Ron Paul's potential problem with the General "Betray-us" Report

[RP4ME]

Well intentioned people believe in this war along with not so well intentioned souls - Patreus may be one of the well intentioned ones... Thats said no one can say or should say he is unpatriotic unless they have the facts to back it up. Do I think he is? I dont know. I dont care.

There are far to many FACTS about how we went to war and the results of thsi speak for themselves. Did we really need this report to support either side?. No.

I agree it is not a good idea that moveone.org called him that ....b/c it does the same thing Fox news debates do for our man and hopefully what Oreilly will do for us tonite! I detest when fox says peopel who dont agree with teh war are unamerican communists....its all a farce and is purposely trying to get bothe sides worked up to then wekaen them both.... The issue IS the Constitution lets focus on that....

 

[fletcher]

Using the 'name' Betray-Us makes you look like a fucking moron. I expect that from the Democrats, not Ron Paul supporters. max should be embarrassed of himself and this thread should be moved or deleted.

 

[happyphilter]

Whats wrong with trusting general petraeus, hes a very good man and a patriot, he shouldent be dissed or looked down upon, so please dont call him "betray-us" just because you cant spell petraeus(I'm not even sure I have it right)

Fact of the matter is, it cannot hurt ron paul for saying that he holds general petraeus's opinion in high regards. Hes been in Iraq, he knows better then any of us could about whats going on.

 

[johnrocks]

Well intentioned people believe in this war along with not so well intentioned souls - Patreus may be one of the well intentioned ones... Thats said no one can say or should say he is unpatriotic unless they have the facts to back it up. Do I think he is? I dont know. I dont care.

There are far to many FACTS about how we went to war and the results of thsi speak for themselves. Did we really need this report to support either side?. No.

I agree it is not a good idea that moveone.org called him that ....b/c it does the same thing Fox news debates do for our man and hopefully what Oreilly will do for us tonite! I detest when fox says peopel who dont agree with teh war are unamerican communists....its all a farce and is purposely trying to get bothe sides worked up to then wekaen them both.... The issue IS the Constitution lets focus on that....

Well said!! I detest anyone that belittles our men and women in uniform, they are following orders. The good general was put in a no win situation, if he came back and said we need to pull out yesterday, moveon would have portrayed him as the best military genius since Sun Tzu!

 

[American]

The freaks have really come out on this one.....lol

 

[LibertyEagle]

You want some tissue or something, a cookie, what?

Are you a moderator on this board, I think you made your point now STFU, kthxbye

FO!

 

[American]

FO!

Dont bring the ball, if you cant bring the game......Bring it sunshine, .....


Kinda like the columnist who write Rue Paul and not Ron Paul, huh?

 

[Kuldebar]

Well said!! I detest anyone that belittles our men and women in uniform, they are following orders.

The people who wear the uniforms are much like any other people, let's not lose sight of that. Also, just following orders only goes so far...

I many ways, being on the ground in the middle of a war zone makes one less of a reasoned expert on the situation. Talk about vested interests! If your best buddy just got his face blown off, you are going to have some difficulty with accepting that the fight you are in is illegitimate.

As for Generals, my last job was working for a man who is currently the Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, he's a good man. But, not every General is a "good man" some are not very principled and are wholly political animals.

 

[axiomata]

Present evidence against Petraeus' character or drop it.

 

[johnrocks]

The people who wear the uniforms are much like any other people, let's not lose sight of that.

I many ways, being on the ground in the middle of a war zone makes one less of a reasoned expert on the situation. Talk about vested interests! If your best buddy just got his face blown off, you are going to have some difficulty with accepting that the fight you are in is illegitimate.

As for Generals, my last job was working for a man who is currently the Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, he's a good man. But, not every General is a "good man" some are not very principled and are wholly political animals.

I agree but where were they three months ago when the Democrats agreed to wait on his report? Why didn't they say THEN that it would be merely a report that would be to Bush's liking? I have always been against this war and remain so, I think we do need to change our foreign policy but I will NEVER call a soldier a pawn or a traitor just because their opinion is different than mine. Call me old fashioned but I hold the military in high esteem, it's our policies I have a problem with.

 

[Kuldebar]

Present evidence against Petraeus' character or drop it.

Nice try but no cigar.

The general's report is supporting the will of the President in regards to the Iraqi situation. That alone is reason enough to doubt the veracity of the general's report.

Dozens if not 100's of people, contractors and uniformed personnel, sit down in meetings and massage the data. It isn't lying, it's simply electing not to expose facts that derail your agenda.

The goal is to support a certain outcome as expressed by the leadership, the role of the staff is to produce a briefing that does just that.

 

[axiomata]

Dozens if not 100's of people, contractors and uniformed personnel, sit down in meetings and massage the data. It isn't lying, it's simply electing not to expose facts that derail your agenda.

Since you were at said meeting I guess I'll drop it.

 

[Kuldebar]

I agree but where were they three months ago when the Democrats agreed to wait on his report? Why didn't they say THEN that it would be merely a report that would be to Bush's liking? I have always been against this war and remain so, I think we do need to change our foreign policy but I will NEVER call a soldier a pawn or a traitor just because their opinion is different than mine. Call me old fashioned but I hold the military in high esteem, it's our policies I have a problem with.

I don't think I am in disagreement with you on this.

I simply point out that military leaders are fair game but as in anything we shouldn't paint wildly with a too broad of a brush.

The principled leaders are dissatisfied, but the can not speak too loudly about their views. Whatever good they can do will be to support their soldiers is by staying where they are at, getting relieved of command simply removes them from the picture.

General Shinseki acted honorably by testifying honestly about his opinions on how many troops would be necessary on the ground after the fall of the regime.

His reward from his superiors was to be asked to step down from the CSA one year early.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Dont bring the ball, if you cant bring the game......Bring it sunshine, .....


Kinda like the columnist who write Rue Paul and not Ron Paul, huh?

I can play any game you want. However, I was under the assumption what MOST of us on this board were trying to do was to get Dr. Paul the Republican nomination. So sorry to distract you from your fun and games with reality.

 

[Kuldebar]

Since you were at said meeting I guess I'll drop it.

I wasn't at that particular meeting, but I have been to 100's of similar meetings when I worked as a defense contractor. The standard way military briefings come together is part and parcel to the entire DoD's methodology. A leader announces a goal or desire to reach a goal and asks for a briefing, depending on the politics involved this will impact how the briefing or report is put together by the various staff organizations. The natural tendency supports positive information and downplays negative information.

 

[Shellshock1918]

With regards to the much anticipated General Betray-Us report, RP may have set himself up for an embarasing moment.

In the first or second debate RP said...

"If they (Petraues and company) report in September that there's been no progress, then we should leave." (paraphrase)

Well we all KNOW that General Betray-Us is a Bush stooge, and that the much ballyhooed Betray-Us report is gonna be a fraud - claiming that the "surge" is working. .

So, what happens if MSM pundits start playing the clip of RP and put him on the spot? The Betray-us report is due out next week.

RP should never have said that. In doing so, he gave General Betray-Us credibility and put himself in a spot.

If theres someone close to campaign....they should remind RP of what he said so he can manuever around this if the MSM replays the clip. It could be used against him.

Excuse me, I as well as others have asked you to not refer to Petraeus as "Betray us".
I asked you nicely to refrain from that.
Now you've done it again, despite concern from others.

You've deserved this:

Go to hell.

 

[American]

I can play any game you want. However, I was under the assumption what MOST of us on this board were trying to do was to get Dr. Paul the Republican nomination. So sorry to distract you from your fun and games with reality.

Agreed, I actually want Ron Paul in the White House. The Republican nod is important but not the end all be all of this race.

The democrats need to know about Ron Paul now so when and if the Republican nomination doesn't happen, we have another plan. This would work just fine in Democratic circles.

I've been on almost every forum I can find in relation to getting Ron Paul the GOP nod, and I am less then encouraged. They feed into the media bullshit like its there life's blood. The ones who want to vote for Ron Paul will vote for Ron Paul, Its time to work on the Democrats now, IMHO

This isnt about parties right? This is a revolution for the American people....

 

[aravoth]

This thread is bullshit. You wanna blame someone for the the way the war is going? Fine, blame the Secretary of Defense, blame the Joint Cheifs, blame the President, Blame the fucking Congress that I bet half of you voted for.

Patreaus is a soldier. Not some dipshit playing Army in an office building. He was given an objective, and he's trying to complete that objective. Congress, The President, those are the bad guys. They are ones that started this shit, and they are the ones who will not end it. They tear the constitution to ribbons, they misapropriate our money, they send our troops into a secratarian shithole, and they strip you of your cival liberties. And you want to get all hot and bothered by a decorated four Star General's assesment of how well a bad thing is going? Give me a fucking break.

I realize that in this movement there are a ton of people I don't agree with. We're all from different political persausions. It's a miricale we get along at all. Some of you have no fucking tact, no respect, and push your own bullshit at the expense of others.

Patreaus and the soldiers under him have risked more, and done more for thier nation than most of you could ever hope to do holding up a cardboard sign.

 

[Shellshock1918]

This thread is bullshit. You wanna blame someone for the the way the war is going? Fine, blame the Secretary of Defense, blame the Joint Cheifs, blame the President, Blame the fucking Congress that I bet half of you voted for.

Patreaus is a soldier. Not some dipshit playing Army in an office building. He was given an objective, and he's trying to complete that objective. Congress, The President, those are the bad guys. They are ones that started this shit, and they are the ones who will not end it. They tear the constitution to ribbons, they misapropriate our money, they send our troops into a secratarian shithole, and they strip you of your cival liberties. And you want to get all hot and bothered by a decorated four Star General's assesment of how well a bad thing is going? Give me a fucking break.

I realize that in this movement there are a ton of people I don't agree with. We're all from different political persausions. It's a miricale we get along at all. Some of you have no fucking tact, no respect, and push your own bullshit at the expense of others.

Patreaus and the soldiers under him have risked more, and done more for thier nation than most of you could ever hope to do holding up a cardboard sign.

Well said.

Don't smear his name in with the politicians who started the war. Its fucking disrespectful and childish and those who continue to do so are only ruining their own reputation.

 

[sbradbury]

This thread is bullshit indeed. Unless someone has specific evidence that General Patreaus is a dishonest person I would be exceedingly hesitant to call a 4 star General anything disrespectful.

4 stars is no small accomplishment.