RP said he wouldnt have had OBL killed?

[jmdrake]

Ron made a big mistake. The U.S. actually had authorization from Pakistan, and part of the deal was that they were going to pretend they didn't authorize it. Oh well.

And the evidence you have of this (other than your own rank speculation) is........?

If Pakistan wanted to play this kind of game they could have easily arrested OBL and dropped him off over the border in Afghanistan with an embedded GPS chip. Or they could have at the very least first moved him into the Pakistan mountains or at least further then spitting distance from on of their top military facilities. And don't give me any "they were afraid to move on him" nonsense. There were just a few unarmed people in the compound and if they had been unsure of that he could have been grabbed on the way to dialysis.

 

[jmdrake]

LOLz at RP's answer. Like others I agree with it on principle, but it fails on a political level. This is like 2008 all over again. If we play the game by their rules and simultaneously try to remained principled we lose. It's time to change the rules. People are afraid that Ron Paul will look crazy if he challenges the rules. But he looks just as crazy staying within the rules and trying to be principled.

 

[jmdrake]

I don't find a problem with this. It fits in with the larger portion of this story.

When it first came out, people were immediately saying that the intel used to get Bin Laden came from torture and "advanced interrogation." Even though that story has changed, the faith in waterboarding and the like is still renewed. If all of that is true, then why wasn't Bin Laden captured and interrogated? It didn't need to be publicized that Bin Laden had been captured, or by whom, or where he was being held. We might have found out just in time for 9/11/11 that there was a video of a confused, rambling OBL talking about his wives and children and telling us all his major plots and hideouts. If interrogation is so awesome, why execute the biggest font of terrorist knowledge?

Cause Michael Scheuer says that torture works on everybody except Osama Bin Laden. And folks wonder why I question him? (M.S. that is).

Beyond that, Ron is basing his answers on hindsight. That's what everyone who's asked "what would you do" is working off of. None of us knows how it looked to the people kicking down doors and running through the compound, but if only one person was armed (which was the last I heard; forgive me if the story has changed yet again), why were there multiple dead/wounded? If the fear was that Osama was wearing a suicide vest, there were other ways to neutralize him that don't involve putting a huge hole in his head. The reports (again, the latest ones I've seen; sorry if they're now inaccurate) have enough time elapsing for the military to observe OBL was confused and the like, and that he grabbed his wife and threw her, and that someone had time to shoot her, and that someone then took out OBL. Seconds, sure, but it seems like that story would contradict the whole "he was a huge threat" meme that's being put out.

All of that is much more conveniently reduced to two facts: 1. Ron Paul would not have had a huge military presence in the region to begin with, 2. Ron Paul would not have sent in an assassination team to execute OBL.

You're thinking logically. And you are 100% right. But if the average voter thought logically we would have won in 2008.

 

[TRIGRHAPPY]

Principal or not, this sounds like a campaign ending political mistake. No chance in the primary now. He should bow out and have Rand step in.

Neocons will not vote for him. I'm with him on this, but we must recognize the reality that we just lost the majority of the republican and independent vote. Either he drops out and Rand enters or we have another neocon win the primary and Obama the general.

 

[jmdrake]

Principal or not, this sounds like a campaign ending political mistake. No chance in the primary now. He should bow out and have Rand step in.

Neocons will not vote for him. I'm with him on this, but we must recognize the reality that we just lost the majority of the republican and independent vote. Either he drops out and Rand enters or we have another neocon win the primary and Obama the general.

Well he's not dropping out and Rand's not jumping in until 2016. If you've given up all hope (I haven't) you can always support Gary Johnson. Ron could change the rules and get 30% nationally and swamp the GOP primaries. But alas I don't think he'll do that.

 

[Justinjj1]

The answer he gave was just fine and I would expect no less of him to give an honest answer.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Principal or not, this sounds like a campaign ending political mistake. No chance in the primary now. He should bow out and have Rand step in.

Neocons will not vote for him. I'm with him on this, but we must recognize the reality that we just lost the majority of the republican and independent vote. Either he drops out and Rand enters or we have another neocon win the primary and Obama the general.

Ugh... I won't go as far as you but this is really bad electorally...

 

[jmdrake]

The answer he gave was just fine and I would expect no less of him to give an honest answer.

It's fine for people who already support Ron Paul in general and it may be fine for liberals who support his foreign policy already, but it won't win over the "Rand Paul republicans". Not by itself anyway. Had he thrown in something about letters of marquee and reprisal, or changes the rules of the game in some other respect he could connect with those people at an emotional level. Anyway, we play the hand we're dealt. We need to convince enough dems and independents to vote for Ron in the primary.

 

[Justinjj1]

Any neocon jingoist that is offended by this answer was never going to vote for him in the first place.

 

[TRIGRHAPPY]

I'm with him regardless. I supported him last time....i even drove across the country to see him at the debate in florida..... But he cannot win the republican primary now. At best, he can spread the message again...but i want to WIN. I still love him and i will still support him either way....but i acknowledge the political reality of what he said. I will be brought up in every debate and will be used to undermine him....and it will work. I do pray that Rand steps in.

 

[Justinjj1]

I'm with him regardless. I supported him last time....i even drove across the country to see him at the debate in florida..... But he cannot win the republican primary now. At best, he can spread the message again...but i want to WIN. I still love him and i will still support him either way....but i acknowledge the political reality of what he said. I will be brought up in every debate and will be used to undermine him....and it will work. I do pray that Rand steps in.

I want a candidate that challenges the status quo. Rand would be indistinguishable from the rest of the Republican field.

 

[demolama]

All Americans regardless of political affiliation are ecstatic with the death of OBL. This article plays on the highly emotional nationalistic feeling Americans are experiencing right now. These articles pick the most juicy parts of the interview in an attempt to make Paul look extremely weak in an area most people who follow politics feel he is the weakest. It plays on the emotions. It was a great gotcha moment for them. Will the average person look into the actual video?... nope. But then again they wouldn't have bothered looking up any of his solutions to the problem and are simply fine with media telling them what they should think on any issue.

Media has never been the friend to liberty. Nineteenth-century newspapers were filled with partisan and biased news and will always be so. Democracy doesn't work and never will. People are busy with working 40+ hours, watching tv, raising children, etc. to look deeply into political issues on their own and will always vote by how people tell them they should.

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."
— Thomas Jefferson

 

[jmdrake]

Any neocon jingoist that is offended by this answer was never going to vote for him in the first place.

Believe that if you will even though it's not true. Devvy Kidd, a big time Ron Paul supporter in 2008, jumped ship and attacked RP over his DADT vote. While this is different, I can imagine others who supported RP up to a point, but might jump ship over this.

 

[civusamericanus]

This article and video of Cheney are pretty convincing, that Bin Laden has never been connected to 9/11... They can spin it all they want, but its never been proven.

Interesting.

Interview With Osama bin Laden. Denies His Involvement in 9/11

Full text of Pakistani paper's Sept 2001 "exclusive" interview

Daily Ummat in Urdu, BBC translation in English, 2001




Ummat's introduction

Kabul: Prominent Arab mojahed holy warrior Usamah Bin-Ladin has said that he or his al-Qa'idah group has nothing to do with the 11 September suicidal attacks in Washington and New York. He said the US government should find the attackers within the country. In an exclusive interview with daily "Ummat", he said these attacks could be the act of those who are part of the American system and are rebelling against it and working for some other system. Or, Usamah said, this could be the act of those who want to make the current century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. Or, the American Jews, who are opposed to President Bush ever since the Florida elections, might be the masterminds of this act. There is also a great possibility of the involvement of US intelligence agencies, which need billions of dollars worth of funds every year. He said there is a government within the government in the United States.

The secret agencies, he said, should be asked as to who are behind the attacks. Usamah said support for attack on Afghanistan was a matter of need for some Muslim countries and compulsion for others. However, he said, he was thankful to the courageous people of Pakistan who erected a bulwark before the wrong forces. He added that the Islamic world was attaching great expectations with Pakistan and, in time of need, "we will protect this bulwark by sacrificing of lives".

Following is the interview in full detail:

.

 

[specsaregood]

who is Simon Conway and why is Ron granting interviews to every tom, dick and harry? Of course this is going to get spun against him, because most people are too stupid to comprehend what he actually said.

Its one of the biggest radio stations in Iowa, reaches a lot of folks.

 

[John of Des Moines]

Its one of the biggest radio stations in Iowa, reaches a lot of folks.

What ^^^^ he ^^^^ said times ten.

If Ron Paul is to win the Iowa straw poll and caucus he needs to go on WHO radio early and often. Paul needs to go on the Jan Mickelson show for an hour every other week from now to the caucus - and it was offered last time.

 

[klamath]

I am afraid Paul is lossing it. He has absolutely no electoral sense. First saying we should legalize Heroin, now this? I guess I will stick around for Rand even thought I am starting to question Rand's quietness pushing a resolution about libya. I guess I will save a bunch of money this election cycle. Sad day.

 

[Badger Paul]

Once again we have principled RP standing up for what he believes in rather than doing what's politically expdient, which would have been saying "Oh yeah, I would have killed the bastard." That's not who he is and if want him to run you have to put up with it.

However, it should be pointed out Ron's position is not much different than McCain's when he was asked during a debate in 2008 if he would authorize a raid into Pakistan to get OBL.

Just remember while successful U.S. forces were also extremely lucky. This raid could have been a bloody fiasco which could have set us on a collision course with a nuclear armed Pakistan. If things had turned out different, would saying "Yeah, I would have killed the bastard," have been any more popular? A lot of people would saying the same thing RP is.

But that's water under the bridge. Bottom line is OBL is dead. Period. It doesn't matter anymore. We need to focus on the future and getting out of the region so we don't breed a future generation of bin Laden's Over 60 percent people want the war in Afghanistan to end. That's why they were cheering bin Laden's death, because they want this war to end. RP has to tap into this war weariness in order to win. He's got to say "I'm the only candidate running who is going to end this war" and that's what will get him votes.

 

[specsaregood]

Once again we have principled RP standing up for what he believes in rather than doing what's politically expdient, which would have been saying "Oh yeah, I would have killed the bastard." That's not who he is and if want him to run you have to put up with it.

However, it should be pointed out Ron's position is not much different than McCain's when he was asked during a debate in 2008 if he would authorize a raid into Pakistan to get OBL.

Just remember while successful U.S. forces were also extremely lucky. This raid could have been a bloody fiasco which could have set us on a collision course with a nuclear armed Pakistan. If things had turned out different, would saying "Yeah, I would have killed the bastard," have been any more popular? A lot of people would saying the same thing RP is.

But that's water under the bridge. Bottom line is OBL is dead. Period. It doesn't matter anymore. We need to focus on the future and getting out of the region so we don't breed a future generation of bin Laden's Over 60 percent people want the war in Afghanistan to end. That's why they were cheering bin Laden's death, because they want this war to end. RP has to tap into this war weariness in order to win. He's got to say "I'm the only candidate running who is going to end this war" and that's what will get him votes.

^That. AND He is the only one that has been pushing to STOP foreign aid to Pakistan from the beginning. While it seems we have been paying Pakistan billions of dollars, just to result in them hiding Bin Laden from us.

 

[radiofriendly]

Principal or not, this sounds like a campaign ending political mistake. No chance in the primary now. He should bow out and have Rand step in.

Neocons will not vote for him. I'm with him on this, but we must recognize the reality that we just lost the majority of the republican and independent vote. Either he drops out and Rand enters or we have another neocon win the primary and Obama the general.

Not quite that bad, but he does need to bring Rand in as an advisor!
Remember, this does give him a chance now for all of the media to follow up and ask him
what he means by "that." Also, don't get too depressed about tweets...these aren't the normal
Republican voters. Stay strong...let this play out for another 24 hrs.