Scott Adams and Rasmussen's "It's okay to be white" poll

[Krugminator2]

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Now, the top 1% makes most of the freaking money. So even paying a lower rate (and they pay a lower rate) they end up putting in more actual dollars. .

The US has the most steeply progressive income tax system in the Western world. Top income earners not only pay an unfairly disproportionate amount of income taxes but pay a disproportionate amount and higher rate even when you factor in payroll taxes which affect lower income earners the most (though they shouldn't be included because they are forced savings people get back) and when you factor in the lower rate on capital gains and dividends.

The reason people think "the rich" pay a lower rate is by citing sources that count unrealized capital gains as if they are income. That's it. No tax tricks. No loop holes. No secret offshore accounts. Just simply acting as if having an ownership stake in a business that increases in value over time is income.

Hardly right wing sources saying the same thing.

"America's Taxes are the Most Progressive in the World" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/

U.S. Taxes Really Are Unusually Progressive https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...axes-really-are-unusually-progressive/252917/

Income taxes in America are more progressive than in other rich countries--according to an authoritiative official study which, to my knowledge, has not been contradicted. The OECD's report "Growing Unequal", on poverty and inequality in industrial countries, includes a table that provides two measures of income tax progressivity in 2005. This is evidently the source of de Rugy's numbers. Here they are in an excel file. According to one measure, America's income taxes were the most progressive of the 24 countries in the sample, except for Ireland. According to the other, they were the most progressive full stop. (A more recent OECD report, "Divided We Stand", uses different data, a smaller sample of countries and a different measure of progressivity: the results are similar.)
Before you ask, this ranking takes account of employee-side payroll tax as well as the federal income tax.

According to the OECD, rich Americans bear a bigger share of the tax burden because they earn a bigger share of the income and because the US income tax system is more progressive.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/federal-taxes-are-very-progressive

The individual income tax boosts progressivity the most with effective rates rising from -4.8 percent for the lowest quintile to 25.3 percent for the top 1 percent.

There’s no question that we have a progressive federal tax system, thanks mostly to the individual income tax.

 

[CaptUSA]

The US has the most steeply progressive income tax system in the Western world. Top income earners not only pay an unfairly disproportionate amount of income taxes but pay a disproportionate amount and higher rate....

Yeah, let's forget about the inflation tax altogether, then??? You know, the real way the US collects most of its taxes now.

Your charts would only work if you only count tax "revenues" instead of looking at the full picture. SPENDING is the tax on the American people... Only a small portion of that is collected in direct taxation. With inflation, the value of the assets of the wealthy increase, meanwhile, the cost of good and services relative to the labor of the lower classes goes up.

 

[Krugminator2]

Yeah, let's forget about the inflation tax altogether, then??? You know, the real way the US collects most of its taxes now.

Your charts would only work if you only count tax "revenues" instead of looking at the full picture. SPENDING is the tax on the American people... Only a small portion of that is collected in direct taxation. With inflation, the value of the assets of the wealthy increase, meanwhile, the cost of good and services relative to the labor of the lower classes goes up.

Inflation is 6% not 30%. The post I responded to was about who pays tax revenues. I agree spending is the measure of total tax but not sure how it changes anything. Direct taxation is how most spending is paid for. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/us-federal-spending-versus-revenue-2021/

Stocks have their worst performance during high inflation and have negative returns when inflation is over 10% Best performance during low inflation. Inflation is bad for everyone.

 

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[jmdrake]

The US has the most steeply progressive income tax system in the Western world. Top income earners not only pay an unfairly disproportionate amount of income taxes but pay a disproportionate amount and higher rate even when you factor in payroll taxes which affect lower income earners the most (though they shouldn't be included because they are forced savings people get back) and when you factor in the lower rate on capital gains and dividends.

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary-talk-taxes

In a week when taxes and tax returns have dominated the headlines, billionaire investor Warren Buffett jumped back into the political debate and showed his returns exclusively to ABC News' Bianna Golodryga, adding, "I have never had it so good. … What has happened in recent years, we were told a rising tide would lift all boats, but the rising tide has lifted all yachts."

Buffett's secretary since 1993, Debbie Bosanek, sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America.

Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent.

"I just feel like an average citizen. I represent the average citizen who needs a voice," said Bosanek. "Everybody in our office is paying a higher tax rate than Warren."​

The reason people think "the rich" pay a lower rate is by citing sources that count unrealized capital gains as if they are income. That's it. No tax tricks. No loop holes. No secret offshore accounts. Just simply acting as if having an ownership stake in a business that increases in value over time is income.

"Rich" people who pay higher tax rates than Donald Trump and Warren Buffet are stupid.

 

[Krugminator2]

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary-talk-taxes

In a week when taxes and tax returns have dominated the headlines, billionaire investor Warren Buffett jumped back into the political debate and showed his returns exclusively to ABC News' Bianna Golodryga, adding, "I have never had it so good. … What has happened in recent years, we were told a rising tide would lift all boats, but the rising tide has lifted all yachts."

Buffett's secretary since 1993, Debbie Bosanek, sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America.

Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent.

"I just feel like an average citizen. I represent the average citizen who needs a voice," said Bosanek. "Everybody in our office is paying a higher tax rate than Warren."​

"Rich" people who pay higher tax rates than Donald Trump and Warren Buffet are stupid.

You didn't refute anything I said. You gave a random ape brained anecdote. When you add up all taxes, the top 1% of wage earners pays a much higher rate than any other group. That is a fact.

The median income earner pays an average rate of around 13%, when you include all federal taxes. The top 1% earner pays 33%.

I care about facts. I don't care about random anecdotes. I don't care what Robert Kiyosaki has to say on any topic. He's a charlatan. I don't care what Warren Buffett has to say. He pays most of income as capital gains. That is not representative of the typical person who makes $550k or more. Rich people pay all the taxes. They are getting hosed. The country needs a reverse populist as president.

 

[jmdrake]

You didn't refute anything I said. You gave a random ape brained anecdote. When you add up all taxes, the top 1% of wage earners pays a much higher rate than any other group.

Not as a percentage of their wealth.

That is a fact. Not an opinion. I don't care about what Warren Buffett or random billionaires pays. I am 100% certain what I am saying is correct. I could keep linking to sources all day long. Most top 1% wage earners pay the full sticker price.

No. You're not. But I have to wonder why the hell do you even care? You're the one getting squeezed at the bottom. Stockholm syndrome much?

I care about facts. I don't care about random anecdotes. I don't care what Robert Kiyosaki has to say on any topic. He's a charlatan.

Funny but I didn't link to Robert Kiyosaki in the post you responded to. I did link to Donald J. Trump. I agree Trump is a charlatan, but I also believe he was telling the truth when he said he doesn't pay taxes because he's smart.

 

[Krugminator2]

Not as a percentage of their wealth.






Funny but I didn't link to Robert Kiyosaki in the post you responded to. I did link to Donald J. Trump. I agree Trump is a charlatan, but I also believe he was telling the truth when he said he doesn't pay taxes because he's smart.

As income. Appreciation in assets is not income.

 

[jmdrake]

As income. Appreciation in assets is not income.

And that's the beauty of their scheme. Call whatever your making not income. Put it in a foundation and travel around the world on private jets and lecture people about carbon footprints but it's not "income." Buy 25 billion in vaccine stock, dump the stock when it reaches 250 billion, put the profits in the private foundation that you control, and avoid the taxes because it's not "income." And the stupid sheep at the bottom fall for your scheme. They think working for a living makes them less worthy than you. "Labor" is a dirty word. Appreciation and depreciation are such lovely words. That's the philosophy, by the way, of Robert Kiyosaki whom who wrongly derided as a "charlatan" because he tells the truth that the uber rich don't want the little people to know.

Actually I am the one who pays the 41% effective rate when you include state taxes. But I would care regardless out of principle.

Are you part of the top 1%? If so where were you when Ron Paul needed you? If not then what are you babbling about?

 

[CaptUSA]

As income. Appreciation in assets is not income.

But you see, there's the flaw in your little scheme. The rich, who have assets, have a shield from inflation. Prices go up, but so do the value of their assets. The lower classes who have fewer assets have to pay more for their goods and services. In addition, they already spend a larger share of their wealth on goods and services.

There is nothing more regressive than the inflation tax. Which is why the rich allow congress to operate without a balanced budget. They are shielded from the taxation.

Focusing solely on "income" misses the point. The rich have myriad ways to hide income.