Should immunizations be forced?

[RonRules]

Here are the benefits of vaccination:

* Diphtheria
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 175,885
Cases in 2003: 1
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Hib (<5 yrs old)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 20,000 (estimate)
Cases in 2003: 259
Decrease in cases per year: 98.8%

* Measles
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 503,282
Cases in 2003: 56
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Mumps
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 152,209
Cases in 2003: 231
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Pertussis (whooping cough)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 147,271
Cases in 2003: 11,647
Decrease in cases per year: 92.1%

* Polio (paralytic)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 16,316
Cases in 2003: 0
Decrease in cases per year: 100.0%

* Rubella
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 47,745
Cases in 2003: 7
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Smallpox
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 48,164
Cases in 2003: 0
Decrease in cases per year: 100.0%

* Tetanus
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 1,314
Cases in 2003: 20
Decrease in cases per year: 98.5%

* Misconception #1: Because of better hygiene and sanitation, diseases had already begun to disappear before vaccines were introduced.
* Misconception #2: The majority of people who get the disease have been immunized.
* Misconception #3: There are hot lots of vaccine that have been associated with more adverse events and deaths than others. Parents should find the numbers of these lots and not allow their children to receive vaccines from them.
* Misconception #4: Vaccines cause many harmful side effects, and even death—and may cause long-term effects we don't even know about.
* Misconception #5: DTP vaccine causes sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
* Misconception #6: Vaccine-preventable diseases have been virtually eliminated from the United States, so there is no need for my child to be vaccinated.
* Misconception #7: Giving a child more than one vaccine at a time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.
* Misconception #8: There is no good reason to immunize against chickenpox (varicella) because it is a harmless disease.
* Misconception #9: Vaccines cause autism.
* Misconception #10: Hepatitis B vaccine causes chronic health problems, including multiple sclerosis.
* Misconception #11: Thimerosal causes autism: Chelation therapy can cure it.

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html


Besides, ask Ron Paul himself next time if he agrees with the benefits of vaccination !

 

[Agora]

I have some not so nice experiences with vaccines in my family so that kind of statistics doesn't change my view.
especially list of "misconceptions"...
but, I'll keep checking out the facts and who is paying it, for sure.

 

[Agora]

...
* Misconception #1: Because of better hygiene and sanitation, diseases had already begun to disappear before vaccines were introduced.
* Misconception #2: The majority of people who get the disease have been immunized.
* Misconception #3: There are hot lots of vaccine that have been associated with more adverse events and deaths than others. Parents should find the numbers of these lots and not allow their children to receive vaccines from them.
* Misconception #4: Vaccines cause many harmful side effects, and even death—and may cause long-term effects we don't even know about.
* Misconception #5: DTP vaccine causes sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
* Misconception #6: Vaccine-preventable diseases have been virtually eliminated from the United States, so there is no need for my child to be vaccinated.
* Misconception #7: Giving a child more than one vaccine at a time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.
* Misconception #8: There is no good reason to immunize against chickenpox (varicella) because it is a harmless disease.
* Misconception #9: Vaccines cause autism.
* Misconception #10: Hepatitis B vaccine causes chronic health problems, including multiple sclerosis.
* Misconception #11: Thimerosal causes autism: Chelation therapy can cure it.

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html


Besides, ask Ron Paul himself next time if he agrees with the benefits of vaccination !

http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html ????

and you call the video I recomended "silly" ? ouch

..."During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA)."


explain to me, please...

 

[RonRules]

Barrett is 75 years old. I'd like to see you try to re-pass exams for your college degree, if you have one.

He has impeccable credentials and has been tireless in his fight against medical nonsense. Have a little respect for the old man.

Besides, it's not just ONE man's opinion but the OVERWHELMING consensus of medical scientists that agree that vaccination is essential. Your anecdotal evidence does not make for adequate evidence. Look at the success of vaccination instead.

You'll be the FIRST crying for a vaccine as soon as the bird flu gets to our shores. Good luck with homeopathy and similar nonsense.


"Barrett is the consulting editor for the Consumer Health Library at Prometheus Books,[4] has been a peer-review panelist for at least[5] two[6][7] medical journals. He has also served on the editorial board of Medscape[8] and The Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine.[9] According to his website, he "has written more than 2,000 articles and delivered more than 300 talks at colleges, universities, medical schools, and professional meetings. His media appearances include Dateline, the Today Show, Good Morning America, Primetime, Donahue, CNN, National Public Radio, and more than 200 other radio and television talk show interviews."[5]

Barrett has received a number of awards and recognition for his consumer protection work against quackery.[10] Quackwatch received the award of Best Physician- Authored Site by MD NetGuide, May 2003.[10] In 1984, he received an FDA Commissioner's Special Citation Award for Public Service in fighting nutrition quackery.[11] He received multiple votes or at least one first-place vote in "10 outstanding skeptics of the 20th century by Skeptical Inquirer magazine.[12] In 1986, he was awarded honorary membership in the American Dietetic Association.[11] Barrett has been profiled in Biography Magazine (1998)[13] and in Time Magazine (2001).[14]

The magazine Spiked-online included Barrett in a survey of 134 persons[15] they termed "key thinkers in science, technology and medicine."

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Meh, no they should not be.

I'll call the shots on what goes into my body, for better or for worse.

If some epidemic breaks out, I promise not to get my none-immunized cooties on anyone.

 

[RonRules]

I have some not so nice experiences with vaccines in my family so that kind of statistics doesn't change my view.
especially list of "misconceptions"...
but, I'll keep checking out the facts and who is paying it, for sure.

I show you CLEAR statistics that indicate that MILLIONS of lives saved, yet you think your particular "not so nice experiences" warrant more weight?

About medical profits for vaccinations: The big problem is there is NO money in vaccines and most companies are trying to get out of the business. That's a fact.

Gotta go, be back tomorrow.

Meanwhile, please do a little more research and ask reputable physicians and researchers.

 

[Roxi]

This is a very complicated subject. My overall philosophy is that within a certain proportion, I should be allowed to do whatever I want as long as I don't affect others. Government is there to protect third parties, not to protect you or me.

However, if you don't get vaccinations, you risk spreading diseases to others. I might be wrong on that but I believe that is the case.

So, if the government was to force you to get a vaccination for the sole purpose of protecting your own health, I would be against that. However, if the purpose of the vaccination was to stop the spread of a disease, well then I might be in favor.

but you have it backwards.... if someone is worried about getting a disease, they can get vaccinated

if you are vaccinated me NOT being vaccinated will not affect you.

so if some people are vaccinated, and others are not, then it is the ones who are not who can worry about getting sick, not the people that choose to be vaccinated. forcing people to vaccinate themselves is disgusting, and making it a requirement to get into public schools makes me want to PUKE

 

[Agora]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...836&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

watch this video. not posh production, but very informative. Not paid by 5 posts above mentioned groups

 

[lucius]

<snip>

Besides, ask Ron Paul himself next time if he agrees with the benefits of vaccination !

"When we give government the power to make medical decisions for us, we, in essence, accept that the state owns our bodies." ~U.S. Representative Ron Paul

 

[synapz]

but you have it backwards.... if someone is worried about getting a disease, they can get vaccinated

if you are vaccinated me NOT being vaccinated will not affect you.

so if some people are vaccinated, and others are not, then it is the ones who are not who can worry about getting sick, not the people that choose to be vaccinated. forcing people to vaccinate themselves is disgusting, and making it a requirement to get into public schools makes me want to PUKE

Hey Roxic27, this is exactly the point my friend was trying to make: immunization is imperfect, and so people who do not get immunized risk infecting people who are immunized, despite their immunization. I'm looking for a non-pragmatic, philosophical/principled libertarian answer to this rhetoric.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Wyurm]

It was once thought that bleeding was a cure for diseases, as well as cutting a hole in the skull of someone suffering from a severe headache. Should those "cures" be forced on the general population as well? It is wrongly assumed that vaccines must be safe because they are considered mainstream and are assumed to have been properly researched, sadly, so was bleeding during its time.

 

[ELT]

I can see both sides of this issue. I believe people should not be forced to do anything they don't want to do, but there's the flip side too...

I feel immunizations should be further tested to make sure they are more safe for sure. There is a simularity to this and smoking in public. You might like to smoke. BUT, others around you don't want to inhale your cancerous second hand smoke. Same with not getting shots. You're walking around coughing out your flu germs everywhere, infecting others around you, when you could have had the shot. You're putting other's at risk against their will, because you were complacent.

As is anyway, schools require current immunizations to enter school, unless you fake shot records. So in a round-about way, they are already a requirement if you want an education.

 

[XNavyNuke]

As is anyway, schools require current immunizations to enter school, unless you fake shot records. So in a round-about way, they are already a requirement if you want an education.

Petty bureaucrats are not interested in immunity. Try getting a titer past one should you lose your shot record. They don't care that a titer shows adequate antibody levels, its not the same as an immunization. The system is set up to force individuals to place their own lives at risk of an adverse reaction so that a line can be filled in on a form.

No, vaccines should not be required.

XNN

 

[synapz]

No, vaccines should not be required.

XNN

But why? I agree with you, but why? Why is this not an okay reason to use force? If someone has a disease and hangs out near you, aren't they threatening your person?

 

[thuja]

the whole vaccine thing is a myth promoted by pharma. no medical treatment should be forced, especially illness-causing vaccines.

 

[thuja]

for some good reasons why, i go to www.nvic.org they are a reliable source for vaccine info. for certain.

 

[ItsTime]

So you are telling me that my child has a 1:150 chance of getting autism, but near zero for all those diseases? So no one in the US has those bad diseases? hmmm What should a parent do?

Here are the benefits of vaccination:

* Diphtheria
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 175,885
Cases in 2003: 1
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Hib (<5 yrs old)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 20,000 (estimate)
Cases in 2003: 259
Decrease in cases per year: 98.8%

* Measles
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 503,282
Cases in 2003: 56
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Mumps
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 152,209
Cases in 2003: 231
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Pertussis (whooping cough)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 147,271
Cases in 2003: 11,647
Decrease in cases per year: 92.1%

* Polio (paralytic)
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 16,316
Cases in 2003: 0
Decrease in cases per year: 100.0%

* Rubella
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 47,745
Cases in 2003: 7
Decrease in cases per year: 99.9%

* Smallpox
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 48,164
Cases in 2003: 0
Decrease in cases per year: 100.0%

* Tetanus
Cases per year (average) before vaccines: 1,314
Cases in 2003: 20
Decrease in cases per year: 98.5%

* Misconception #1: Because of better hygiene and sanitation, diseases had already begun to disappear before vaccines were introduced.
* Misconception #2: The majority of people who get the disease have been immunized.
* Misconception #3: There are hot lots of vaccine that have been associated with more adverse events and deaths than others. Parents should find the numbers of these lots and not allow their children to receive vaccines from them.
* Misconception #4: Vaccines cause many harmful side effects, and even death—and may cause long-term effects we don't even know about.
* Misconception #5: DTP vaccine causes sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
* Misconception #6: Vaccine-preventable diseases have been virtually eliminated from the United States, so there is no need for my child to be vaccinated.
* Misconception #7: Giving a child more than one vaccine at a time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.
* Misconception #8: There is no good reason to immunize against chickenpox (varicella) because it is a harmless disease.
* Misconception #9: Vaccines cause autism.
* Misconception #10: Hepatitis B vaccine causes chronic health problems, including multiple sclerosis.
* Misconception #11: Thimerosal causes autism: Chelation therapy can cure it.

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html


Besides, ask Ron Paul himself next time if he agrees with the benefits of vaccination !

 

[thuja]

you may, for example, get some of your questions answered at the myths and timelines section of that site, www.nvic.org

 

[synapz]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. Most of these, though, have been practical ones, i.e., "vaccines may hurt you!" That's fine and all, but what I am really interested in is the philosophy and principle behind not forcing people to get immunizations. Can anyone address this?

Thanks again!

 

[thuja]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. Most of these, though, have been practical ones, i.e., "vaccines may hurt you!" That's fine and all, but what I am really interested in is the philosophy and principle behind not forcing people to get immunizations. Can anyone address this?

Thanks again!

yes, of course, at the site i mentioned, www.nvic.org you will find tons of information, history, cases of this and that and so on, on which to base your decision.