitution," said the Swiss Federation of Jewish Communities and the Platform of Liberal Jews in Switzerland in a statement.

It "also poses a threat to peaceful relations between the religions and inhibits the integration endeavours of Muslims in Switzerland," they added.

Swiss voters are to decide during a referendum on November 29 whether to ban the construction of minarets in Switzerland, a proposal launched by right-wing groups and backed by the country's biggest political party, the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP).

The two Jewish groups said they "take seriously the fears of the population that extremist ideas could be disseminated in Switzerland."
"But banning minarets is no solution -- it only creates in Muslims in Switzerland a sense of alienation and discrimination," they said.

The Swiss government and all the other major political parties are recommending a 'no' vote. In a historic move, local Christian, Jewish and Muslim leaders have also joined forces to reject a ban on minarets.

In September, the Roman Catholic community joined in the call urging voters to reject the ban.

Islam is the second largest religion in Switzerland after Christianity with 310,000 followers out of a population of 7.5 million. Four minarets have been built and the construction of a fifth is planned.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

So the Swiss State, as well as the entire religious establishment, opposed the measure but it passed anyway?



I just became a fan of democracy. Even mob rule can work out sometimes