Should i join the military?

[Pericles]

Philhelm has given very good advice. The attrition rate for SEAL training is very high, and if you have any doubt about your making it through that, you won't make it. If you did complete that training, you should plan on your entire 8 year commitment (no matter what a recruiter may tell you) as being deployed. All Special Forces people are constantly being deployed somewhere because there are not enough Special Forces types, and never will be as long as "nation building" or "low intensity" conflicts are underway. It is a real killer on any kind of family life or relationship.

Some people know that this is what they have to do in life, and will be in the combat arms. Figure that at most 15% of the Army gets shot at, 8% are in the combat units and do the bulk of the fighting. If you are not one of the trigger pullers, the experience in Iraq described above is more typical.

The typical company sees your military background as a negative. Favorite interview question: "You were in the Army a long time, have you ever had a real job?"

Looking forward, the experience could give you two big advantages in what I think is coming. After being a unit commander and having responsibility for the lives of your fellow citizens, any other situation which you may face in life becomes trivial. When it comes down to defending what is yours and those you care about, you will be well prepared with the skill set few others (as a percentage of the population) will have.

 

[oyarde]

Philhelm has given very good advice. The attrition rate for SEAL training is very high, and if you have any doubt about your making it through that, you won't make it. If you did complete that training, you should plan on your entire 8 year commitment (no matter what a recruiter may tell you) as being deployed. All Special Forces people are constantly being deployed somewhere because there are not enough Special Forces types, and never will be as long as "nation building" or "low intensity" conflicts are underway. It is a real killer on any kind of family life or relationship.

Some people know that this is what they have to do in life, and will be in the combat arms. Figure that at most 15% of the Army gets shot at, 8% are in the combat units and do the bulk of the fighting. If you are not one of the trigger pullers, the experience in Iraq described above is more typical.

The typical company sees your military background as a negative. Favorite interview question: "You were in the Army a long time, have you ever had a real job?"

Looking forward, the experience could give you two big advantages in what I think is coming. After being a unit commander and having responsibility for the lives of your fellow citizens, any other situation which you may face in life becomes trivial. When it comes down to defending what is yours and those you care about, you will be well prepared with the skill set few others (as a percentage of the population) will have.

Well said .

 

[Uriel999]

Hey man, I took the plunge and will be leaving in January for boot camp. You don't have to be a grunt to be in the military and fight if you don't to. You can do clerical work, electrician, mechanic, medical, etc getting all the benefits without any killing.

 

[oyarde]

Hey man, I took the plunge and will be leaving in January for boot camp. You don't have to be a grunt to be in the military and fight if you don't to. You can do clerical work, electrician, mechanic, medical, etc getting all the benefits without any killing.

Wish you well ! What mos did you pick ?

 

[Clairvoyant]

I'm 21 and i have been a waiter for the last 2-3 years. I tried college, but didn't like it. My girlfriend's dad is a former Navy SEAL and has connection to get me in. With that said im not a supporter of our foreign policy, but i see this a the best way for me to have career path down the road. I like shooting guns, im athletic, and i just don't see myself going anywhere down the road. I still educate myself, but i don't see anything i'd like to do for a living. At least with this on my resume i can get a better job in the future.
Now i have concerns down the road based on the mess our country is in. Will joining the seals be there? What could i do to protect/provide for myself when the crash happens if i did join?
My best friend is in the same situation as im in, but he sounds as if he is going to join. That puts me in a more favorable position of joining, but my GF would be crushed if i joined.

If anyone has advice i would love to hear it and feel free to ask me question

If you like killing innocent people or don't have the stomach for it but are willing to help others kill innocent people then ya you should join.

Yes our country is in a mess, and you would be joining up with the bastards that caused it.

 

[Clairvoyant]

Hey man, I took the plunge and will be leaving in January for boot camp. You don't have to be a grunt to be in the military and fight if you don't to. You can do clerical work, electrician, mechanic, medical, etc getting all the benefits without any killing.

Yeah so you're only assisting others who do the killing.

Hope that works out for your conscience.

 

[Philhelm]

If you like killing innocent people or don't have the stomach for it but are willing to help others kill innocent people then ya you should join.

Yes our country is in a mess, and you would be joining up with the bastards that caused it.

I don't mean to single you out, Clairvoyant, as there are plenty of similar comments in this thread, but as I have stated earlier, comments like this are not constructive, and I feel that it needs to be repeated. First, it isn't really helpful for a young man looking for advice about joining the military. It would seem intuitive that one who is considering joining the military wouldn't be very receptive toward this sort of rhetoric, so I doubt such comments really have an impact on the decision of whether or not to join.

Second, these aren't the sort of comments that will help Ron Paul supporters attempt to convince people to join the cause of liberty, and it certainly won't win any elections.

I can imagine how this will go on FOX News: "A group of Ron Paul supporters calling themselves the Liberty Forest, a reference to Thomas Jefferson's quote about using violence toward the government, have stated that our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are murderers, along with those who support them. Ron Paul is the quixotic GOP hopeful for the 2012 presidential primary, has long opposed the War on Terror because he believes that 9/11 was perpetrated by the U.S. government, and considered by political analysts to be a longshot, fringe contender. Here with us to discuss this issue is Sarah Palin."

 

[Acala]

Hmmm

I don't mean to single you out, Clairvoyant, as there are plenty of similar comments in this thread, but as I have stated earlier, comments like this are not constructive, and I feel that it needs to be repeated. First, it isn't really helpful for a young man looking for advice about joining the military. It would seem intuitive that one who is considering joining the military wouldn't be very receptive toward this sort of rhetoric, so I doubt such comments really have an impact on the decision of whether or not to join.

Second, these aren't the sort of comments that will help Ron Paul supporters attempt to convince people to join the cause of liberty, and it certainly won't win any elections.

I can imagine how this will go on FOX News: "A group of Ron Paul supporters calling themselves the Liberty Forest, a reference to Thomas Jefferson's quote about using violence toward the government, have stated that our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are murderers, along with those who support them. Ron Paul is the quixotic GOP hopeful for the 2012 presidential primary, has long opposed the War on Terror because he believes that 9/11 was perpetrated by the U.S. government, and considered by political analysts to be a longshot, fringe contender. Here with us to discuss this issue is Sarah Palin."

I see what you are saying.

On the other hand, don't you think it is a relevant factor for a young man to consider if many people he otherwise respects and agrees with rather strongly question the morality of what he is planning to do? It should. Because like it or not, many people feel that way even if they don't say it. And he should know that coming back into civilian life after being in the service isn't going to be all "thank you for your service". There is going to be some "murderer" thoughts as well, if not spoken comments.

 

[dannno]

I don't mean to single you out, Clairvoyant, as there are plenty of similar comments in this thread, but as I have stated earlier, comments like this are not constructive, and I feel that it needs to be repeated. First, it isn't really helpful for a young man looking for advice about joining the military. It would seem intuitive that one who is considering joining the military wouldn't be very receptive toward this sort of rhetoric, so I doubt such comments really have an impact on the decision of whether or not to join.

Second, these aren't the sort of comments that will help Ron Paul supporters attempt to convince people to join the cause of liberty, and it certainly won't win any elections.

I can imagine how this will go on FOX News: "A group of Ron Paul supporters calling themselves the Liberty Forest, a reference to Thomas Jefferson's quote about using violence toward the government, have stated that our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are murderers, along with those who support them. Ron Paul is the quixotic GOP hopeful for the 2012 presidential primary, has long opposed the War on Terror because he believes that 9/11 was perpetrated by the U.S. government, and considered by political analysts to be a longshot, fringe contender. Here with us to discuss this issue is Sarah Palin."

Sometimes it is better to think about things realistically rather than what is politically correct.

I would only join the military if I thought what I was doing was morally justified.

I'm not going to join the military for financial reasons, I would rather receive welfare and sit home and farm some vegetables, maybe take a couple under the table jobs than get money from the government to go kill innocent people and militarily occupy and scare the shit out of people on the other side of the world.

Besides, our military actions are making us less safe, that goes against the entire stated mission of being in the military.

 

[amy31416]

I didn't read the whole thread, but just as an FYI--a good friend's brother was a Navy Seal and an olympic-caliber swimmer. He came home in a box after allegedly drowning during a training exercise. Closed casket. And the military stayed during the entire burial to make sure it stayed that way.

No explanation. His items showed up at his mother's house before she even had a knock on her door telling her that her son was dead. My friend's mother was a Thai immigrant and didn't speak the language well enough to understand what was going on, nor could she afford an attorney.

Sounded rather like a Pat Tillman situation, without the fame.

 

[oyarde]

I didn't read the whole thread, but just as an FYI--a good friend's brother was a Navy Seal and an olympic-caliber swimmer. He came home in a box after allegedly drowning during a training exercise. Closed casket. And the military stayed during the entire burial to make sure it stayed that way.

No explanation. His items showed up at his mother's house before she even had a knock on her door telling her that her son was dead. My friend's mother was a Thai immigrant and didn't speak the language well enough to understand what was going on, nor could she afford an attorney.

Sounded rather like a Pat Tillman situation, without the fame.

They really sent home personal effects before notification ? Had no idea the Navy could be so disorganized ......

 

[Baptist]

Please do not join the military. You do not need college or the military to live a satisfied life. You can be satisfied by working construction making $15-$20somthing an hour and living a modest lifestyle.

My wife and I are both about to graduate from college. By society's standard, we can live successful lives. With our degrees (hers, really) we can live anywhere in the world. We could live anywhere in the states and make tons of money. But what we have discovered is that "success" is crap. If we could do it all over again, we would not go to college.

If I could go back in time I would learn a blue collar trade like electric, plumbing or construction and just work at the journeymen level while taking my sweet time to get a masters and maybe start my own company. Some of the people I admire the most are from my church back home. They are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and working construction-type jobs. They own less than ten acres and have a small home or a doublewide on it. The husband works 40-50 hours a week while the wife chills at home with the kids (or she works if she wants to, or if they have no kids). They do not live in fancy homes, drive fancy cars, and blow money on expensive items and vacations. But they spend TONS of quality time together every single week. They go on hikes, to the lake, ski, water ski, or 4-wheeling every week. They will never be rich or "successful" by society's standards, but they will always have a nice, clean home and food on the table. They stash a little bit of money away every month so they can retire a modest retirement when they are old.

My point in all of this is don't by into the "do what it takes to be successful" garbage. You think that you have to join college or the military to become successful. I disagree. Be the best waiter that you can be. Work your way into a pimpin restaurant so that you make some decent money. Or find a simple trade like I have explained. Getting jobs that society deems successful is not fulfilling. Marry your girlfriend. Rent a nice home or someday buy a lower-end home. Spend your time doing outdoor activities that don't cost money. Enjoy spending time with your woman and nature. This will be more fulfilling to you than slaving away at college or the military just so you can afford to buy more useless crap.

 

[amy31416]

They really sent home personal effects before notification ? Had no idea the Navy could be so disorganized ......

According to my friend, yeah. She seems to think they had it planned and just f'd this part up.

 

[oyarde]

According to my friend, yeah. She seems to think they had it planned and just f'd this part up.

That is quite a f up . Never heard of anything like that .

 

[amy31416]

That is quite a f up . Never heard of anything like that .

Me either. But she isn't the type to make up stories...so, it's second-hand info, for what it's worth--and translated from Thai.

Either way, he was an outstanding swimmer and ended up "drowning" and I witnessed the military essentially standing guard over a closed coffin. Don't know if that's common either.

 

[KCIndy]

Yeah so you're only assisting others who do the killing.

Hope that works out for your conscience.

Do you pay taxes?

 

[oyarde]

Me either. But she isn't the type to make up stories...so, it's second-hand info, for what it's worth--and translated from Thai.

Either way, he was an outstanding swimmer and ended up "drowning" and I witnessed the military essentially standing guard over a closed coffin. Don't know if that's common either.

For Seals , yes , not uncommon to have a large presence .

 

[oyarde]

Me either. But she isn't the type to make up stories...so, it's second-hand info, for what it's worth--and translated from Thai.

Either way, he was an outstanding swimmer and ended up "drowning" and I witnessed the military essentially standing guard over a closed coffin. Don't know if that's common either.

If he drowned , his appearance may not be too good .

 

[furface]

Do you pay taxes?

Not voluntarily.

 

[Elwar]

Here's a better solution.

By considering the military you are aware of the risks of going to war and possibly getting shot and killed. In exchange for this risk you would be expecting to be paid fairly decently.

The military would pay you slightly more if you were sent off to war.

But...if you are a contractor in a war zone you get paid a shit load. Basically, take the salary of something you would do here in the US and multiply it by 3-4.

Get a basic skill...trucking, phone tower repair, whichever. Then check out sites like overseasjobs.com or clearancejobs.com (you need to be able to get a clearance) and look for something in Iraq or Afghanistan.

You'll make more than what a soldier makes, you won't be the main target of the enemy and you don't have to put up with as much crap, like you do in the military.

I'm speaking from experience. I did a year in Iraq and made a lot. I felt bad for our soldiers who were there right beside me who had to defend me who were getting paid peanuts compared to me. The military needs to be paid more if they're sent to war, plain and simple. But we shouldn't hardly ever be sent to war. It should be so rare that when we do send them to fight, they and their families get paid like knights of the old days.