Ron Paul's immigration position from 2007

[nikcers]

If I'm doing that, then why can't you find a quote of me doing that?

You are being dishonest. You keep saying Ron contradicted himself i have quoted you saying it already in the thread everyone wbo can read can see you are saying Ron Paul contradicted himself. Ron Paul has a position on securing the border to control people coming here illegally and a position on immigration reform. Is there a contradiction?

 

[nikcers]

Monday January 30, 2017

View attachment 6950


"Just one week in office, President Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the US-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.

First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will of course hurt the poorest Americans the most.

Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the US legally.

Likewise, the 40 year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the US has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.

We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more US states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the US has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.

Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand US plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.

I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain."


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...30/a-better-solution-than-trump-s-border-wall

Ron always makes clickbait articles about the narrative of discussion going on and uses it to push his message of liberty and other positions. He rarely talks about the news topic of tbe day because he would rather educate the people on his message of liberty and limited government. You cant honestly say he doesnt want unlimited people coming here that will add to the countries debt. You cant honestly say he changed his policy position when he is trying to push political discussions towards rational policy and meaningful reform so that people dont overreact to the narrative and demand the government install a real police state. You are a bad actor with a dishonest character if you think Ron Paul changed his position from the original post and want to push tbe narrative tbat he contradicts himself or doesnt believe in the policy he ran on in 2007.

 

[invisible]

Ron always makes clickbait articles about the narrative of discussion going on and uses it to push his message of liberty and other positions. He rarely talks about the news topic of tbe day because he would rather educate the people on his message of liberty and limited government. You cant honestly say he doesnt want unlimited people coming here that will add to the countries debt. You cant honestly say he changed his policy position when he is trying to push political discussions towards rational policy and meaningful reform so that people dont overreact to the narrative and demand the government install a real police state. You are a bad actor with a dishonest character if you think Ron Paul changed his position from the original post and want to push tbe narrative tbat he contradicts himself or doesnt believe in the policy he ran on in 2007.

PAF hasn't said any of those things, it's right there in what he quoted:

The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents.

That's one of the things we all agree is great about Ron Paul: he's been extremely consistant in his positions over the decades.
And yes, there is a lot of overreacting and using the issue of illegal immigration to demand a police state. Look at all the "communist invaders" collectivist hyperbole that the trumpettes and shylls are pushing. Look at how they constantly try to claim that trump expanding the big government police state is a good thing, and attempt to make Ron Paul into trump (and vice versa). Look at how they spend almost 40 posts a day calling everyone who opposes trump a communist, all while telling everyone that we should make our country into north korea or east germany, complete with spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, big government police state, abusing people in concentration camps, and a wall.

Supporting Ron Paul's immigration policy and opposing trump's does not make someone for open borders, nor does it make them a leftist, communist, socialist, or any of the other names that the trumpettes and shylls like to throw around to the point where they become meaningless.

 

[nikcers]

PAF hasn't said any of those things, it's right there in what he quoted:


That's one of the things we all agree is great about Ron Paul: he's been extremely consistant in his positions over the decades.
And yes, there is a lot of overreacting and using the issue of illegal immigration to demand a police state. Look at all the "communist invaders" collectivist hyperbole that the trumpettes and shylls are pushing. Look at how they constantly try to claim that trump expanding the big government police state is a good thing, and attempt to make Ron Paul into trump (and vice versa). Look at how they spend almost 40 posts a day calling everyone who opposes trump a communist, all while telling everyone that we should make our country into north korea or east germany, complete with spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, big government police state, abusing people in concentration camps, and a wall.

Supporting Ron Paul's immigration policy and opposing trump's does not make someone for open borders, nor does it make them a leftist, communist, socialist, or any of the other names that the trumpettes and shylls like to throw around to the point where they become meaningless.

I paraphrased the meaning of his words that is why he won't even respond. You can pretend like english doesn't have different meanings based on context but most people can understand that Ron Paul had ideas for immigration reform and ideas for securing the boder and said that the border needs secured before immigration reform but everyone who can read the OP can see that Ron Paul clearly said that the border should be secured before immigration reform. You can repeat your lies all you want, because you are trying to push your narrative but Ron Paul clearly has ideas for immigration reform and has advocated for securing the border. He probably would even go further than what Trump is doing now, that's what he means when he says the wall won't work and that's why when he ran for president in 2007 he said it that way.

 

[nikcers]

Notice that Ron Paul never said that he would stop people who lacked papers from coming here.

This is an example of just what I was saying. You see Ron Paul say one thing, and in your mind, because of the assumptions you make, you think he means something else.

Again how do you "Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals." without asking for papers. How do you control entry without asking for papers or closing the border entirely?

This is a great case in point.

See what I'm saying, folks? So this guy sees Ron Paul use phrases like "secure borders" and he just assumes that those phrases must mean that Ron Paul supports the immigration restriction policies that he thinks of when he hears those phrases. And if Ron Paul doesn't support those policies, then his using those phrases would make him a liar.

Despite the fact that phrases like those aren't articulations of a specific policy, and none of the sound bites quoted actually say anything in contradiction of Ron Paul's well-known pro-immigration policies.

Its contradiction to his immigration reform because it was never part of his immigration reform policies. It was his border security policy that he said must be implemented before immigration reform. He said we need to Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry before implementing his immigration reform policy. You are both conflating the immigration reform and border security policy intentionally to push your narrative of open borders.

 

[invisible]

I paraphrased the meaning of his words that is why he won't even respond. You can pretend like english doesn't have different meanings based on context but most people can understand that Ron Paul had ideas for immigration reform and ideas for securing the boder and said that the border needs secured before immigration reform but everyone who can read the OP can see that Ron Paul clearly said that the border should be secured before immigration reform. You can repeat your lies all you want, because you are trying to push your narrative but Ron Paul clearly has ideas for immigration reform and has advocated for securing the border. He probably even go farther than what Trump is doing now, that's what he means when he says the wall won't work and that's why when he ran for president in 2007 he said it that way.

Huh? Are you trying to claim that I am somehow lying about Ron Paul's positions, to push a narrative that is contrary to them?

 

[Superfluous Man]

You keep saying Ron contradicted himself

I have never said that.

Find the quote if you think I have.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Huh? Are you trying to claim that I am somehow lying about Ron Paul's positions, to push a narrative that is contrary to them?

That guy can't read.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Again how do you "Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals." without asking for papers. How do you control entry without asking for papers or closing the border entirely?

There are lots of ways. And it's not even that hard to conceive of because it's how things were before 9/11. I crossed in and out at the Canadian border back then without a passport, but I still went through controlled border crossings. But those are questions to ask Ron Paul. You may not think it's possible to reconcile his policies with the sound byte quotes you gave, but he obviously never had the problem with reconciling those things that you have. You're the one who sees contradictions where they don't actually exist.

 

[nikcers]

That guy can't read.

This is a great case in point.

See what I'm saying, folks? So this guy sees Ron Paul use phrases like "secure borders" and he just assumes that those phrases must mean that Ron Paul supports the immigration restriction policies that he thinks of when he hears those phrases. And if Ron Paul doesn't support those policies, then his using those phrases would make him a liar.

Despite the fact that phrases like those aren't articulations of a specific policy, and none of the sound bites quoted actually say anything in contradiction of Ron Paul's well-known pro-immigration policies.

Its not anti immigrant to want to control the borders of your country and implement immigration reform. The reason why you got to control the border first is because the left who we now know is colluding with China want to let unlimited people into the country through the open border so that they destroy our economy because we can't afford unlmited immigration into the country without the immigration reform policies that Ron Paul is known to support that you are talking about.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Its not anti immigrant to want to control the borders of your country and implement immigration reform.

Exactly.

So you agree with me that it's dishonest when people quote Ron Paul saying he wants to control the borders and try to use that as evidence that he shares their anti-immigration views. He clearly doesn't, and has said so many times.

 

[Ender]

Ron always makes clickbait articles about the narrative of discussion going on and uses it to push his message of liberty and other positions. He rarely talks about the news topic of tbe day because he would rather educate the people on his message of liberty and limited government. You cant honestly say he doesnt want unlimited people coming here that will add to the countries debt. You cant honestly say he changed his policy position when he is trying to push political discussions towards rational policy and meaningful reform so that people dont overreact to the narrative and demand the government install a real police state. You are a bad actor with a dishonest character if you think Ron Paul changed his position from the original post and want to push tbe narrative tbat he contradicts himself or doesnt believe in the policy he ran on in 2007.

Quoting Ron Paul is being a bad actor?

HERE is RP's position above & one that I have been quoting since FOREVER- LEARN TO READ.


The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

 

[nikcers]

We have too many unfunded liabilities to let unlimited people come here who will take more out of them than they put into them because we already have too many people taking more out of things like medicare and social security than they are putting into it. Now we know that the democrat party who collude with the Chinese want medicare for all because they are bought and paid for by chinese communists who want to destroy the American economy in the trade war that they started before Trump ever became president.

 

[nikcers]

Quoting Ron Paul is being a bad actor?

HERE is RP's position above & one that I have been quoting since FOREVER- LEARN TO READ.


The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

You are just quoting his policy on immigration reform and not border security which he said should be done first. Which Rand Paul said should be done first. Its dishonest to say that Ron Pauls immigration reform policy is his border security policy. He has said multiple times that we need both.

 

[nikcers]

Exactly.

So you agree with me that it's dishonest when people quote Ron Paul saying he wants to control the borders and try to use that as evidence that he shares their anti-immigration views. He clearly doesn't, and has said so many times.

So you agree that he has said "We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals." and do both. I agree with Ron paul too.

 

[Superfluous Man]

So you agree that he has said "We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals." and do both. I agree with Ron paul too.

Of course. And I've never denied that.

That's why I don't get what you're trying to argue about.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Fortunately people can read for themselves instead of having to take the word of lying troll for what Ron's position was:



Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[PAF]

Fortunately people can read for themselves instead of having to take the word of lying troll for what Ron's position

Stuff a sock in it already, and screw your “Berlin Wall”. And quit with repeated Neg Reps over, and over, and over, again, immature little child.

Can you read the bold?

Monday January 30, 2017


"Just one week in office, President Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the US-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.

First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will of course hurt the poorest Americans the most.

Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

The various taxpayer-funded programs that benefit illegal immigrants in the United States, such as direct financial transfers, medical benefits, food assistance, and education, cost an estimated $100 billion dollars per year. That is a significant burden on citizens and legal residents. The promise of free money, free food, free education, and free medical care if you cross the border illegally is a powerful incentive for people to do so. It especially makes no sense for the United States government to provide these services to those who are not in the US legally.

Likewise, the 40 year war on drugs has produced no benefit to the American people at a great cost. It is estimated that since President Nixon declared a war on drugs, the US has spent more than a trillion dollars to fight what is a losing battle. That is because just as with the welfare magnet, there is an enormous incentive to smuggle drugs into the United States.

We already know the effect that ending the war on drugs has on illegal smuggling: as more and more US states decriminalize marijuana for medical and recreational uses, marijuana smuggling from Mexico to the US has dropped by 50 percent from 2010.

Finally, the threat of terrorists crossing into the United States from Mexico must be taken seriously, however once again we must soberly consider why they may seek to do us harm. We have been dropping bombs on the Middle East since at least 1990. Last year President Obama dropped more than 26,000 bombs. Thousands of civilians have been killed in US drone attacks. The grand US plan to “remake” the Middle East has produced only misery, bloodshed, and terrorism. Ending this senseless intervention will go a long way toward removing the incentive to attack the United States.

I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally. They will keep coming as long as those incentives remain."


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...30/a-better-solution-than-trump-s-border-wall

 

[Swordsmyth]

Stuff a sock in it already, and screw your “Berlin Wall”. And quit with repeated Neg Reps over, and over, and over, again, immature little child.

Can you read the bold?

This thread isn't about the wall, troll.
And you are the one ignoring what Ron's positions were in 2007, troll.
And an article from 2017 has no bearing on 2007, troll.
And Ron voted for the secure fence act, he may have changed his mind later but that has nothing to do with this thread, troll.




Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[PAF]

Quoting Ron Paul is being a bad actor?

HERE is RP's position above & one that I have been quoting since FOREVER- LEARN TO READ.


The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

I’m out of +Rep so I owe you one.

And then he accuses Ron of clickbait, and rarely talks about the news topics of the day lol

Ron always makes clickbait articles

He rarely talks about the news topic of tbe day