Semi-Official 11/22 CNN Foreign Policy Debate Thread

[acptulsa]

'I would be very careful about protecting the rule of law. It will be a sacrifice that you'll be sorry for.'--Ron Paul

 

[constitutionstory]

Santorum, "we are at war"

last time a threat like this, the Civil War, present domestic threat

(skipped WW2 and Japanese internment camps)

Blitzer- religious profiling? ethnic profiling?

Santorum- the Muslims, younger males, not exclusively, these are the things you profile

Paul- "very careless use of words"

"terrorists? no, they're suspects"

Paul does not remember voting for a declaration of war, says terror is a tactic and not a person or people.

"anybody associated with organizations" wording change for Al-Qaeda, and Taliban defintions, now American citizens "vulnerable to assassination"

 

[Tinnuhana]

So, is it going well so far? Has Ron been booed yet?

 

[acptulsa]

Cain has a plan for domestic security, I guess. He seems to want the experts over at the CIA to do something better, but we don't know what...

 

[acptulsa]

Huntsman wants term limits, and says Pakistan ought to keep us up at night. Guess that's what he means about America's 'light shining'.

 

[constitutionstory]

Huntsman answering Frederick Kagan of American Enterprise Institute on drone campaign in Pakistan,

Huntsman says military, ISI, President, madrassa movement, over 100 nuclears, trouble on the border

an expanded drone program would serve "our national interest"

don't need to nation build in Afghanistan

now onto Bachmann, should Pakistan get aid?

 

[acptulsa]

Bachmann wants to give money to Pakistan lest the Chinese buy more influence there than we do. She wants to do just what Obama is doing, but do it completely more effectively.

 

[acptulsa]

Perry says if they don't do what we say, we cut off the money. Bachmann calls that naive, basically says our money is preventing Pakistan from selling nuclear weapons to Al-Qaida.

 

[constitutionstory]

Bachmann, primarily intelligence money to Pakistan

"at this point I would continue that aid"

"Obama policy of keeping your fingers crossed is not working

now Perry, if you are not going to be an ally of the US do not expect a dime of our citizen's money to be coming into your country

now if we want to engage (our companies), build these countries- but not just "a check" to them

Bachmann, have to maintain an American presence, we have to have our interest, which is nat'l security, represented. and perry is highly naive, she says.

Perry, not blank checks, Afghanistan/India working into it, we need a trade zone

 

[acptulsa]

Romney--'We can't just write off a major part of the world... We want to draw them toward modernity.' Doesn't think Pakistan is up to the twentieth century. Thinks we should spend (more?) to do a better job of selling them on Westernism.

 

[specsaregood]

Is romney arguing that we need to get more troops killed because we already had troops killed?

 

[acptulsa]

Huntsman: The American people are very frustrated that we don't know what the endpoint in Afghanistan is.

Romney quotes commanders on the ground--surge troops out in a year and all in three years. Gains in peril but doesn't say what those gains are. Uses the 'cut and run' phrase.

Is romney arguing that we need to get more troops killed because we already had troops killed?

If there was any more justification in there I didn't hear it.

Edit: Oh, there it was. He actually thinks we're about to rid the Afghanis of the Taliban.

 

[constitutionstory]

Romney: what we did with Indonesia and the 1960s, modernity, "new leadership"

and 12% American approval in Pakistan, need opportunities of the West and freedom for these people

Huntsman: honest conversation about sacrifices, free 2004 elections, ran taliban out of Kabul, achieved important goals, but we have 100,000 troops nation building in Afghanistan. we need drone presence. we have not made an endpoint...

Romney- are you having them, all 100,000 drawing out of Afghanistan?

Huntsman, 10,000-15,000 presence in Afghanistan. counter-terrorism will be in front of us as far as I can see in the 21st century.

Romney- "I stand with the commanders in this regard" not time for "America to cut and run"
also the investment of blood and treasure.

Huntsman- people listened to the generals in 1967, I'm going to listen to a lot of different voices

Romney- listen and then make your decision

(this was the longest 2 person back and forth... very long)

Gingrich's turn now

 

[phill4paul]

They are definately going after Ron. relish it. It means top-tier!

 

[phill4paul]

Rebuttal DAMNIT!

 

[paulpwns]

Paul: Skipped on Pakistan

 

[acptulsa]

Gingrich feels national sovereignty is a completely archaic concept. Wherever and whenever we want to chase terrorists, all we have to do is ask the nation where they are to kill them, and if they don't we have a right to march right in.

Santorum--'I agree with Ron Paul. Terrorism is not an enemy. Terrorism is a tactic.' Yet he wants to win this thing--somehow (wants to defeat terrorism worldwide, but doesn't say how that's done other than 'not playing politics' with it)...

 

[constitutionstory]

Santorum "I agree with Ron Paul"

says we're not at war with terror, a tactic, but radical Islam.

Most memorable quote so far this debate, even better than "I agree with Ron Paul" is the major lack of truthiness in Wolf Blitzer saying we will soon hear from

"Congressman Cain"

I mean, he was a Governor... of the Federal Reserve. Not an elected position, as being a Congressman is.

I think this should be called out, and brought to attention. How do you call a major presidential candidate who has not been elected to a public office a "Congressman"?

 

[TomtheTinker]

These guys make our points for us. 12% approval rating billions and billions spent... Thousands dead..this is our point.

 

[constitutionstory]

"Why does Israel need our help? We need to get out of their way?"

"they want to bomb something, that's their business"

"quite capable of taking care of themselves"

Egypt- "we were buying friendship"

"willing to go to war without declaration by Congress"