Ron Paul: Our Liberties Come From Our Creator

[nbhadja]

I think you are glorifying things a bit. I don't think the individual would have been as free in those times as he was in the founder's era.

Why not? They did not have to deal with government, courts, laws, taxes, money etc. They did not have to work their lives away to survive in their society. Also every individual had rights, unlike the slavery in the founders era. Now that's real freedom.

Not to mention they lived that way for countless generations while the constitutional US government was hijacked very shortly after it's creation. They had sustainable freedom.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Nature is greater than the government as well. It is greater than the constitution. '

Did I claim that I believe we are here by random chance? You are creating a false argument by assuming I am some evolution believer just like leftists assume the person they are arguing is a rightist and how a rightist assumes the person they are arguing with is a leftist.

I don't believe in a "god" but I believe in nature, and the universe. It is not as black and white as saying "he believes in god" or "he believes that we are here by random chance".

I am spiritual but I do not believe in god. Keep in mind that spirituality is much older than religion and does not require the belief in "god".

My rights come from nature. They are universal rights. They are natural rights. They do not come from the goverment or god. Government is a man made invention. I don't even believe in the concept of government or the constitution.

But if nature is just chance interactions between particles, then it doesn't provide a good basis for rights. In that case, your rights do come from government because nothing else can grant them to you; not even nature. However, if God does exist, then He holds power over all nations and over all governments. Therefore, we truly can say that our rights are greater than government. Ron Paul realizes this and the founding fathers realized this. Saying they only believed in God because they didn't know as much as we do about science is to insult their intelligence.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Ah yes, damn those secular schools for not forcing kids to read the Bible!

FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!! YEA!!!!!!

That's not at all what he meant. Public schools now are geared toward a secular education. Evolution is the only thing taught in schools today, and even lies such as Ernst Haekel's faked embryo drawings are used as evidence for it in the textbooks. You would have a lot of good science without evolution, so you don't need that. It is a useless theory. I don't want to put religion into schools, I just want the lies taken out. A better idea would be to get rid of public schools entirely. Keep in mind that we are paying our tax dollars to be taught lies in school. They should get rid of the lies and stop teaching origins in school altogether.

 

[Ranger29860]

You would have a lot of good science without evolution, so you don't need that. It is a useless theory.

So nothing has come from the understanding of evolution? Not a single practical purpose? There is no thing in existence were in the entirety of science and modern day life that the theory of evolution did not help along?

*edit*
had to edit quote correction

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

That's not at all what he meant. Public schools now are geared toward a secular education. Evolution is the only thing taught in schools today, and even lies such as Ernst Haekel's faked embryo drawings are used as evidence for it in the textbooks. You would have a lot of good science without evolution, so you don't need that. It is a useless theory. I don't want to put religion into schools, I just want the lies taken out. A better idea would be to get rid of public schools entirely. Keep in mind that we are paying our tax dollars to be taught lies in school. They should get rid of the lies and stop teaching origins in school altogether.

The evidence for evolution is quite strong. Schools, whomever is running them, should attempt to impart the truth. And a preponderance of evidence supports evolution as the best description for the development of life on Earth. The fact that some of evolution's evidence may have been fraudulent does not change the fact that it offers a better defined and developed explanation that any other currently available.

 

[Ranger29860]

evidence supports evolution as the best description for the development of life on Earth. .

I emphasize this cause i know this is coming he said DEVELOPMENT not the original origin. I have seen astounding ignorance surrounding evolutionary theory and this is one of the things someone here is going to jump on.

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

I emphasize this cause i know this is coming he said DEVELOPMENT not the original origin. I have seen astounding ignorance surrounding evolutionary theory and this is one of the things someone here is going to jump on.

I now I'm jumping into the fire here, but I really do not understand why there is such profound aversion to the acceptance of the theory of evolution. It really does not have a strong religious implication, and the theory should not be scorned just because Dawkins et al present it so aggressively.

 

[AZKing]

That's not at all what he meant. Public schools now are geared toward a secular education. Evolution is the only thing taught in schools today, and even lies such as Ernst Haekel's faked embryo drawings are used as evidence for it in the textbooks. You would have a lot of good science without evolution, so you don't need that. It is a useless theory. I don't want to put religion into schools, I just want the lies taken out. A better idea would be to get rid of public schools entirely. Keep in mind that we are paying our tax dollars to be taught lies in school. They should get rid of the lies and stop teaching origins in school altogether.

I always find it quite interesting how you guys put so much emphasis on evolution being taught, like it's the only thing that's taught in biology. It's covered for about a week in most schools and then kids forget about it, just like most of the things that are taught in school.

You would have a lot of good science without evolution, so you don't need that.

You would also have a lot of good science without gravity, so you don't need that.

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

I always find it quite interesting how you guys put so much emphasis on evolution being taught, like it's the only thing that's taught in biology. It's covered for about a week in most schools and then kids forget about it, just like most of the things that are taught in school.

You would also have a lot of good science without gravity, so you don't need that.

Hell, why not just throw out physics altogether?

 

[Ranger29860]

I now I'm jumping into the fire here, but I really do not understand why there is such profound aversion to the acceptance of the theory of evolution. It really does not have a strong religious implication, and the theory should not be scorned just because Dawkins et al present it so aggressively.

What a lot of people i have talked to about evolution seem to misunderstand is that they say there is no practical purpose for evolution at all.
This is demonstrably false. Antibiotics only work today because of the understanding of natural selection and mutation. Molecular biology is not my strong suit though so i can not really get technical in it.

But what is my strong suit is computer programming. Most of modern day programs could not come into existence without the process of natural selection having validity as a theory of way to weed out bad functions.

Natural selection is applied to almost anything that get produced in the world, it is by far the most efficient way to operate in almost any field. Hell a free market its based on the idea of natural selection. Companies compete by producing better and cheaper products. While the consumer weeds out the bad products and only the good companies survive that are most suited for their chosen market.

If you do not teach kids the idea of complexity from simplicity then you do them a disservice

 

[Ranger29860]

Hell, why not just throw out physics altogether?

Nope just teach the controversy ... Physics vs. god did it

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

What a lot of people i have talked to about evolution seem to misunderstand is that they say there is no practical purpose for evolution at all.
This is demonstrably false. Antibiotics only work today because of the understanding of natural selection and mutation. Molecular biology is not my strong suit though so i can not really get technical in it.

But what is my strong suit is computer programming. Most of modern day programs could not come into existence without the process of natural selection having validity as a theory of way to weed out bad functions.

Natural selection is applied to almost anything that get produced in the world, it is by far the most efficient way to operate in almost any field. Hell a free market its based on the idea of natural selection. Companies compete by producing better and cheaper products. While the consumer weeds out the bad products and only the good companies survive that are most suited for their chosen market.

If you do not teach kids the idea of complexity from simplicity then you do them a disservice

Pesticides and other advances too. And then we get into things like evolutionary psychology as well, which presents some interesting insights into human action and nature.

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

Nope just teach the controversy ... Physics vs. god did it

I'm surprised no one have jumped in. I like discussing this with people, especially those who disagree. I think the problem with the theory of evolution currently, is that its most prominent advocates are so blatantly anti-theistic, when the theory doesn't really have anything to do with that.

 

[Ranger29860]

I'm surprised no one have jumped in. I like discussing this with people, especially those who disagree. I think the problem with the theory of evolution currently, is that its most prominent advocates are so blatantly anti-theistic, when the theory doesn't really have anything to do with that.

I see you have joined pretty recently, This discussion comes up every week or two but usually gets dumped down to hot topics.

 

[Ex Lux lucis]

I see you have joined pretty recently, This discussion comes up every week or two but usually gets dumped down to hot topics.

I still really don't understand how people can mount a credible challenge

 

[Theocrat]

I Need More Details

Nature.

Could you be more specific about what in nature tells us that we have rights?

 

[Theocrat]

Exactly

I think he's asking you what your rational justification is for the existence of natural rights. Just saying "They come from nature" doesn't really provide justification or evidence as to why they exist.

Thank you for that insight.

 

[Ranger29860]

Could you be more specific about what in nature tells us that we have rights?

THIS IS A SARCASTIC POST DO NOT TAKE THE FOLLOWING SERIOUSLY

If something tells you, you have rights then you don't have rights

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So nothing has come from the understanding of evolution? Not a single practical purpose? There is no thing in existence were in the entirety of science and modern day life that the theory of evolution did not help along?

*edit*
had to edit quote correction

That is correct.

People say our understanding of mutation and adaptation, such as in bacteria, but that is not the same thing as evolution. The terminology gets really fuzzy, but equating mutation and natural selection to the millions of years process of evolution from an amoeba to a man is just blatantly distorted and false. You can teach about mutations and natural selection without ever mentioning evolution as a unifying theory of the history of the earth.

For instance, I would come to the same conclusion about mutation and natural selection from a biblical perspective. The theory just isn't necessary, so leave it out of schools. Better yet, get rid of public schools. Parents should have the right to decide what their kids are taught. Otherwise, it's just indoctrination.

 

[Ranger29860]

That is correct.

Have you ever taken antibiotics?