STOP Demonizing Teachers and Cops.

[pcosmar]

Ok, so there are a FEW good apples in the rotten bushel.
It still does not change the fact that the bushel is rotten.

This could go on for pages and those that will not seen the problem still won't see it.
I would *almost welcome the tanks in the street, just to end the pretense. Some still won't see the problem.

*I say almost. It will be sad for those that get caught in the crossfire. But that is unavoidable at this point.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

And, yet, Western Civilization was started because of a social act of someone who was the most worthy choosing to instead lower themselves to that of a servant.

I don't see how your reference to western civilization studies and use of winding sentences that run in circles have any relevancy towards socialist tendencies in what was meant to be a free country.

Socrates lived in a totally different time with a different government and we don't even know what it was truly like because we don't even have a substantial amount of documentation only speculation based on a little evidence to which thousands of pages in generic history books were written. It's my opinion liberal arts studies and studies focused on western civ are outdated and inaccurate.

You are trying to compare apples to screwdrivers. Seriously.

 

[PrairieQueen]

Of course people are entitled to their opinions. That being said, it's understandable that one might be turned off when they see that another poster's first response to an OP is "fuck off." Though, this being the internet, I'm surprised PrairieQueen isn't used to it by now.

PrairieQueen, this thread is representative of most internet forums, sadly.

Oh I have seen and been in my fair share of threads like this, but see, I have yet to see where anyone involved had their minds changed. Usually it is the opposite and people dig their heels in and shoot crap back and forth, even just for the sake of not admitting they had changed their mind.

anyway, I have to go. This is why I don't post much, really don't have time to do more than lurk.

 

[Howard_Roark]

STOP Demonizing Teachers and Cops.

Let's go on the Ron Paul Blow back principal.

When at the Campaign for Liberty I brought a very smart history teacher with me. I have opened her eyes to the bullshit between the whole REP & DEM Hypocrisy thing and she came with an open mind. After several of the speakers trashed teachers then at the lunch a few of the members trashing teachers she closed her mind and had a bitter Taste about the whole thing. Next time when you are speaking in public or to others think about how you turned away a potential supporter.

We need to focus ON THE SYSTEM not the INDIVIDUALS !!!!!!
It is the system that keeps and maintains the Rotten Apples.
It is the system that is Dumbing down our kids.
If the system was changed SO would the teaching.

THERE ARE A LOT of GOOD teachers and cops WE NEED their support to fight TYRANNY.

The government has a monopoly on education and will not allow private companies to compete through school vouchers and choosing which school to go to. Teachers unions are a major reason that school vouchers never get off the ground. Ayn Rand divided everyone into producers (I think right name), leeches and moochers. Teachers are moochers. Police spend the vast majority of there time enforcing frivilous drug laws without which most of them wouldent have any job. If you want to praise government officials boy do I have a party for you - DEMOCRAT.

 

[pcosmar]

Wow , that's pretty good.

Originally Posted by PrairieQueen
I have lurked here for a long time and almost everyday I consider deleting my account because of threads like this.

So, I know it won't matter to some, but I would like to say WELCOME to any teachers or cops or anyone who is here to learn, like myself. I hope I won't delete my account tomorrow

First post
Threaten to close the account.
And effectively derail the thread.

Hmmm.

 

[Deborah K]

See I don't believe it can be changed, and certainly not by infiltrating it. It needs to be removed, dissolved, destroyed, not changed. If you want to try and change it, good luck, just don't ask me to help with what I think is impossible. This is a back issue though, I think we agree on the big ones.

What do you think about vouchers? Wouldn't that be a constructive change for starters? What is your suggestion? Abolishing the public school system? And replacing it with what? Nothing?

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

The government has a monopoly on education and will not allow private companies to compete through school vouchers and choosing which school to go to. Teachers unions are a major reason that school vouchers never get off the ground. Ayn Rand divided everyone into producers (I think right name), leeches and moochers. Teachers are moochers. Police spend the vast majority of there time enforcing frivilous drug laws without which most of them wouldent have any job. If you want to praise government officials boy do I have a party for you - DEMOCRAT.

Because it is the most natural behavior in the world, one doesn't need to teach tyranny although teachers were once employed by the master classes to train their children how to one day rule. During that time, there existed no such thing as public property in the sense that the people owned it or were educated in public schools. The ruling king owned all the property in the past meaning that he or she represented the state.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I used to think vouchers would be a step in the right direction. You know, for competition. But, then I realized that if private schools were forced to accept said vouchers, then they would be under the government's control for doing so and would be forced to comply.

 

[pcosmar]

What do you think about vouchers? Wouldn't that be a constructive change for starters? What is your suggestion? Abolishing the public school system? And replacing it with what? Nothing?

Vouchers would be better than nothing. I would like to get something back for the children that I don't have but am paying for.
Better yet would be abolish the public school system and let parents be responsible for their children's education.

 

[Deborah K]

I used to think vouchers would be a step in the right direction. You know, for competition. But, then I realized that if private schools were forced to accept said vouchers, then they would be under the government's control for doing so and would be forced to comply.

There isn't a need to use vouchers for private schools, is there? I'm thinking of competition between public schools. And I also think we should get rid of the Dept. of Ed. Let the states tend to their own schools.

 

[LibertyEagle]

There isn't a need to use vouchers for private schools, is there? I'm thinking of competition between public schools. And I also think we should get rid of the Dept. of Ed. Let the states tend to their own schools.

I could be wrong about how things are now, but back when they were first introduced, the plan was to force all schools to accept them and that includes, private schools. That's my major concern about these things.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

I used to think vouchers would be a step in the right direction. You know, for competition. But, then I realized that if private schools were forced to accept said vouchers, then they would be under the government's control for doing so and would be forced to comply.

Tax credits! Tax credits give control to the taxpayer (sadly, even those who pay no taxes), and the only government control would be licensing... Hell, if we do it right, you could use private accreditation agencies.

Of course this would require people to exercise some discipline, but I'm sure some private contract could be written to assign rights to future tax "returns" at discount in exchange for tuition credit.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Tax credits! Tax credits give control to the taxpayer (sadly, even those who pay no taxes), and the only government control would be licensing... Hell, if we do it right, you could use private accreditation agencies.

Licensing? You mean as in licensing the institution as a school?

 

[Deborah K]

I could be wrong about how things are now, but back when they were first introduced, the plan was to force all schools to accept them and that includes, private schools. That's my major concern about these things.

Well, if that's the case then I wouldn't be for that. I'd be for dismantling the Dept.of Ed., give the school issue to the states, and have vouchers in the public school system. And here in Cali, I'd get rid of the California Teacher's Ass. right off the bat!!

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Licensing? You mean as in licensing the institution as a school?

yeah, there has to be some mechanism to avoid diploma mills... but using the existing private accreditation agencies would suffice.

 

[LibertyEagle]

yeah, there has to be some mechanism to avoid diploma mills... but using the existing private accreditation agencies would suffice.

Yeah, I'd be much more in favor of private accreditation agencies, as opposed to government licensing. And if parents chose to send their children to an unaccredited school, they should have the right to do that, or to homeschool. Bottom line, I don't want the government involved in education, in any way, shape, or form. I think it's really dangerous to allow anyone that much control over our children's minds.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Yeah, I'd be much more in favor of private accreditation agencies, as opposed to government licensing. And if parents chose to send their children to an unaccredited school, they should have the right to do that, or to homeschool. Bottom line, I don't want the government involved in education, in any way, shape, or form. I think it's really dangerous to allow anyone that much control over our children's minds.

Think we could sell the tax credit for homeschool families if the kids pass standardized tests? Think about the incentives.. Most districts spend 6-9k per year per kid. If homeschooling really does reinforce liberty thinking, something like that could make a huge impact within a generation.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Think we could sell the tax credit for homeschool families if the kids pass standardized tests? Think about the incentives..

Would you please explain to me what you're thinking about with regard to tax credits?

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Would you please explain to me what you're thinking about with regard to tax credits?

Take a reasonable tuition figure (whatever the current catholic schools charge, they seem to be doing the best job at the moment) say 4k per kid. If you pay property tax, then you deduct your 4k per kid from your property tax bill. If you dont pay that much tax, then you see a 'refund' (cash payment) for anything over your property tax, assuming that you incurred the 4k cost for tuition. If you cant pay your tuition up front, the school has you assign your 'refund' or you make monthly payments (in lieu of what would normally be attached to your mortgage).

For home schoolers, if the kids meet the same kind of private accreditation based standards that their peers are expected to maintain as measured by an objective test (like a kids version of SAT et., al.), then you qualify for the 'credit' even though you didnt incur the cost (obviously the cost of the materials isnt insignificant).

Call it a 'results based competition system' Schools not only have to compete with each other, but also with parents. Mothers are more likely to stay home with their kids and teach them well. Everyone has an incentive to do a good job, and the .gov is relegated to accountants.

 

[Theocrat]

Are You Part of the "Problem," TW?

The cops and teachers are willingly working WITHIN the current "system". That makes them PART of the TYRANNY problem.<IMHO>

And yet, here you are posting as a member on a forum which supports the principles of a man who is an elected official of the very system you hate, not to mention this forum seeks to promote and elect candidates who will restore a republic which you believe is inherently evil.

So, what does that say about you?