Ron Paul on Snowden: Government calls him a criminal; I call him a hero

[Anti Federalist]

Fair enough. But that's why Rand is a respected Senator and we're keyboard jockeys.

Congress, assembled, has approval ratings hovering around 9 percent.

That is below used car salesmen and lawyers.

Not what I would consider "respect".

I wonder how much that might change, were some to take courageous stands and speak the truth, with clarity, conviction and moral certitude.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Why All Politicians Lie

http://reason.com/archives/2012/11/06/why-all-politicians-lie

 

[cajuncocoa]

I gotcha covered Cajun.

Thanks, Cap!

 

[jmdrake]

"Edward Snowden did the bravest thing any American can do...he woke us up. Our government calls him a criminal, well I call him a hero."

Sadly, Ron, your own son thinks he should be "put in a cage", "broken" and "tortured"...only for a little while though.

Ron >>>> Rand

Ron is no longer muzzled. I hope this means Ron will come out and more openly support people like Ed and Elaine Brown as well.

 

[jmdrake]

Every now and then, Rand does something to make me suspect that we might very well become the thing we're fighting against.

I've said it a bazillion times. We as a movement have always looked at Ron as Gandalf. Well Rand is Frodo. The "bearer of the ring" has to disguise himself as an orc to get through enemy lines. But there is a real danger of being seduced by the power of the ring. Rand could put it on and not want to take it off rather than throwing in the fires of Mt. Mordor to destroy it. Now the real question is, is Jesse Benton Sam Gamgy or is he Gollum? Or maybe Mitch McConnell is Gollum?

 

[tod evans]

I've said it a bazillion times. We as a movement have always looked at Ron as Gandalf. Well Rand is Frodo.

It's been well over 40 years since I read Tolkien...

Thanks for the trip down memory lane...

 

[jmdrake]

Follow along with me...

Rand sez:

A - He broke the law. (A flat out statement on his part)

B - There are penalties for breaking the law. (Yes, in this case, based on the court indictment, there are mandatory minimum prison sentences)

C - Snowden should be prosecuted for breaking the law.

Therefore, based on Rand's own words, he broke the law, should be prosecuted for that, it is assumed there is prima facie evidence of guilt, in which case he will be found guilty and he will go to prison.

Now, ya'll can spin until you vomit, but that's the facts of what he said, period.

You know what? You are exactly right. Here's the part you left out.

“I don’t think Edward Snowden deserves the death penalty or life in prison, I think that’s inappropriate, and I think that’s why he fled, because that’s what he faced,” Paul told George Stephanopoulos on “This Week” Sunday. “Do I think that it’s okay to leak secrets and give up national secrets and things that could endanger lives? I don’t think that’s okay either, but I think the courts are now saying that what he revealed was something the government was doing was illegal.”

Paul compared Snowden’s law-breaking to the controversial testimony of Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who previously testified before Congress that the NSA did not collect data from American citizens intentionally.

“I don’t think we can selectively apply the law. So James Clapper did break the law and there is a prison sentence for that. So did Edward Snowden,” Paul said.

Let's see. So Snowden shouldn't be treated any differently than Clapper. Any chance of Clapper being prosecuted? And Rand is going with the "Courts are saying the activities Snowden revealed were themselves illegal." What I'd love to hear, but probably won't, is "If the courts ultimately determine that everything revealed was actually illegal, then nothing should happen to Snowden."

That said, there's little a senator Paul can do for Snowden. A president Paul could pardon him. Currently Rand's political "reach the teocons" strategy doesn't allow for the type of honesty most of us would like. When Ron was running in 2012 and criticized the raid that "killed" Osama Bin Laden, I knew that wouldn't go over well. (And frankly I don't think that was even fully truthful. The full truth is that Osama Bin Laden was probably not even killed in that raid. There has been no proof of death released.) With the majority of Americans, not just republicans, so dumbed down that they think Snowden should be charged, taking a stand on this is about as politically expedient as taking a stand that 9/11 was likely an inside job.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Holy Leatherface, Batman! That is an image I did NOT need to see!

 

[jmdrake]

Holy Leatherface, Batman! That is an image I did NOT need to see!

LOL. Someone with better photoshop skills than me please fix this!

 

[Henry Rogue]

Holy Leatherface, Batman! That is an image I did NOT need to see!

Sh!t, I just spit coffee on my screen and keyboard. Laughed till out of breath.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Ron is no longer muzzled. I hope this means Ron will come out and more openly support people like Ed and Elaine Brown as well.

Yeah, me too.

That's a couple of politicals I would like to see out the gulag before they die.

 

[limequat]

Ermahgerd we can't go and take a stance that is actually right for fear of alienating half the Fox News base, now can we? What a bunch of weak, cowardly, bullshit.

No, it's called politics. Rand Paul is running for president. The few thousand of us RPF-ers isn't enough to elect a dogcatcher. If we want Rand to gain national support, he has to play the game. Get over it.

There's not a chance in hell you will actually elect your little, neutered, neo-con lite (Rand)anyways,

Oh, really? Wow, what do you really think? Rand has been elected to the U.S. Senate in a randslide. He is generally considered a frontrunner. Why would you say there's "no chance in hell"? If Rand is a neocon-lite, go ahead and continue to vote libertarian and see where it gets you. Talk about no chance in hell...

so don't talk condescendingly towards people who are not going to play your little bullshit "game". If you think that Snowden deserves 1 day in jail, then you can go fuck yourself.

Nice. Personally, I do not believe that Snowden deserves anything less than 61 virgins feeding him grapes. Sorry if I came of condescending.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

No it doesn't, but in this case it is clear that "he broke the law", according to Rand.

So, in a case where a conviction of violation of USC 793 and 798 results in a mandatory minimum prison term (last time I checked), then there can be no doubt that Rand approves of and thinks a prison term is deserved.

Period.

No, it does not mean Rand thinks a prison term is deserved. It means he thinks he should be tried, the outcome of which cannot be determined right now. He did not say that Snowden should be found guilty.

Period.

What's fucking dishonest is quoting words that I never said in this thread and then claiming I said Rand said that.

RON says, in his video presentation, government would like nothing more than to "break his spirit", "put him in a cage", where he will be "tortured".

At :50

https://www.facebook.com/RonPaulCha...BG&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SnowdenNote

Calm down, dude. I included the caveat, "as I have no doubt you would word it". This accomplishes two things:
1) It makes it clear that this is a hypothetical and that you did not actually say those words.
2) It says "the way YOU would word it", so I am separating your words from Rand Paul's and clarifying the fact that, in this hypothetical situation, I think YOU, specifically, would word it that way. I wasn't misquoting you because I made it clear that I wasn't quoting you directly.

What Ron says I agree with. That IS what they want to do to him. This does not necessarily mean Rand Paul believes the same thing.

 

[EBounding]

Rand's taken a neutral stance on Snowden. It sucks, but it denies his political enemies a soundbite of him calling a "Russian spy" a hero. I get that Snowden's the whole reason that Rand's suing the NSA and pushing reforms, but his enemies and the media don't care. They'll spin anything he says to try and discredit what he's doing.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Rand's taken a neutral stance on Snowden. It sucks, but it denies his political enemies a soundbite of him calling a "Russian spy" a hero. I get that Snowden's the whole reason that Rand's suing the NSA and pushing reforms, but his enemies and the media don't care. They'll spin anything he says to try and discredit what he's doing.

True that. There are definitely good reasons for him not to express his love for Snowden if he has any. I remain convinced that he believes Snowden did the right thing and is simply not showing it because of the political consequences.

 

[Cap]

LOL. Someone with better photoshop skills than me please fix this!

 

[Dogsoldier]

What will be interesting is when Rand is president and does something that Ron Paul or us doesn't agree with...When they ask Ron about it will he support Rand or say he is wrong?

 

[jmdrake]

Thy photoshop wizardry be much better than mine. Take this +rep as a small token of my appreciation.

 

[Anti Federalist]

No, it does not mean Rand thinks a prison term is deserved. It means he thinks he should be tried, the outcome of which cannot be determined right now. He did not say that Snowden should be found guilty.

Ed Snowden is a hero and patriot and he deserves thanks and praise, not prosecution or prison.

I have an issue with anyone who thinks or says otherwise, for any reason.

 

[twomp]

Hands out PROOF that the government is spying and infringing on everyone's rights. Gets labeled a traitor deserving of prison time. Only in America, land of the free!