Ron Paul: The Case For Free Trade

[nikcers]

The government stick is fine so long as it's being used to beat people outside your "clique". Unfortunately, cyclical elections eventually put the government stick in the hands of other cliques, and then your clique starts complaining about "government being in the way".

We don't like it when our businesses get beat by other government sticks.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

 

[Voluntarist]

We don't like it when our businesses get beat by other government sticks.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Your businesses aren't being beaten by other governments' sticks. They're being beaten by the decision made by individuals within the collective of "your own citizens" to purchase the products coming from those other countries. You're using tariffs to try to coerce those individuals into doing what you consider "the right thing", rather than, of course, trying to convince them to do so by non-coercive means. Sounds pretty elitist, actually. - like something you'd normally accuse Democrats of doing. We must force them to choose the correct products, comrade.

But, muh tariffs.

 

[TheTexan]

Your businesses aren't being beaten by other governments' sticks. They're being beaten by the decision made by individuals within the collective of "your own citizens" to purchase the products coming from those other countries. You're using tariffs to try to coerce those individuals into doing what you consider "the right thing", rather than, of course, trying to convince them to do so by non-coercive means. Sounds pretty elitist, actually. - like something you'd normally accuse Democrats of doing. We must force them to choose the correct products, comrade.

But, muh tariffs.

Okay but what's the solution?

Or are you one of those people that doesn't think this is a problem?

 

[Voluntarist]

Okay but what's the solution?
Or are you one of those people that doesn't think this is a problem?

Is "this" a pronoun for Trump? Gotta ask, because I'm not very good with these new age pronouns that you Texans are famous for. ... Sorry, I try, but I'll never reach the professional levels of facetiousness that has come to be defined as a synonym for TheTexan.

"The solution" requires a problem to be defined, and I just couldn't tell what the problem you perceived was from what you wrote. It's a thread on Ron Paul's case for "Free Markets". Maybe you're defining "Free Markets" as the problem. I just couldn't tell from your inquiry. Going back through all these tariff threads, I see a number of things that posters seem to classify as problems:
- Inequitable trade between countries (can you believe that conservatives are describing "lack of equity" as a problem?)
- Maintaining the US industrial base
- Maintaining the income level of blue collar workers in the US.
- The perception, by consumers, that products made in the US aren't worth what's being charged for them
- Competing against "slave labor"

I suppose there's others. What do you define the problem as?

 

[unknown]

The cost wont be that high because of modernized manufacturing technologies automation and AI.

The price wont even be that high since there will be competition to sell microwaves and competition to bring manufacturing prices down.

That's not a good argument.

Once production is automated, fully automated, other than the initial cost of the machinery, the labor cost is eliminated, minus the cost of maintenance.

Manufacturing can take place anywhere so long as the materials are available.

That's not anytime soon.

 

[spudea]

life isn't a fucking econ 101 textbook. If we outlaw slave labor and a different country doesn't, econ 101 says the slavery country should produce all the goods because it's cheaper and more efficient. Chinese people live under a brutal communist dictatorship. and the dumb free traders response is either "do nothing because we benefit from cheap child slave labor goods", or even worse "just compete better and be more like China!". You dumb fucks, that's exactly what the radical Marxists revolutionaries want, they want USA to be more like communist China and they will burn the constitution to do it.

 

[TheTexan]

Is "this" a pronoun for Trump? Gotta ask, because I'm not very good with these new age pronouns that you Texans are famous for. ... Sorry, I try, but I'll never reach the professional levels of facetiousness that has come to be defined as a synonym for TheTexan.

"The solution" requires a problem to be defined, and I just couldn't tell what the problem you perceived was from what you wrote. It's a thread on Ron Paul's case for "Free Markets". Maybe you're defining "Free Markets" as the problem. I just couldn't tell from your inquiry. Going back through all these tariff threads, I see a number of things that posters seem to classify as problems:
- Inequitable trade between countries (can you believe that conservatives are describing "lack of equity" as a problem?)
- Maintaining the US industrial base
- Maintaining the income level of blue collar workers in the US.
- The perception, by consumers, that products made in the US aren't worth what's being charged for them
- Competing against "slave labor"

I suppose there's others. What do you define the problem as?

The 2nd one. "Maintaining the US industrial base".

The American economy is stagnating/dying because it is no longer capable of producing wealth. A country that cannot produce wealth is neither sovereign nor sustainable.

Our economy is in death throes, and what little economy that sustains us is built entirely off debt.

If this is what the "free market" looks like, then I don't want it.

 

[TheTexan]

life isn't a fucking econ 101 textbook. If we outlaw slave labor and a different country doesn't, econ 101 says the slavery country should produce all the goods because it's cheaper and more efficient. Chinese people live under a brutal communist dictatorship. and the dumb free traders response is either "do nothing because we benefit from cheap child slave labor goods", or even worse "just compete better and be more like China!". You dumb fucks, that's exactly what the radical Marxists revolutionaries want, they want USA to be more like communist China and they will burn the constitution to do it.

Then there's also the Chinese subsidies. They knew that if they could just use subsidies to steal the factories, they could jumpstart their economy and put America in a weakened position. It worked brilliantly.

America is now in such a weakened state, that factories in America can't be profitable even if our labor costs were zero. The cost of parts and materials is just too high, because they're all made in China.

It's become a circular problem: America has no factories, because it has no factories.

Which is exactly what China was aiming for.

 

[Swordsmyth]

You know the answer to that. It was "free trade", not free trade.

And it was never "real communism" either.

 

[Swordsmyth]

How is it then, that after 50 years now of "free trade" we have not been at peace during any one of those years, our armies are across the globe and in scores of countries, we are $37 trillion in the hole, technically bankrupt and on the verge of WW3.

Trade causes wars, like the opium wars.

The opium wars started because China exported to Europe but refused to buy anything from Europe, the entire European silver supply was getting drained from the trade deficit so the Europeans found something the Chinese would buy, opium, when the Chinese cracked down on drugs because it was rotting their society but still refused to buy anything else from Europe the Europeans declared war.

It would have been smarter to tariff or embargo China, but tea was also an addictive drug and the European economy was also dependent on various imports from China in other ways.

Europe should have been charging tariffs to limit trade from the beginning and avoided the silver drain and the economic dependence.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Blame the fed and all of the regulations. We have not had "Free Trade" in decades and decades. And "Free Trade" does not necessitate the "other side" to do it either. There are articles on Mises . org that explain all of this.

"Wasn't real communism" doesn't cut it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Since the Biden/Trump "My Tariffs Are Better Than Yours", and what I'm spending on eggs lately, I can't build any wealth at all. I'm on the losing end of the stick.

What ever happened to "government get the f&ck out of the way"?

Egg prices were caused by destroying domestic production.

 

[Swordsmyth]

https://ronpaulforums.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FqvWNJ5LM%2FCat.png&hash=328178b4eca49e2f636014b56dcf8a07

And that's the real motive, along with draining wealth from the average man in developed countries for the international .1%.

 

[Swordsmyth]

life isn't a fucking econ 101 textbook. If we outlaw slave labor and a different country doesn't, econ 101 says the slavery country should produce all the goods because it's cheaper and more efficient. Chinese people live under a brutal communist dictatorship. and the dumb free traders response is either "do nothing because we benefit from cheap child slave labor goods", or even worse "just compete better and be more like China!". You dumb fucks, that's exactly what the radical Marxists revolutionaries want, they want USA to be more like communist China and they will burn the constitution to do it.

Libertarians who own stocks think they will continue to be in the ruling class and benefit from our slavery when "free trade" has reduced us to the same level as Chinese slaves.
They will be the first against the wall when the coup is complete.

 

[acptulsa]

Libertarians... will be the first against the wall when the coup is complete.

Threats, now. So pleasant to have you drop by and visit.

Psychopath.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Threats, now. So pleasant to have you drop by and visit.

Psychopath.

LOL

It's clear I'm warning you about the globalcommunists whom you are enabling.
They always put the useful idiots up against the wall first, every time.

 

[familydog]

Just to make sure there's no confusion on which side of this Ron Paul is on:

https://mises.org/free-market/case-free-trade

Cool. Ron Paul is an American hero, but heroes aren't perfect.

If you're a Millennial or Zoomer living in the rural rust belt, then you've seen first hand how free trade and unfettered free markets have hallowed out your lives and culture.

 

[PAF]

Cool. Ron Paul is an American hero, but heroes aren't perfect.

If you're a Millennial or Zoomer living in the rural rust belt, then you've seen first hand how free trade and unfettered free markets have hallowed out your lives and culture.

Are you a Bush-era neoconservative?

Ron Paul: Sadly, President Trump has adopted a tariff policy that will raise prices and abandoned his “America First” foreign policy in favor of a return to Bush-era neoconservatism.

Btw, I do live in the rural rust belt, but I am not a Bush-era neoconservative.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Are you a Bush-era neoconservative?



Btw, I do live in the rural rust belt, but I am not a Bush-era neoconservative.

Absolutely he is not, they believe in free trade.

 

[PAF]

Absolutely he is not, they believe in free trade.

Let me guess: "Ron is Wrong", again?