Serious Slave Reparations Discussion Only

[RonPaulNewbee]

Trying to think what can be done to further the cause of the constitutional society that Ron has popularized, I realized we need to attack on some new fronts. For many years I did not believe in reparations (you know what I'm talking about) because of the Libertarian principle that the government should not take one cent from me without either my willingness or by threat of gunpoint.

Well, 700 Billion made me change my mind. We are slaves. We are wage slaves (some might argue "the government's chattel slaves"). Our only out is to feign illness and get on welfare. Well, I'm tired of this shit! These games: are we sovereign? Are we Citizens? Enough!

While I am an old white guy, I have come to believe that reparations are in order. I know, I know, I know ... there is no way to identify slave families and no way to identify slave-holder families. That's not the point. We Americans (of all colors, North and South) have benefited from slavery and the descendants of slavery have been slighted. While I'm Irish, it is possible that my ancestors were subjected to slavery but was the Black race that was specifically subjected to disenfranchisement in the Constitution for the United States of America.

The 14th Amendment (which was never legally ratified) created a new class of citizen and removed sovereignty from the vernacular of citizen rights. This was done to replace the Black slave class that had been eliminated by the 13 Amendment. As Whites, we should be on the side of our former Black slaves in solidarity! The government has put us on equal ground, as slaves, not raised up anybody!

Here's my proposal, and it is one I hope Ron Paul (and Chuck Baldwin) will take a look at as a creative solution differing from an absolutist stand:

• The 14th Amendment has to go. Or it needs to be rewritten to retain equal rights, due process, all the good things in it. But take away the divisive language aimed at punishing the Confederates.
  
• It needs to give Natural Born Citizenship to all free men and women here and ... well I believe Ron Paul has a solution to this one and he's much better qualified to address it.
  
• The point is the Constitution needs one class of People, first-class Citizens under the jurisdiction of Article 3. State's rights returned. Right of Secession explicitly recognized. Return of Common Law, so resolution of controversies can have flexibility.
  
• Abolish the IRS, Federal Reserve, and Board of Education with the exception that all forms of Law are taught from the 1st Grade so that the People can protect themselves from another arising Leviathan government.

I've been studying the Civil War (War Between the States) and there is too much Union propaganda (promoting big government) that is being taught in our public schools as fact, so much that we don't know the truth about what that (and each subsequent) war really cost us. The debt we have stems from that war! Isn't it time we come off of Martial Law? Free the Slaves (that is, you and me)? And return us to a Constitutional society more intent on providing for the common "defense" and the general welfare ... you know, THE GOOD LIFE as intend by the original intent of the Constitution! The government needs to get out of the way of the hard workers to give them back the fruit of their labors. This, I've realized, is inextricably linked to giving back to the families of slaves. However, we can't solve every problem or take on the karma for everything that happened to slaves. We can however reimburse each African-American living in the Civil War-era states of the U.S. $30,000. It's not much, but it is enough for an education, to start a business, invest or take a vacation. I don't mean to be cynical but I see us bailing out Wall Street with possibly 1 Trillion dollars while doing nothing for the 44% of Americans which live in unacceptable financial circumstances ... well, it's not my idea of America. The descendants of chattel slaves deserve the benefit of their labor for Citizens who used them for 200 years. To ignore the damage they've suffered as a result of government neglect, abuse, and outright discrimination only prolongs the other races of American Citizen getting their rights back. We are in this together.

I would welcome any serious reply to this proposed solution. Before my next post, I'll work on how much this would cost taxpayers, before the federal tax system is ended, and we are once again called Citizens and not Taxpayers.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Limiting the thread to serious slaves may crimp the discussions somewhat.<IMHO>

 

[yongrel]

Limiting the thread to serious slaves may crimp the discussions somewhat.<IMHO>

 

[Truth Warrior]

What does Star Trek have to do with it? "Where's your glasses?"

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

uhh

uhhhh... reparations are bad.....m'kay

 

[Kotin]

um there is no such thing as a serious discussion about reparations.


because the whole concept is utter lunacy.. I dont like redistribution of wealth even it has a "good" reason.

 

[Truth Warrior]

I never owned any slaves. Oops, "seriously".

 

[RonPaulNewbee]

No but you benefited from them. Just like you benefit from National Socialized Govt! Can I get some serious responses please or has this place utterly fallen apart? Dominionist? Give me a break and say something intelligent other than um, no, bad. Duh.

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

serious

o.k. a serious questions about this... How in the world would you ever be able to verify who has ancestors that were enslaved? Can you imagine how much it would cost the taxpayer to hire professionals qualified to get this information? Do you not think that it would just lead to a office of reparation administration which would further bloat our budget? If we were handing out $30,000 to descendents of slaves than can you imagine how many of these descendents would come out of the woodwork? What about indentured servants? What about Asians who built the railroads and suffered? If you give in to one group who suffered some type of hardship than where would it end?

I am of Scottish and Confederate ancestry. I could raise a stink about that and have two Governments owing me money. This would never end and would only destroy our economy even faster.

 

[Sandra]

No but you benefited from them. Just like you benefit from National Socialized Govt! Can I get some serious responses please or has this place utterly fallen apart? Dominionist? Give me a break and say something intelligent other than um, no, bad. Duh.

the same one's that benefitted from them may also be descended from them. Pointless discussion in Creole Country.

 

[Truth Warrior]

No but you benefited from them. Just like you benefit from National Socialized Govt! Can I get some serious responses please or has this place utterly fallen apart? Dominionist? Give me a break and say something intelligent other than um, no, bad. Duh.

Well, they got Liberia, what else are they owed? How about North Dakota?

 

[RonPaulNewbee]

Thanks for some serious replies finally. I'm of Irish and Confederate ancestry. Irish were infamously slaves too. You are right, Scottish slaves (I imagine wage slaves) built the White House and could want reparations too.

It comes down to this principle, and not the particulars: After the Civil War (so-called), we were all enslaved by Big Government. My proposal eliminates Big Government, gives a one-time pay-off of anyone Black living in the original 32 States (not including NV or WV which became states during the war) and doesn't pretend to restore them completely or pay back all of their relatives generation upon generation who worked as chattel slaves for White masters. It doesn't incriminate anybody, any race, or pretend to equalize anything. It is meant to end slavery TODAY. Read all the other things on the wish list: the right to secession, states rights returned.

We have to reverse what Honest Abe Lincoln did and 30,000 bucks to every Black person in the East and Midwest is trifling compared to this 1 Trillion dollar bailout of rich fucks. I'm guestimating that it would cost only 90,000,000 AND it would kill socialism. That's about 1/10th of nationalizing the financial sector. I'm about 1/2 way calculating this, I'll be right back.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Does this mean we get a refund of the "Great Society", "War on Poverty", payments received by the slave heirs, since the 60s?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Does this mean we get a refund of the "Great Society", "War on Poverty", payments received by the slave heirs, since the 60s?

how about the "war on drugs", "war on crime", and "war on terror"?

 

[dsentell]

Okay, the government has decided to give our money away. Everyone start lining up . . .

Give us a break, haven't you heard -- THE COUNTRY IS BROKE!!!!

 

[RonPaulNewbee]

The Great Society obviously didn't mean the rich society! We should be rich in this land, no equivocation! The Pursuit of Happiness!

I can't get into all those wars, but there is no denying that the single issue recognized as divisive in our country, and the one single issue neglected by our Founders is slavery based on race. I'm obviously against slavery, but I believe there is a reason whites enslaved blacks that is from the dawn of history. But we can't deny it was a wrong that our (white) families did to theirs. The point is the result is that the entire country believes our civil war (that cost us about 700,000 American lives and the destruction of the South) was just about slavery and it was about protecting states rights. Yes the secession came from the need to protect the institution of slavery to preserve political balance in Washington (the 3/5ths Clause) but that point is lost on just about everyone. The 3/5s Clause sidestepped the manumission issue altogether and made men property. For that act by our forefathers, we have to "man-up" and acknowledge what wrong was done and fix what we can of it. No it won't be much. But while Lincoln was alive, Congress granted compensated emancipation to slaves in Washington D.C. Why that offer was not extended to the "slave states" I don't know. Anybody? But Lincoln chose instead to invest in creating Big Government and centralizing power at gunpoint rather than pay-off slave holders and settle the issue of slavery right there. The result was all those lives lost, federal taxation, and the loss of states rights (and thereby the right of individual sovereignty).

***Here's the particulars: My plan isolates the 35 states that were involved in the beginning of the Civil War (War Between the States). My figure of $30,000 is today's equivalent of what Congress paid for compensated emancipation to slave holders in the District of Columbia. I've estimated that in 2006 there were 35,315,000 black people living in those 35 states (I did include WV because it simply split from VA). If each black person received $30,000.00 from the Federal Government as compensation for the wrong it did to them, the total would be about $106 Billion in 2006 dollars. That is about 1/10th of this Fat Cat Bailout. Much of that would be invested and would grow the economy and create liquidity and so in essence it would pay for itself.

It would go far toward righting a wrong ... a wrong that is impossible to properly calculate as to who has already benefited, who really had slave ancestors, and so forth, but it goes farther than anything so far to restore to Black people their rightful position as sovereign Citizens equal in law and humanity with every other race whether they believe they were once superior or not. And fixing the 14th Amendment and properly ratifying it would eliminate the second-class citizen and it's shadow legal jurisdiction.

To me this vision of racial harmony and respect is far preferable to giving rich fucks a trillion bucks. It may not be easy to swallow for whites, but it would be worth it to restore a broken faith and a broken Constitution that nobody is following now anyway. And with a Black president, there might never be another time to do it. I voted for Ron Paul, but he didn't win. If our Congress could see the wisdom of racial harmony (at a cheap price, relatively speaking, assuming the Congressional Black Caucus would event accept as little as $30k/person) and a restoring of the original intent of the Constitution, I believe they would have a willing President to sign it into law.

 

[constituent]

my ancestors were victims of the greatest genocide in human history (no, not the holocaust)...

where's my mutha-f*n money?

 

[RonPaulNewbee]

Genocide is a different issue. It is a very serious one and I'm not going to tie it to this, although it is certainly something figure out. How do you repay? I'm open for suggestions. I'm part Cherokee so this is an important topic. Native Americans, the ones that were left after the killing, have access to Reservations and sovereignty. American citizens don't. I am simply tying Black slaves to the Constitution that disenfranchised them and White sovereign Citizens who were disenfranchised by the Civil War(sp) to the 14th Amendment and noting how we all became slaves to Big Government/Big Business. I hope that someone smarter than me can chime in and maybe point to the hypocrisy of a Wall Street Bail-Out in the face of all I've presented.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Bring on all of the pre 13th Amendment slaves held, I'll "reparate" them.

 

[constituent]

Native Americans, the ones that were left after the killing, have access to Reservations and sovereignty.

That's not correct.

Some Native Americans have access to reservations and sovereignty.

Plus, I don't want any reparations, nor money. I want the government dissolved.