So now what?

[wgadget]

Have a read.

http://politicsandprosperity.wordpr...elligence-personality-politics-and-happiness/

Thanks..Interesting.

 

[wgadget]

With Beck, you mean?

Yes, he was a major instigator. I think Hannity got in on the act as well, did he not?

Those creeps have WAY too much influence, imo.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Remember Debra Medina.

I'm glad you mentioned her. I'm sorry I didn't think about her sooner in this discussion.

 

[No1butPaul]

Think about the delegates who spent money to get to Tampa only to have the campaign cut a deal.

I was thinking about that this morning ... its heartbreaking really.

 

[Mini-Me]

Yes, he was a major instigator. I think Hannity got in on the act as well, did he not?

Those creeps have WAY too much influence, imo.

I can't argue with you there...

 

[cajuncocoa]

<snip>

This is for you, Bastiat's The Law:

OT: I've noticed you have my username, as well as the usernames of two of my longtime friends, listed in your sig and have called us out as a "Defeatist trolls".

Perhaps you should read this post from Bryan, who I see is one of the admins here. I've bolded the part to which you should pay particular attention:

In many forums there are often individuals who decry others as "troll" and the like. While this may be mildly entertaining and accurate, there are often problems with this tactic to maintaining good community decorum.

My personal philosophy is that there are no trolls, there is just troll behavior. Claiming someone to be a troll assumes you understand the intent of the poster, in our case here, if they are truly a supporter of Dr. Paul or not.

Here at RPFs.com, in this campaign of freedom and peace we do not want to assign people into groups such as if they really support Dr. Paul or not or if they are a troll or not. However, if there is disruptive behavior it should be dealt with. It doesn't manner if the people truly support Dr. Paul or not- we can never really know that but we can study and understand how individuals deceptively engage in troll behavior to incite disruptions against our campaign objectives (different than healthy debate and disagreement). The goal of the forum guidelines and sub-forum structure has been crafted to best deal with issues of disruptive behavior to the forum community and they can continue to be refined, suggestions are always welcome:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Some people argue that we should quickly ban disruptive users, in some cases it may be justified but in other cases if we banned Dr. Paul supporters who are engaging in postings that are possibly harmful to the campaign they'd just go elsewhere and continue to do the same. So in my view, it is an asset to the campaign for the more wise and politically experienced users to help lead the way.

As Bradley in DC stated so wonderful in his "Supporters taking it to the next level" marquee piece: we are the leaders and ambassadors - we need to act like it.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22808


Thank you, and good day.

Furthermore, while looking through the Forum Guidelines, I came across this post from JoshLowry, the Senior Admin:

Moderators, Bryan, myself and others have put this together.

Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this forum is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

I think it will be displayed at the top of a page for guests to read along with some text encouraging them to join. If you are logged in then you won't see it, but it will be on the guidelines page.

Maybe now you, or any of the other know-it-all GOP mouthpieces who want to have those of us banned who disagree with you, can tell us just what part of this Mission Statement it is that we are violating? Hmmm?

Moderators? Anyone??

 

[Carlybee]

Yes, he was a major instigator. I think Hannity got in on the act as well, did he not?

Those creeps have WAY too much influence, imo.

In complicity with Rick Perry's campaign because he was the establishment choice. So they were interfering at the state level as well.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Most of the younger (my) generation don't give a crap about politics, so believe me they are hardly going to be corrupted by the process. As we continue to embed ourselves within the leadership structure of the GOP, the corruption will minimize. As far as Rand goes, all he did was pay lip service to R-money and you want to act like the sky is falling. Yet in the Senate, he and others took on the McCain element in regards to NDAA so in no way shape or form is he anything but a pro-liberty politician. Rand just takes a more pragmatic approach to furthering liberty principles than does Ron. Ron is old school and calls it like it is by saying we need to bring the troops home and close oversea bases. Rand wants to audit the Pentagon to show exactly where the money is spent and where it is wasted and then by default, fiscal conservatives will have to look at defense spending and see where the money really should go for defense and cut out the junk.

Ron punches to the head and Rand punches to the body, it's a good combination.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I don't either. I'm vaguely thinking: 1) keep up the gains in the GOP; and 2) start an organization that would support a new party, eventually, and 3) go after fraud in this GOP cycle in the courts, as remedies, pursuing changes to the system so state and major party collusion through ballot access laws etc can't disenfranchise all the nation who don't like the major party candidates.

That would take a lot of interest and support by people besides me, though. I'm just kicking thoughts around.

Too many moving parts. Too many people pulling in different directions.

 

[Carlybee]

Too many moving parts. Too many people pulling in different directions.

Get my name out of your sig now.

 

[sailingaway]

Too many moving parts. Too many people pulling in different directions.

Yeah, but your entire participation in this subforum has been to pull people OUT of it to your projects, so I kind of personally see you more as an outsider (on this subforum, not to the forums overall) trying to make everyone go your way, than as one of the members of this subforum community determining direction.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

But, if they and the chipin helpers didn't spend any scratch to get there then none in the movement would've placed any high hopes and no one would be freaking out right now and assessing who to scapegoat. I think it was very beneficial for us that we forced the RNC and co to do what they did to show how officially dirty they can be. If it burned some people out about playing GOP politics then so be it. If it made others decide that they were gonna be extra active in flipping the old guard and restoring the party then even better. I have no problem if people want to take different approaches but to continually decry the GOP restoration project despite the many successes we've seen all over the board on this board, is a slap in the face to Ron and others that have taken the bull by the horns and still do. I'll still vote lib from time to time but my short term goal is changing my state party's leadership and getting better people from our area in the RNC. If this is duplicated in as many places as possible, we can revenge the corrupt bastards for what they've done to us and the good doctor.

Precisely. Many dwell on losing this RNC fight, but forget that just getting into the room to fight is a major accomplishment. No other avenue would've gotten us into that fight with the GOP brass; of course the alternative is joining the Vermin Supreme party or some other useless third party and fighting amongst ourselves for...what exactly? Who gets to wear the Burger king crown that day?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Yeah, but your entire participation in this subforum has been to pull people OUT of it to your projects, so I kind of personally see you more as an outsider (on this subforum, not to the forums overall) trying to make everyone go your way, than as one of the members of this subforum community determining direction.

Since when is working within the GOP "my project"? It was Ron Paul's plan..and it's been successful. I'm trying to remind people of that before they piss it all away.

 

[angelatc]

Too many moving parts. Too many people pulling in different directions.

Plus rep.

 

[wgadget]

Get my name out of your sig now.

Yep. This is a definite violation of libertarian rule #2: I will not encroach on other people or their property.

Tut-tut, Bastiat.

 

[MelissaWV]

Too many moving parts. Too many people pulling in different directions.

But I'm only concerned, for now, with which direction I want to pull in. I guarantee you if one of the avenues sailing mentioned gains traction, people working on the other ones will hop on to help out (and to gripe, but that's human nature).

 

[anaconda]

call Gary Johnson, get him to slide down to VP , run as Libertarian, and insure that Obama wins.

that the SOBs at the GOP would remember in 2016.

^This. In my opinion, it would accomplish just as much if Ron joined the Libertarian ticket as VP. But Gary might like that Ron can get a fat chunk of matching funds and raise his own profile if he lets Ron take over the Presidential slot on the ticket. Ron must accompany this with a detailed report and press conference calling out the corruption in the Republican party.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

In 2008, it took the GOP leadership no real effort to steamroll us. This time, they're desperately pulling out all the stops and sweating the whole way. They're still likely to succeed, but it's obviously getting a lot harder for them. I'm not sure how the lawsuit against their cheating will fare, but the fact we are able to mount one at all shows that we've forced the GOP leadership into making themselves vulnerable. (Unless we're going to go around literally tarring and feathering the cheaters, the lawsuit is our best hope for close scrutiny and accountability for this particular election.) Now that we've taken over the GOP in a few states, I think it would be wise for the long term to keep up the pressure...anything else, and they'll feel relief. They'll keep cheating of course, but we're still winning small victories one at a time despite everything, and every time they cheat gives us another opportunity to expose them with a lawsuit. We're knocking their supports out from under them one by one with every state chairman position we grab, and once we make it to replacing the RNC - an achievable goal in the long term - it's all over.

Giving up on reforming the GOP is exactly what they want from us, and it's the behavior they're trying to encourage: What they're doing here is not just blocking our delegates. What they're doing is using emotional manipulation, like a nervous villain giving a speech to the heroes about why it's hopeless and they should stop struggling. I see a lot of people here who are nodding their heads in agreement with the villain, but I for one think that listening to them would be a huge mistake. As rigged as the GOP is, the general elections are even more rigged against third parties and independents; the laws were made this way to splinter opposition and turn third parties into dead-end traps.

We should still vote for third parties in general elections, but actually expecting to gain any real ground from them is a pipe dream. Even if we managed a Ross Perot-like showing and mustered a Presidential victory in a single election, plurality voting ensures the two-party system would reassert itself quickly, and we would not have the national infrastructure we need to field a large number of Congressional and Senatorial candidates...which is essential for actually changing the voting laws, among other things. With the third party route, we cannot build upon small victories to achieve more (like winning state chairs in the GOP). Instead, every single election would be a new battle just as hard as the last, from a similar starting point in terms of miniscule resources...like trying to build our success on a foundation of quicksand.

I think that's the key point that GOP strategy naysayers misunderstand: If we want lasting success, the foundation for it must come first. We don't have the resources to win a large number of elections ourselves, and neither do third parties. Winning the Presidency for Ron Paul would have been a tremendous symbolic and practical achievement, but even if we did, he could not save our country alone...he could only buy us more time to mount a larger assault on the establishment, and use the bully pulpit of the Presidency to demonstrate the message by example. In the long run, the GOP leadership's momentary success in cheating Ron Paul out of delegates is much, MUCH less important and lasting than our success at grabbing GOP chairman positions one at a time. Their success shows their current institutional strength, but our smaller successes show that if we keep it up, they're not going to have that strength forever.

While expecting much from third parties is a pipe dream, expecting change to happen outside of the political system entirely - like through massive civil disobedience - is absurd: We live in a country where a dismal number of people are even willing to vote third party in a general election to protest the two-party system, so the idea that a critical mass would risk everything in a tax revolt (for instance) is just ludicrous at this point...and as long as the government has its funding, it will continue raping and pillaging.

Brilliant post.

 

[wgadget]

^This. In my opinion, it would accomplish just as much if Ron joined the Libertarian ticket as VP. But Gary might like that Ron can get a fat chunk of matching funds and raise his own profile if he lets Ron take over the Presidential slot on the ticket. Ron must accompany this with a detailed report and press conference calling out the corruption in the Republican party.

Oooooooooooooohhhh.....PLEASE, GOD.

 

[Carlybee]

Oooooooooooooohhhh.....PLEASE, GOD.

But he won't. Rand is too tied in to the GOP now. He won't jeopardize that even though he wasn't shown the same courtesy.