Ron Paul: The Case For Free Trade

[nikcers]

As I stated earlier, that's not the problem. The problem is that individuals within that collective of "your fellow US citizens" are buying those dumped products because you've failed to convince them that doing so is "bad". You haven't made your case with them. Instead you're getting your government to coerce your fellow citizens by hitting them over the head (with tariffs) until they come to their senses and recognize that those in positions of power know what's better for them than they do. The very definition of elitism.

You can't convince someone to not follow their self interests. You can blame God for that. He was the one who created eve the way she is.

She was always going to eat the apple. The snake is inside us all.

 

[TheTexan]

People on this forum like to say central planning is always bad well it's not.

Pretty much everything difficult and good that has ever been done by humans was done via some form of central planning.

It's not always bad.

 

[TheTexan]

As I stated earlier, that's not the problem. The problem is that individuals within that collective of "your fellow US citizens" are buying those dumped products because you've failed to convince them that doing so is "bad". You haven't made your case with them. Instead you're getting your government to coerce your fellow citizens by hitting them over the head (with tariffs) until they come to their senses and recognize that those in positions of power know what's better for them than they do. The very definition of elitism.

Collective decisions have been a valuable tool of humanity since the stone age. There's never been such a thing as universal agreement on any significant scale, but people go along with the collective decisions because they value their membership in the organization over whatever differences they have in the collective decisions that are being made.

The problem is of course that you're not allowed to remove yourself from the organization if you disagree. That's the problem, and that's where the coercion lies.

The coercion isn't in the collective decisions: those exist in a free world and have always existed and will always exist.

Whatever objection you have to these tariffs, your much stronger objection should be to the slavery by which you are held personally captive.

If I had it my way, you'd be able to individually secede and you'd never have to deal with any of these tariffs ever again. (You'd probably re-join America within 2 weeks because you lack the trade agreements to buy simple things such as toasters, but at least you'd have the option to secede.)

 

[PAF]

People on this forum like to say central planning is always bad well it's not.

Pretty much everything difficult and good that has ever been done by humans was done via some form of central planning.

It's not always bad.

You mean like masking during covid, FedDeptEd, bans/restrictions on products, and stuff like that? Or do you mean things like when presidents provoke and go to war, when Romney said we should stick together as a nation, even though Ron Paul eloquently debated that?

 

[TheTexan]

You mean like masking during covid, FedDeptEd, bans/restrictions on products, and stuff like that? Or do you mean things like when presidents provoke and go to war, when Romney said we should stick together as a nation, even though Ron Paul eloquently debated that?

Honestly the masking wasn't even central planning. People were scared and stupid and they were gonna wear those stupid masks no matter what anybody said. They wanted to wear those stupid masks, no central planning required, besides the central planning required to actually create the fucking virus because yes that was centrally planned

 

[PAF]

Honestly the masking wasn't even central planning. People were scared and stupid and they were gonna wear those stupid masks no matter what anybody said. They wanted to wear those stupid masks, no central planning required, besides the central planning required to actually create the fucking virus because yes that was centrally planned

What about the other stuff?

 

[TheTexan]

What about the other stuff?

Well I did say, that central planning isnt always bad. That would seem to imply that yea, central planning is usually bad.

 

[Snowball]

I've come full circle, after over 35 years now, back to a Pat Buchanan "America First" nativist, nationalist, populist.

Yes, I have been a fan since 1985.
We were made to watch The McLaughlin Group every Friday in economics class when I was a senior in high school. I supported him in '92 and also voted for Perot the same year in the general.

I miss reading his articles and hearing him. He's alive but retired for health reasons. Zero output in over two years now.

Patrick J. Buchanan - Official Website

Pat Buchanan - Right From the Beginning

buchanan.org

 

[PAF]

Well I did say, that central planning isnt always bad. That would seem to imply that yea, central planning is usually bad.

So if you could only pick one answer, would you choose pro-central planning, or anti-central planning? To me it's like priming the pump, once you give in to one thing, it follows through to the next. Like communism does.

 

[TheTexan]

So if you could only pick one answer, would you choose pro-central planning, or anti-central planning? To me it's like priming the pump, once you give in to one thing, it follows through to the next. Like communism does.

Well, if we're talking the two extremes, between Fascist Germany, and the entire absence of any organizations whatsoever, honestly that's a difficult decision.

I'd probably rather live in Fascist Germany, than live in a cabin made out of twigs in the woods. But still, difficult decision.

 

[nikcers]

The choice is never central planning or no central planning.

The choice is always democracy or autocracy. Self rule or rule by autocrats..

Pure decentralization if it were competitive there would probably be a historical example.

Civilizations that don't work together to protect the future they want end up conquered like Tibet.

 

[Voluntarist]

People on this forum like to say central planning is always bad well it's not.

Pretty much everything difficult and good that has ever been done by humans was done via some form of central planning.

It's not always bad.

I no longer see a difference between this place and Democratic Underground

 

[TheTexan]

I no longer see a difference between this place and Democratic Underground

 

[Voluntarist]

We’re supposedly entering a manufacturing Renaissance.
Manufacturing is supposed to come back to the United States.
Elon Musk has a 20,000 worker factory in Shanghai
And a 12,000 worker factory in Berlin.
When those get repurposed back to the United States, this will be an incredible success.
Until that time it’s an absolute failure.

Anyone taking bets?

 

[spudea]

I no longer see a difference between this place and Democratic Underground

You seem to be arguing for the anarchist point of view. But there is a proper moral role for government that is worth advocating for.

 

[TheTexan]

We’re supposedly entering a manufacturing Renaissance.

News to me

 

[69360]

I see Ron's point, but manufacturing and trade has become so lopsided, I can see the Trump point as well. Perhaps a middle ground can be found. I think a case could be made that the lack of manufacturing could become a national security issue as well.

 

[nikcers]

News to me

Manufacturing costs are extremely energy intensive and energy is lower in real costs than ever.

This has traditionally been known to have a strict correlation. When energy prices go up factories close down.

If you have unlimited energy like we have in this country then you can build anything.

 

[PAF]

'Devaluing the US Dollar: How to Make America Poorer Again'

Apr 7, 2025

Mises Wire
Daniel Lacalle
04/07/2025


In recent days, we have read numerous articles about a possible agreement between the US administration and its main trading partners to devalue the US dollar. It has been named “The Mar-A-Lago Accord”, a concept inspired by the Plaza Accord of 1985, which aimed to devalue the US dollar to address trade imbalances. That plan failed.

The objective, according to the financial media, would be to weaken the US dollar, boost US export competitiveness, and rebalance global trade. Another proposal involves restructuring US debt by swapping...

• PAF
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Economy & Markets

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[Voluntarist]

You seem to be arguing for the anarchist point of view. But there is a proper moral role for government that is worth advocating for.

Yeah, to stay the fuck out of my life and out of my decision-making process. It's not government's job to encourage me to make what it considers to be the "right decisions" in commerce, my investing, my medical decisions or anything else that concerns my personal existence.