Ron Paul is an isolationist.

[lester1/2jr]

being against any war means you are an isolationist and an anti semite

this is you if you are anti war

 

[YumYum]

Weird how liberals and conservatives who promote ludicrously stupid, autarchist ideas like "energy independence" are never accused of isolationism..

Great point!!

 

[catdd]

Well, I would prefer every neighbor on my block was an "isolationist" rather than busy-bodies.

 

[Bucjason]

If you want to engage in trade with other countries, doesn't it become impossible not to also become interventionist at some point??

Say for example you trade with Country A , and Country A provides you with most of the oil you depend on. Then Country B attacks Country A ... doesn't it then become hard to stay neutral , when the attack effects your ability to trade and therefore your economy also ??

Trade naturally leads to alliances, which naturally leads to interventionism.

It's naive to think things are always as black and white and some of you seem to make it out to be...

 

[catdd]

Everyone wants to trade, you are not forcing it or invading anyone's space. It's more of a relationship rather than intervention.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

this thread is noobie central

 

[catdd]

this thread is noobie central

Why do you say that? Don't you have anything important to contribute?

 

[Bucjason]

Still hoping someone can explain to me how you get involved in international trade, and rely on it as major part of your economy, and not eventually get caught in the middle of some international entanglement...

I think you can't have it both ways . You either have to be totally isolationist , or be interventionist. International trade ,in itself, is a form of intervening , because some countries have more to offer you than others. Some can offer you nothing. This simple engagement helps the tradees economies , hurts others, forms alliances , forms resentments, etc. etc.

 

[YumYum]

Why do you say that? Don't you have anything important to contribute?

No, if he did he would be an interventionist.

 

[dannno]

I think what some people are missing is that a Ron Paul style Federal Government would allow private enterprise to contract and make economic commitments with those of other nations without the GOVERNMENT making contracts and economic commitments to other nations...

A true isolationist country would take steps towards PREVENTING private enterprise from interacting and making contracts and economic commitments with foreign countries.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Ron Paul: Trade Wars and Protectionism are not Free Trade 9/21/09

 

[Elwar]

Ok, then if we take the definition from wikipedia:

it asserts both of the following:

1. Non-interventionism – Political rulers should avoid entangling alliances with other nations and avoid all wars not related to direct territorial self-defense.
2. Protectionism – There should be legal barriers to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other states.

Then he is as isolationist as anyone who wants trade agreements...

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Ron Paul on Free Trade - Lou Dobbs/CNN

 

[dannno]

I think what some people are missing is that a Ron Paul style Federal Government would allow private enterprise to contract and make economic commitments with those of other nations without the GOVERNMENT making contracts and economic commitments to other nations...

A true isolationist country would take steps towards PREVENTING private enterprise from interacting and making contracts and economic commitments with foreign countries.

I think the main reason people have this issue is because they still have that predisposition that Government has to be involved in everything. Having this discussion is a great exercise in helping to unlearn these ideas that have been trained into our heads.


Bottom line: Ron Paul is not an isolationist.

 

[Elwar]

If you want to engage in trade with other countries, doesn't it become impossible not to also become interventionist at some point??

Say for example you trade with Country A , and Country A provides you with most of the oil you depend on. Then Country B attacks Country A ... doesn't it then become hard to stay neutral , when the attack effects your ability to trade and therefore your economy also ??

Trade naturally leads to alliances, which naturally leads to interventionism.

It's naive to think things are always as black and white and some of you seem to make it out to be...

No, because with an open market you can just go to another country for your resources, or not have those resources.

I used to take my clothes to a laundry mat that washed and folded my clothes for 25 cents a pound. It was a great service for a single guy. When the restaurant next to them wanted to expand, the strip mall decided to kick them out to make room for the expansion. There was no other laundry mat that provided such a service in my town. I didn't attack the strip mall in retaliation for losing my laundry service. I ended up just doing my own laundry.

If a country that supplies your oil is attacked...you start relying on your own oil production or cut down to the point of not using oil if there are no other sources. Supply will tend to meet demand though.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

No, because with an open market you can just go to another country for your resources, or not have those resources.

I used to take my clothes to a laundry mat that washed and folded my clothes for 25 cents a pound. It was a great service for a single guy. When the restaurant next to them wanted to expand, the strip mall decided to kick them out to make room for the expansion. There was no other laundry mat that provided such a service in my town. I didn't attack the strip mall in retaliation for losing my laundry service. I ended up just doing my own laundry.

If a country that supplies your oil is attacked...you start relying on your own oil production or cut down to the point of not using oil if there are no other sources. Supply will tend to meet demand though.

so then explain to me why you think Paul is an isolationist?

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Isolationism vs Non-Interventionism: Ron paul Explains

 

[Bucjason]

No, because with an open market you can just go to another country for your resources, or not have those resources.

I used to take my clothes to a laundry mat that washed and folded my clothes for 25 cents a pound. It was a great service for a single guy. When the restaurant next to them wanted to expand, the strip mall decided to kick them out to make room for the expansion. There was no other laundry mat that provided such a service in my town. I didn't attack the strip mall in retaliation for losing my laundry service. I ended up just doing my own laundry.

If a country that supplies your oil is attacked...you start relying on your own oil production or cut down to the point of not using oil if there are no other sources. Supply will tend to meet demand though.

Who knows , if you had a tank at your disposal , and no one to stop you from using it ( and more than 25 cents was at stake), maybe you would have tried to stop the mall people.

But you did your own laundry ..exactly ! You became self-sufficient.

So, wouldn't the smartest move be to become as totally self-sufficient as possible?? Drill for our own oil , manufacture our own goods , etc ?? Then we could truly be non-interventionist...

 

[Elwar]

so then explain to me why you think Paul is an isolationist?

Simply based on the dictionary.com definition. Though by the wikipedia.com definition he is not.

And then there's Websters:
a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations

The key gray area for all of the definitions is the economic portion.
dictionary.com: declining foreign economic commitments
wikipedia.com: legal barriers to control trade
websters: abstention from economic relations

 

[Bucjason]

I think the main reason people have this issue is because they still have that predisposition that Government has to be involved in everything. Having this discussion is a great exercise in helping to unlearn these ideas that have been trained into our heads.


Bottom line: Ron Paul is not an isolationist.

This is a good point , but at the same time , if most of our private gas companies are buying thier oil from the same country, and that country gets attacked and thier becomes a oil shortage, it is still going to crash our entire economy .

At which point , the government will step in and probably go to war.