Sovereign Mars?

[orafi]

Been googling a bit...
There is water on Mars:
On June 19, 2008, NASA announced that die-sized clumps of bright material in the "Dodo-Goldilocks" trench dug by the robotic arm had vaporized over the course of four days, strongly implying that they were composed of water ice which sublimated following exposure. While dry ice also sublimates, under the conditions present it would do so at a rate much faster than observed.[43][44][45]

On July 31, 2008, NASA announced that Phoenix confirmed the presence of water ice on Mars, as predicted on 2002 by the Mars Odyssey orbiter. During the initial heating cycle of a new sample, TEGA's mass spectrometer detected water vapor when the sample temperature reached 0 °C.[46] Liquid water cannot exist on the surface of Mars with its present low atmospheric pressure, except at the lowest elevations for short periods.[47

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Mars_Lander#Presence_of_shallow_subsurface_water_ice

Now if we colonize in the Melas Chasma we are already 12 kilometers below the martian surface, which helps a lot pressure wise. For oxygen it's Hemp to the rescue. Mars is like 98%CO2 and hemp loves CO2 and gives O2 in return, and Hemp will grow in Martian soil (according to some guys blog anyways). So toss up some tents, plant your seeds and you've started micro-terra-forming a little campsite to start on construction of the colony.

Yes I know I'm just fantasizing about being a hemp farmer on Mars, but this is an enjoyable discussion just the same.

eb

Dude with hemp you can have material for not just terra forming, but for food, buildings, vehicles and fuel! That would be fantastic

 

[NinjaPirate]

Stupid questions:

When talking about growing hemp on Mars, are we talking about growing them in greenhouses with Earth-like conditions? Or, are we just planting seeds in Martian soil exposed to the Martian atmosphere??

 

[amonasro]

Stupid questions:

When talking about growing hemp on Mars, are we talking about growing them in greenhouses with Earth-like conditions? Or, are we just planting seeds in Martian soil exposed to the Martian atmosphere??

Seeing as Mars has no breathable oxygen, very little atmosphere, and freezing cold temperatures, pretty much everything would have to live in some sort of climate/atmospheric-controlled greenhouse that reproduced earthlike conditions.

 

[dr. hfn]

The Mars Fleet!

and...

YouTube - Babylon 5 Declares Independence

 

[NinjaPirate]

Seeing as Mars has no breathable oxygen, very little atmosphere, and freezing cold temperatures, pretty much everything would have to live in some sort of climate/atmospheric-controlled greenhouse that reproduced earthlike conditions.

Alright just checking.

 

[Razmear]

Stupid questions:

When talking about growing hemp on Mars, are we talking about growing them in greenhouses with Earth-like conditions? Or, are we just planting seeds in Martian soil exposed to the Martian atmosphere??

If you increase the air pressure surrounding martian soil you will release the water and nutrients within so greenhouses would need to be near earth pressure and temperatures.
Vent systems could take atmospheric CO2 into the greenhouses and take breathable O2 out to the colony.
The greenhouses would be like big beer cans, half below soil, half above, then pressurized.

Planting seeds outside of greenhouses might be possible in the 12km deep chasm if the air pressure is high enough due to the depth to allow liquid water to form in the soil, but I wouldn't bet on it.

eb
ps: wasn't a stupid question at all.

 

[tmosley]

Planting seeds outside of greenhouses might be possible in the 12km deep chasm if the air pressure is high enough due to the depth to allow liquid water to form in the soil, but I wouldn't bet on it.

It's not, unfortunately. The pressure at the bottom of that trench is the same as the pressure 25 miles up. The pressure needs to increase 6-fold to stop blood from boiling, but that is better than having to increase it 10,000 fold, as you would on the surface. Down in the trench, you could survive with a simple compression suit and a respirator/helmet (along with a heat source). If you were to go up onto the surface proper, you would need something closer to an all out space suit.

 

[Elwar]

Try to seastead, and some banana republic cutter will confiscate everything that is yours (plus you are growth limited, since you can't increase the size of your boat while living there).

I was thinking more like living on the bottom of the sea. There's a lot of room to grow down there, plus all the water you want (once distilled).

Along with a decent electrical source.

Even on Mars you'll need defenses. I doubt that everyone will get along once there.

Defending the bottom of the ocean doesn't seem too hard. Anti-missile defense seems easier in water.

 

[tmosley]

I was thinking more like living on the bottom of the sea. There's a lot of room to grow down there, plus all the water you want (once distilled).

Along with a decent electrical source.

Even on Mars you'll need defenses. I doubt that everyone will get along once there.

Defending the bottom of the ocean doesn't seem too hard. Anti-missile defense seems easier in water.

The only way you are going to manage that is if you dig in around methane clathrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate) deposits, and place charges around them so you can sink/knock incoming missiles, ships, submarines, and planes out of the sky, assuming you had the observational capability to detect them coming. Depth charges are a bitch when you're living under the sea. Observation is much easier over interplanetary distances, with no interference from animal life, etc.

 

[nayjevin]

lol, this is a sci-fi plot I have had rolling around in my head for quite some time.

Sovereign Mars collaborative short story????!!??

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=228274

 

[Razmear]

Observation is much easier over interplanetary distances

Very true, once established it would not be difficult to repel any invasion with ground based defenses. Mars gravity is 38% of Earth's, not sure if thats low enough to make my SKS an interplanetary defense rifle, but definitely gives the home team the edge.

Re: short story.
Stories have great ideas sometimes, so feel free to co-opt this thread for any storytelling on the topic. A "Hemp Farming on Mars for Dummies" how to manual would be cool too

Anyways, my guesstimate is that we could own Mars for somewhere between 20 and 100 Billion dollars and be done with all the asshats in charge down here on Earth.
The first settlers here came because they realized they could not change the status quo at home so they hit the seas and built a new world and claimed it as their own. Settling Mars is just the next logical step in the flight against oppression.

eb

 

[CaseyJones]

Mars gravity is 38% of Earth's

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/spacebabies/

 

[Razmear]

38% is a lot more than zero gravity, so probably wouldn't be a problem. If so we'll just need to build breeding centrifuges to ensure proper fertilization. Ever do it in a Gravatron Ride at the amusement park

eb

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This thread reminds me a little of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Any libertarian who hasn't read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress & Alongside Night doesn't know what they are missing!

 

[axiomata]

This thread reminds me a little of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Any libertarian who hasn't read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress & Alongside Night doesn't know what they are missing!

This post reminds me a little of post #15.

Seriously though, he's right. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress should come with Human Action to give readers something quick and entertaining to breeze through during times when the length and intensity of Human Action gets to you.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This post reminds me a little of post #15.

Seriously though, he's right. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress should come with Human Action to give readers something quick and entertaining to breeze through during times when the length and intensity of Human Action gets to you.

True true. I think the longest book I've ever read though is Rothbards MES Power and Market. That shit is like 1500 pages

 

[orafi]

This thread reminds me a little of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Any libertarian who hasn't read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress & Alongside Night doesn't know what they are missing!

is there a movie on those books? (i know i know the book will always be best)

 

[adamant]

Anyone consult the Martians about any of this? Seriously, what if there are sentient beings there? Colonization of foreign lands never works out too well for indigenous populations.

 

[torchbearer]

watch the movie "Moon" (2009)

 

[ScoutsHonor]

Anyone consult the Martians about any of this? Seriously, what if there are sentient beings there? Colonization of foreign lands never works out too well for indigenous populations.

For SURE. Just watch AVATAR,