Reality Check: Why all RNC delegates are 'Free Agents' and unbound

[Number19]

If this were to be true, do how good of a chance do we have at getting 50% of the delegates? Obviously in the caucus states where (to me) it seems like becoming a delegate is an easier process, we are getting the majority of them. But 3/4 of the states are primaries and I feel it would still be hard to get half of them.

I don't think anyone has answered your question. Taking Texas as an example, even though we are a primary state, following the primary vote (normally, this year was an oddity for Texas) you have a precinct convention, followed by a county/district convention and then the state convention. These conventions are quite similar to caucuses and liberty delegates can be chosen at each stage. Because of the redistricting mess this year, here in Texas we have already held our county/district conventions and selected our delegates to go the the state convention which will be held starting June 8, following our May 29 primary. We will be fighting to have a majority of the delegates going on to Tampa.

Now, can anyone shed some light on my question. I've been told, I don't know if accurately or whether it may apply to other states, that the Texas delegation does not actually "vote" the first ballot. Based on the primary vote, the head of the Texas delegation will stand and cast our vote proportionately to the primary vote totals. Like I said, I don't know if this is accurate, or common. Any comments?

 

[sailingaway]

If the RNC has 2 rules that contradict each other, how can we get them to follow the rule that benefits us (not requiring delegates to be bound)? That's where I'm stuck. Everyone is saying "we will win....no delegates are bound"...but how can we get the RNC to actually go that way, when they have another rule saying "bound delegates must vote for the cadidate they're bound to on the first ballot."

How the RNC interprets it is different than what are the rules. Depending on how many delegates we have there, we have a better or worse chance. IMHO this discussion is premature to getting the delegates there.

 

[sailingaway]

I don't think anyone has answered your question. Taking Texas as an example, even though we are a primary state, following the primary vote (normally, this year was an oddity for Texas) you have a precinct convention, followed by a county/district convention and then the state convention. These conventions are quite similar to caucuses and liberty delegates can be chosen at each stage. Because of the redistricting mess this year, here in Texas we have already held our county/district conventions and selected our delegates to go the the state convention which will be held starting June 8, following our May 29 primary. We will be fighting to have a majority of the delegates going on to Tampa.

Now, can anyone shed some light on my question. I've been told, I don't know if accurately or whether it may apply to other states, that the Texas delegation does not actually "vote" the first ballot. Based on the primary vote, the head of the Texas delegation will stand and cast our vote proportionately to the primary vote totals. Like I said, I don't know if this is accurate, or common. Any comments?

Unless your state specifically has a rule (and I think TX might have recently put one in place just for us) the delegation chair reports the vote so it is a matter of appointing the delegation chair, if you end up with that strength, to begin with. I also wonder if the binding rules were in place last Oct? When the RNC says they have to have been? I remember TX was fussing with their rules up until well into this year, but don't know if it impacted that part.

 

[jbauer]

I'm not sure it will go down that way though. To "get the message out" we need mass media. I would guess that the vast majority of people voting in the Nov elections will have spent exactly 30 seconds thinking about who they're voting for and it going to be some sort of D vs R debate. Without that 30 second time slot given by the mass media how do you propose we even begin to talk about this?

I think if we can show the voters that they were duped by the MSM and show that the issue was that Ron Paul is not the MEDIA's choice, and therefore the voters were duped, then maybe we will get and even stronger basis of support. But this goes back to the Doug Wead SEO request to get the message out and to get us all saying the same message.

Look Ron Paul did very well in the beginning in the debates, in Iowa, and in Maine; but the MEDIA downplayed his results and shaped the voters opinion - with the ignoring, dismissal at his chances, and unrelenting mocking - to lead everyone away from what their corporate owners felt was a threat. If voters really knew Ron Paul, they would know he very much IS the popular choice.

The dedicated people who have taken the time to learn and know Ron Paul and his policies and positions are playing the GOP delegate game for all the other voters, so they will be able to see that the media has been deceiving them, and Ron Paul really IS the popular choice.

I think once the media type see that their only choice is Paul, they despise Obama enough they will support Paul, begrudgingly.

 

[stuka]

I know in NC our delegates had to sign a form stating they would vote according to the primary results, otherwise they would have to pay $10,000 to the state party. I wonder if the campaign would be able to reimburse them if they voted for Paul?

 

[Thor]

I think if we can show the voters that they were duped by the MSM and show that the issue was that Ron Paul is not the MEDIA's choice, and therefore the voters were duped, then maybe we will get and even stronger basis of support. But this goes back to the Doug Wead SEO request to get the message out and to get us all saying the same message.

Look Ron Paul did very well in the beginning in the debates, in Iowa, and in Maine; but the MEDIA downplayed his results and shaped the voters opinion - with the ignoring, dismissal at his chances, and unrelenting mocking - to lead everyone away from what their corporate owners felt was a threat. If voters really knew Ron Paul, they would know he very much IS the popular choice.

The dedicated people who have taken the time to learn and know Ron Paul and his policies and positions are playing the GOP delegate game for all the other voters, so they will be able to see that the media has been deceiving them, and Ron Paul really IS the popular choice.

I think once the media type see that their only choice is Paul, they despise Obama enough they will support Paul, begrudgingly.

I'm not sure it will go down that way though. To "get the message out" we need mass media. I would guess that the vast majority of people voting in the Nov elections will have spent exactly 30 seconds thinking about who they're voting for and it going to be some sort of D vs R debate. Without that 30 second time slot given by the mass media how do you propose we even begin to talk about this?

Well, the same way I suggested in 2008 to the campaign, and again recently to Doug Wead, might help. It might not be the end all be all, but it might help.

I say we do 1 time per week video chat sessions with Dr Paul (in 2008 it was a video on demand library idea where people could submit questions to be addressed in next weeks episode, now it can be live if we want) where Dr Paul answers questions to allow people to get to know him better, and answer about issues.

YouTube Live, Usteam and others could handle it. Screens take calls, tweets, emails, etc and screen and then push legit ones through for Dr Paul to address.

With the Internet and social media, getting the word out now could be a lot easier than it has ever been. "Bypass the Blackout! Here is your invite."


Making people aware of the fact that the MSM has deceived them.

 

[Bohner]

How many states don't require people to sign affidavits of support to be a national delegate? It seems it's only in those states where Swann's argument holds up.

Not really... Requiring people to sign affidavits of support is essentially the equivalent of enforcing the Unit Rule which the states are not allowed to do.

 

[Revolution9]

I'll take a crack at it: "I wish a greater number of forum participants were committed to proper use of the English language." Or is it "usage?"

Ya' all needs to be gettin' yer jabberin' and a yakkin' insta proper order.

HTH
Rev0

 

[anaconda]

Interesting stuff. A question for everyone - If 90% (or thereabouts) of GOP primary voters did not vote for Paul in the primaries, and Paul somehow manages to win the nomination through the parliamentary process at the RNC, how do you feel the average voter will react? Will they suddenly rally around Paul as the nominee, or will they reject him? Will the RNC support the candidate financially? Will large scale donors who give to the Presidential campaign and the PACS fork over the cash? What about the media types (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Beck, etc) will they help Paul or work to discredit him?

The main stream media will go into the most supreme attack mode we've ever seen. They will make Paul seem like some vile criminal who is using Stalinist tactics and must be severely rebuked at the voting booth.

 

[anaconda]

I know in NC our delegates had to sign a form stating they would vote according to the primary results, otherwise they would have to pay $10,000 to the state party. I wonder if the campaign would be able to reimburse them if they voted for Paul?

The Delegate Penalty Money Bomb?

 

[tbone717]

Not really... Requiring people to sign affidavits of support is essentially the equivalent of enforcing the Unit Rule which the states are not allowed to do.

Actually the unit rule comes from back in the 19th century, when the delegation voted as one unit, i.e. majority rule. The situation in UT from 2008 is a good example. The majority cannot override the votes of the minority and vote as one unit.

So this year for example in VA, 43 delegates are bound to Romney and 3 to Paul based on the results of the primary (there are 3 also unbound "super" delegates, which I believe are pledged to Romney). The 46 delegates that support Romney cannot "force" the 3 Paul delegates to vote for Romney and vote as one unit, because that would violate 38. Similarly, 21 of Maine's delegates are pledged to Paul (Maine's delegates are all unbound). The 21 Paul delegates cannot "force" the 2 Romney and 1 uncommitted delegate to vote for Paul, because that would also violate Rule 38. But in the case of AZ, all 29 delegates are bound to Romney (based on the primary results). Even though, all 29 votes will be cast for Romney, they are not violating the unit rule, because the are not overriding a minority vote, they just happen to be an unopposed majority in that situation.

So essentially, Rule 38 prevents the majority from silencing the voice of the minority. From what I have read this is something that occurred often in the era before there was a primary system, and the RNC has placed Rule 38 in the rules so that the minority voice is not disenfranchised when they have delegates either bound or unbound that are there to cast a ballot for a candidate.

Hope that clarifies it somewhat.

 

[anaconda]

I don't think anyone has answered your question. Taking Texas as an example, even though we are a primary state, following the primary vote (normally, this year was an oddity for Texas) you have a precinct convention, followed by a county/district convention and then the state convention. These conventions are quite similar to caucuses and liberty delegates can be chosen at each stage. Because of the redistricting mess this year, here in Texas we have already held our county/district conventions and selected our delegates to go the the state convention which will be held starting June 8, following our May 29 primary. We will be fighting to have a majority of the delegates going on to Tampa.

Now, can anyone shed some light on my question. I've been told, I don't know if accurately or whether it may apply to other states, that the Texas delegation does not actually "vote" the first ballot. Based on the primary vote, the head of the Texas delegation will stand and cast our vote proportionately to the primary vote totals. Like I said, I don't know if this is accurate, or common. Any comments?

That would be a bummer where some state party shill speaks for all of the delegates on the first ballot.

But I would still like someone who has a good understanding of this to speculate on whether Ron Paul supporters can continue to win the majority of delegates "bound" to Romney at upcoming state conventions where Romney won a "winner-take-all?" Then if they turn out to not be bound then we're sitting pretty if we have the majority of delegates that are "bound" (not bound) to Romney.

 

[moraha]

How the RNC interprets it is different than what are the rules. Depending on how many delegates we have there, we have a better or worse chance. IMHO this discussion is premature to getting the delegates there.

It's premature but a good idea to be prepared....this definitely needs to SOMEHOW get out there though.

 

[MikeStanart]

BEN for Press Secretary of President Ron Paul!

 

[InTradePro]

From Ben's facebook:
...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anWsU93fFsk

http://www.fox19.com/story/18305604/reality-check-why-all-rnc-delegates-are-free-agents-and-unbound

Pretty clear. In the end all delegates can vote how they wish.

 

[azxd]

Ya' all needs to be gettin' yer jabberin' and a yakkin' insta proper order.

HTH
Rev0

WORD Rev ... Word !!!

 

[azxd]

The main stream media will go into the most supreme attack mode we've ever seen. They will make Paul seem like some vile criminal who is using Stalinist tactics and must be severely rebuked at the voting booth.

And they will rue the day.

 

[wgadget]

I know in NC our delegates had to sign a form stating they would vote according to the primary results, otherwise they would have to pay $10,000 to the state party. I wonder if the campaign would be able to reimburse them if they voted for Paul?

Isn't that extortion?

 

[DamianTV]

From Ben's facebook:



I'll paste the link when he posts it!


[update] video is now up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anWsU93fFsk

http://www.fox19.com/story/18305604/reality-check-why-all-rnc-delegates-are-free-agents-and-unbound

This video needs to be on the Front Page! Mods? Admins? Do you agree?

 

[sailingaway]

This video needs to be on the Front Page! Mods? Admins? Do you agree?

All right. I went back and forth on it.