Sanctions Force India to Pay in Gold for Iran Oil, China May Follow 1/24/12

[cmm2k5]

Barrex, I've been trying to keep up on this stuff, sadly, only since around 2009. But the fact the mainstream media in this country doesn't talk about it AT ALL or even mention it. I believe they don't want to "fear-monger" the public with it because the public would be very pissed off. They fear-monger terrorism and pushing a foreign agenda on false threats and claims to keep all of this from the american public (at least that's my theory on the whole situation, yeah its dabbling with conspiracy but its very plausible and rational) Knowing that american troops are dying to protect our economy I believe would upset a lot military families and service men and women as well. The public would have an outcry and would demand change. I've told a lot of people in this day of age, the military men and women aren't technically fighting to protect our freedoms but rather more of our ways of life we currently live in the grand scheme of things. But yes, its a huge shame most people in the states don't know of this, they are too concerned about who's going to win american idol or what the Kardashians are doing etc.

 

[Demigod]

The irony is that people around the world would be perfectly happy to use dollars forever, if we didn't constantly devalue them and use our military and petrodollar hegemony to bully other countries around. (We'd have to export goods in order to continually buy oil without devaluing the dollar though.) Either the establishment goons are stupid, or they indeed have the ulterior motives many of us believe they have (i.e. one world government).

No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

 

[Demigod]

Great post. Even I haven't fully recognized the importance of this...
I always figured that in the event of a currency collapse, the supply chain will be disrupted for a couple weeks until people get their asses in gear and work out an alternate medium of exchange (gold, silver, bullets, cigarettes, toilet paper...whatever), but grocery stores would be refilled soon after. However, I routinely forget about our dependence on foreign oil: Our entire supply chain and distribution of goods is extremely nonlocal, so shipping goods in trucks is highly dependent on our ability to buy large amounts of fuel internationally. A dollar collapse would totally screw us here. Now that you and the others in this thread have connected the dots for me, I'm honestly much more scared right now of a collapse than I've been in the past...we're in trouble.

The problem is the products in those stores are mostly foreign made.When the currency hyper inflates no one is going to want to sell anything to the USA.Now that problem usually trough history has sorted out in 1-3 years.But the USA has been kicking the can down the road for decades so you may prepare your self's for 1 trillion dollar bills

 

[cmm2k5]

No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

I've been keeping a close eye on the Euro on my windows 7 desktop. All i'm waiting for is the Euro to keep creeping up to match the dollar in currency exchange.

Dollar: 1.00
Euro: .767

Just think, about a year or so ago it was almost .570. Its slowly dropping...

 

[everlasticity]

i dont see it in such stark terms. an indo/china -us war is simply out of question even for the most seasoned entrenched neocons.

Sure, I don't think so either. But if we were able to get this information reported to the masses who tow the neocon line, then it would seriously conflict with what they perceive to be the US handle on the situation. Really, from what it sounds like to me, it was anticipated that China and India would find alternative ways to deal the Iranian embargo, ie. Yen and Rupi, and this would be acceptable to the US. It also seems to me that this goes lock step with Gingrich's acceptance of the gold standard. So I am guessing, that what is going on is a pretense to wean off US dollar as the reserve currency. Whether threatening to wage war against Iran is just a cover, and really there will be no war, I don't go that far. But as I understand it, the international community has been exploring alternatives to the US dollar for sometime.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

Ya I was going to say the same thing. However, the US dollar being propped up with petrodollars, shows just how unstable it really is as well. Imagine if oil was exchanged in petroeuro. Talk about a major recovery of the euro.

 

[goliberty78]

Old news.

Edit:
WOW I just read rest of the comments.
I am surprised that you guys in U.S.A. are so surprised that this is happening. In the rest of the world this is old news. Russia and China are already doing it in all of their bilateral trade. Japan now joined too. In EU there is for years plan to do that too.India and Iran are not exceptions. That explains a lot of my questions: why people and politicians in U.S:A dont do something about it.... Now I got the answer "you dont know".

Second edit:
Well Ron Paul knows it....

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view

 

[Mini-Me]

No people around the world would not be perfectly happy to use the dollar cause I can talk about Europe,people here have known for this thing for decades.We know that this is the way the USA funds the war machine and rarely anyone saves money in dollars.

Of course. You're do realize you're listing the same reasons that I did why the rest of the world isn't happy using dollars though, right?

But i don't know why most here speak about the Euro like it is going to hang around for much longer .The EU will dissolve in a matter of years.

I agree. Europe is pretty much a mirror image of the US in terms of unproductivity. They support their huge social welfare systems with central banking shenanigans and rely on just a few relatively productive countries (e.g. Germany) to keep them afloat, so they're also going to be in for a rude awakening...

The problem is the products in those stores are mostly foreign made.When the currency hyper inflates no one is going to want to sell anything to the USA.Now that problem usually trough history has sorted out in 1-3 years.But the USA has been kicking the can down the road for decades so you may prepare your self's for 1 trillion dollar bills

You're right about most of our products being foreign-made; this is the biggest impediment to actually engaging in legitimate trade for oil. We don't exactly have a lot to offer (although I do hear we produce a lot of capital goods here, so that's helpful...but I'm sure a lot of that is military-industrial complex stuff too). However, the US is self-sufficient in terms of food, which is the most important resource for at least keeping people alive in the meantime. That's the good news. The bad news is that we won't have any means to obtain fuel to transport this food across the country, which we need to do to survive, since we don't grow locally anymore for the most part.

 

[everlasticity]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are.

I have been asking this question regarding RT.com (Russian TV, I think). Russians are not allowed to criticize their own government, not to the extent that we can. But they sure do a helluva good job criticizing us. I am not sure if things have changed in Russia recently, I know there have been a lot more dissidents. But under Putin, a few years ago, I understood this to be the case that there wasn't much criticism of government in the press.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica

 

[kojirodensetsu]

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica

Does RT have a bias like MSNBC and Fox News? Or are they pretty legit? Heard about RT on a different forum. Curious about it.

 

[Demigod]

You're right about most of our products being foreign-made; this is the biggest impediment to actually engaging in legitimate trade for oil. We don't exactly have a lot to offer (although I do hear we produce a lot of capital goods here, so that's helpful...but I'm sure a lot of that is military-industrial complex stuff too). However, the US is self-sufficient in terms of food, which is the most important resource for at least keeping people alive in the meantime...our real problem is going to be finding fuel to transport this food across the country, since we don't grow locally anymore for the most part.

Yes food but most of your food is made by corporations now.If the dollar just inflates those corporations would collapse.Also most of the agriculture in the USA is heavily depended on oil due to high mechanization.There has never been a hunger because the people could not produce food or the land was bad, but because of political and economical factors.

The starvation in Ukraine ( the grain barn of europe ) was started cause of political stupidity.
The hunger in Germany after world war 1 was because of hyper inflation ( and that was in a time when almost all food was produced by small farmers)

And the most important factor by me for the USA is "being spoiled".Your social security check is 5 times the wage for a full time job in Asia,South America and Eastern Europe.What you consider poverty is not exactly being poor.You go into a meltdown when there is not another X-box on black Friday (I think it was called like that ) so what do you think will happen when the stores start getting half empty,the SS check does not come,gas is x10,you need 2 trillion dollars to buy bread and EVERYONE IS ARMED.And then you also have a few million immigrants to include into the problem.

See during the great depression the USA made almost everything it spent, people were more tough and less dependent on government assistance today it is a very different society.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Does RT have a bias like MSNBC and Fox News? Or are they pretty legit? Heard about RT on a different forum. Curious about it.

I guess the only bias they have is against the MSM. They of course are a Russian based news outlet so they are apposed to American Interventionism which is why they are very supportive of a non-status quo candidate like Ron Paul. So in a sense I guess you could say that that is a bias.

 

[Victor]

Al Jazeera is a fairly unbiased news channel as well. http://www.aljazeera.com

Then independant news organisations like The Real News - http://therealnews.com/t2/

Then believe it or not we have pretty good news from our two main Swedish TV channels. Although sometimes they rely on foreign news oulets i.e propaganda.

Furthermore, critical thinking & awareness of propaganda is thought in school. At least when I attended it back in the 90's.

Cocerning Libya, they wanted to introduce a new african currency backed by gold.

 

[Demigod]

I believe Barrex is from Croatia. There is a news outlet from Russia called RT. It reports alternative points of view when compared to US MSM. Here is a live feed of their broadcasts......... http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/

They also have a Youtube channel....... http://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica

RT only airs in America not in Europe.Here the media is bought by the EU and USA and just says the same things every day.

"The EU is great the EU is glorious we are barbarians we must go join the EU to become glorious " but on the other hand unlike in the USA where you take conspiracy theorists like crazy here it is the national past time.We see conspiracy's in everything and rarely take something for granted.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

RT only airs in America not in Europe.Here the media is bought by the EU and USA and just says the same things every day.

"The EU is great the EU is glorious we are barbarians we must go join the EU to become glorious " but on the other hand unlike in the USA where you take conspiracy theorists like crazy here it is the national past time.We see conspiracy's in everything and rarely take something for granted.

Ya, I have a few buddies from the UK here in Taiwan. They often say more or less the same thing. You should here some of what we discuss at times. It's epic.

 

[Barrex]

I've often wondered how citizens of other countries viewed us, and if they are privy to more info than we are. I'm curious if you'd be willing to share media sources you frequent. I'm always looking for an outsider's view

and @cmm2k5

I dont have to dig for these information. News about Russia,China and Japan trading in their own currencies is well known fact in my country. It was in every news and on every media (TV, radio, newspapers, our web pages etc.). Our government or corporations are not that strong to be able to hide information from people. They tried few times and there is always some smart-ass who leaks information (in Croatia this happens all the time and it is not such big of a deal...especially if it is in public interest) or some citizen finds out there is something fishy and people start asking question....
Example 2: Croatia sent soldiers to Afghanistan. There was a lot of pressure from Croatian people because there were not enough information about it. Government was forced to send only those who volunteered and that those soldiers go only as instructors not as combat soldiers.
In U.S.A. there was censorship of everything that happend during war in Afghanistan (reporters werent allowed to show pictures of dead, destroyed US vehicles ). In Croatia informations were instant. There was live coverage of everything. Even soldiers sent pictures to their families who then in some cases forwarded them to reporters (Pyramid of prosciutto ham).

I am always surprised when people in US dont know some for me commonly known things. When in debates everyone talks about killing Iranian scientists, invading Iran etc. for average person in Croatia it is hard to digest those things.

I think that we are privy to more info than people in US are. Problem is that I dont know about those things until I start to speak with someone from U.S.A.If you got any questions I will be glad to answer them. (Newest thing that I found out was NATO base in Croatia) Ill stop now because i dont want to hijack this thread...

 

[Mini-Me]

Yes food but most of your food is made by corporations now.If the dollar just inflates those corporations would collapse.Also most of the agriculture the USA has is heavily depended on oil cause of high mechanization.There has never been a hunger cause the people could not produce food or the land was bad it was because of political and economical factors.

That's another thing I didn't think of: Even modern agricultural production is heavily dependent upon oil. Barring political stupidity, I'm not concerned about the failure of food companies as a direct result of a currency collapse, corporations or not: Even if the dollar collapses, companies - even corporations - will soon find an alternate means of exchange to stay afloat and sell their products. However, I don't doubt that heavy-handed political stupidity WILL follow a dollar collapse; the stage is not being set for totalitarian powers for no reason, after all.

Even if the government allows the market to work though, you're still probably right in an indirect sense: Even if we establish an interim currency (whether toilet paper or something historically sound like gold/silver), the rest of us still don't exactly produce enough of anything else to trade for food. Our best bet would be actually exporting cheap food for oil using an internationally useful means of exchange (probably gold), but that would obviously reduce the American food supply in the short term...and the short term is long enough for people to starve.

The starvation in Ukraine ( the grain barn of europe ) was started cause of political stupidity.
The hunger in Germany after world war 1 was because of hyper inflation ( and that was in a time when almost all food was produced by small farmers)

Indeed...and the famines under Communist governments were also largely political in nature.

And the most important factor by me for the USA is "being spoiled".Your social security check is 5 times the wage for a full time job in Asia,South America and Eastern Europe.What you consider poverty is not exactly being poor.You go into a meltdown when there is not another X-box on black Friday (I think it was called like that ) so what do you think will happen when the stores start getting half empty,the SS check does not come,gas is x10,you need 2 trillion dollars to buy bread and EVERYONE IS ARMED.And then you also have a few million immigrants to include into the problem.

See during the great depression the USA made almost everything it spent, people were more tough and less dependent on government assistance today it is a very different society.

I agree...we are completely spoiled, and we have become a very entitlement-minded society in more ways than one.

For one thing, we're going to see a lot of stupids in denial during a collapse, much like in Greece, where protesters kept demanding cushy jobs and benefits from their bankrupt government. Worse though, even people with a good head on their shoulders are not ready for the shock we're going to receive. We're simply too accustomed to living lavishly and pissing money away on frivolous things. My great grandparents had a garden and raised chickens and rabbits during the Great Depression, and my grandpa worked his ass off as a small child both for them and picking grapes for neighbors (he picked grapes, my great-grandpa made wine, and the two families split the final product). That was on top of going to school and working a job. Overall, they were better off than many. We are TOTALLY not ready for this kind of lifestyle. I am totally not ready for this kind of lifestyle...and my own specialized skills will be completely useless in this kind of environment. For that matter, the government - ever hellbent on keeping people dependent - has actively discouraged people from becoming anywhere near self-sufficient.

The gun culture is going to be a mixed blessing: On the one hand, it will make armed looters common...but on the other hand, it will allow others to defend against them. It also just might stand in the way of a complete totalitarian takeover, considering people are going to go to great lengths to protect their freedom to trade when their lives actually depend on it. If complete social breakdown occurs and the government loses all credibility, their mandates may not be taken seriously anymore, and they won't have the means to enforce them.

As a side note, I don't think the immigrants are going to be a problem; they're going to run right back to Mexico and Central and South America the moment this country becomes even worse. :-/

May I ask what country you live in?

 

[eleganz]

No, that's not me. I am an English teacher at Tzu-Chi University in Hualien. Ron Paul supporter's in Taiwan are everywhere. It's common knowledge amongst the expat community worldwide that the only candidate worthy of the presidency is Ron Paul. No one else will do.

Cool! Tzu Chi is a very good organization, I like and respect their mission.

I'm a Fo Guang Shuan kid myself.

 

[Demigod]

May I ask what country you live in?

Republic of Macedonia