Reality Check: Why all RNC delegates are 'Free Agents' and unbound

you are missing the big picture or you are intentionally avoiding it. show me the rule that states a delegate is bound. is it state code or is it a gop state rule? if it is the latter they have no authority to collect a fine. therefore a delegate is allowed to do the right thing.

Delegate binding is addressed in both state party rules and in the RNC rules (Rule 15)

I haven't commented on whether or not a delegate can sign an affidavit and then go against the terms of that affidavit. If someone wishes to do that then they are free to do so and suffer any penalty there might be. As far as I understand, if a delegate attempts to go against his sworn word, then he/she is replaced by an alternate.
 
No, that's not what I saw (although I had read this before). The whole letter in question is posted on this forum somewhere.

I have not seen it. When I have tried to search google for the text all I come up with is posts from here and some other forums, and that link I just posted. If you can find it then great.
 
Delegate binding is addressed in both state party rules and in the RNC rules (Rule 15)

I haven't commented on whether or not a delegate can sign an affidavit and then go against the terms of that affidavit. If someone wishes to do that then they are free to do so and suffer any penalty there might be. As far as I understand, if a delegate attempts to go against his sworn word, then he/she is replaced by an alternate.

rnc rule 15 nor 16 has anything to do with bound delegates voting their conscience. i have seen state gop rules but again, those arent enforceable. they can replace them with alts... so it is important to have as many alts as possible.

looks like the only way romney and goldman sachs can steal this is if the states have codes on this with criminal penalties. i guess thats what we need to focus on... the RNC argument is laid to rest.
 
rnc rule 15 nor 16 has anything to do with bound delegates voting their conscience. i have seen state gop rules but again, those arent enforceable. they can replace them with alts... so it is important to have as many alts as possible.

looks like the only way romney and goldman sachs can steal this is if the states have codes on this with criminal penalties. i guess thats what we need to focus on... the RNC argument is laid to rest.

By definition a bound delegate does not vote their conscience. They are there are a representative of their state or CD. Their function is to cast a ballot that is representative of the primary vote from their CD or state.

So if we want to see Paul win, we could just win the remaining states, accumulate a number of bound delegates that is close to or equal to Romney's current total and let the unbound delegates decide the nomination. Winning over the voters in 11 states will go very far in establishing Paul as a legitimate challenge to the nomination, and could very well sway many of the unbound delegates to Paul's side.
 
Last edited:
By definition a bound delegate does not vote their conscience. They are there are a representative of their state or CD. Their function is to cast a ballot that is representative of the primary vote from their CD or state.

So if we want to see Paul win, we could just win the remaining states, accumulate a number of bound delegates that is close to or equal to Romney's current total and let the unbound delegates decide the nomination. Winning over the voters in 11 states will go very far in establishing Paul as a legitimate challenge to the nomination, and could very well sway many of the unbound delegates to Paul's side.


the gop along with the goldman sachs (media) has made sure there is no way ron paul will win any of the remaining primaries and you know that. i have researched one state regarding this matter and it is a state law not just a party rule. it is a misdemeanor but has a fine of up to $1,000 or a minimum imprisonment of 1 yr. and they would not count the vote either. (which is odd for the state to claim since they aren't the rnc)
 
the gop along with the goldman sachs (media) has made sure there is no way ron paul will win any of the remaining primaries and you know that.

If I believed that then I would not have donated money, made phone calls and knocked on doors this year. I have worked successfully at getting libertarian-conservatives elected to office before, and I have every reason to believe that the right combination of candidate, campaign and grassroots effort can prevail again. If I thought the system was rigged against us, then there are plenty of other things I would do with my time and money.
 
I have not seen it. When I have tried to search google for the text all I come up with is posts from here and some other forums, and that link I just posted. If you can find it then great.
I searched also, and came up blank. Maybe whoever posted the letter will see this thread and give us the link.
 
If I believed that then I would not have donated money, made phone calls and knocked on doors this year. I have worked successfully at getting libertarian-conservatives elected to office before, and I have every reason to believe that the right combination of candidate, campaign and grassroots effort can prevail again. If I thought the system was rigged against us, then there are plenty of other things I would do with my time and money.


LOL.. which primaries do you think dr paul has a chance to win? seriously.. are you just messing with me?
 
LOL.. which primaries do you think dr paul has a chance to win? seriously.. are you just messing with me?

He has a chance to win every one of them. Is is a good chance? Not really, but in each of those states no one has cast their ballot yet, so he still has a chance.

Are you suggesting that Paul has no chance of winning any of the remaining states? Because if so that would be contrary to the purpose of this forum and would really be counteracting all the work that people are doing. If he cannot win, then it serves no purpose at all for people to spend their time and money trying to convince voters to vote for him.
 
Last edited:
If the establishment keeps shooting themselves in their feet, he has a good chance. Especially if it is finally picked up my MSM.
 
Rule #15

As at least one other has pointed out, RNC rules do permit delegates to be bound in a number of ways. I've copied the rule below. I really do not want to see RP and the movement and all that has been gained at the state level be tarnished by people acting like assholes at the convention. If MR does not have the required number and delegates become unbound on subsequent votes, great by all means RP. But dont drag RP through the mud because you hate the GOP (which we are fast becoming) or MR.


RULE NO. 15
Election, Selection, Allocation, or Binding of
Delegates and Alternate Delegates
(a) Order of Precedence.
Delegates at large and their
alternate delegates and delegates from Congressional
districts and their alternate delegates to the national
convention shall be elected, selected, allocated, or
bound in the following manner:
(1) In accordance with any
applicable Republican Party rules of a state, insofar as
the same are not inconsistent with these rules; or
(2) To the extent not provided for in
the applicable Republican Party rules of a state, in
accordance with any applicable laws of a state, insofar
as the same are not inconsistent with these rules; or
(3) By a combination of the
methods set forth in paragraphs (a)(1) or (a)(2) of this
rule; or
(4) To the extent not provided by
state law or party rules, as set forth in paragraph (d) of
this rule.
(b) Timing.* (Revised language was adopted
by the Republican National Committee on August 6,
2010)
(1) No primary, caucus, or
convention to elect, select, allocate, or bind delegates to
the national convention shall occur prior to the first
Tuesday in March in the year in which a national
convention is held. Except Iowa, New Hampshire,
South Carolina, and Nevada may begin their processes
at any time on or after February 1 in the year in which a
national convention is held and shall not be subject to
the provisions of paragraph (b)(2) of this rule.
(2) Any presidential primary,
caucus, convention, or other meeting held for the
purpose of selecting delegates to the national
convention which occurs prior to the first day of April19 of 41
in the year in which the national convention is held,
shall provide for the allocation of delegates on a
proportional basis.
(3) If the Democratic National
Committee fails to adhere to a presidential primary
schedule with the dates set forth in Rule 15(b)(1) of
these Rules (February 1 and first Tuesday in March),
then Rule 15(b) shall revert to the Rules as adopted by
the 2008 Republican National Convention.
(c) General.
In all elections or selections of delegates or
alternate delegates to the national convention, the
following rules shall apply:
(1) Delegates and alternate
delegates to the national convention may be elected,
selected, allocated, or bound only in one of the
following manners:
(i) by primary election;
(ii) by the Republican
state committee, where specifically provided by state
law;
(iii) by state and
Congressional district conventions;
(iv) by any method
consistent with these rules by which delegates and
alternate delegates were elected, selected, allocated, or
bound to the most recent Republican National
Convention from that state;
(v) by Rule No. 13 (a)(2)
of these rules.
(2) Only persons eligible to vote
who are deemed as a matter of public record to be
Republicans pursuant to state law or, if voters are not
enrolled by party, by Republican Party rules of a state,
shall participate in any primary election held for the
purpose of electing delegates or alternate delegates to
the national convention or in any Republican caucus,
mass meeting, or mass convention held for the purpose
of selecting delegates to the county, district, or state
conventions, and only such legal and qualified voters20 of 41
shall be elected as delegates to county, district, and
state conventions; provided, however, that in addition
to the qualifications provided herein, the applicable
Republican Party rules of a state may prescribe
additional qualifications not inconsistent with law,
which additional qualifications shall be adopted before
October 1 in the year before the year in which the
national convention is to be held and published in at
least one (1) newspaper having a general circulation
throughout the state, such publication to be at least
ninety (90) days before such qualifications become
effective.
(3) No state law shall be observed
that permits any person to participate in a primary
delegate and alternate delegate selection process that
also permits that person at the same primary to
participate in the choosing of nominees of any other
party for other elective office. Delegates and alternate
delegates to the national convention shall in that event
be selected pursuant to state Republican Party rules that
are not inconsistent with The Rules of the Republican
Party; provided, however, that the selection process
established by the state Republican Party rules shall
provide that only persons eligible to vote who are
deemed to be Republicans pursuant to state law or state
Republican Party rules shall participate in such delegate
election or selection process.
(4) In any jurisdiction in which
Republican representation upon the board of judges or
inspectors of elections for primary elections is denied
by law, delegates and alternate delegates shall be
elected as provided in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(4) of this
rule.
(5) In electing or selecting
delegates and alternate delegates to the national
convention, no state law shall be observed which
hinders, abridges, or denies to any citizen of the United
States, eligible under the Constitution of the United
States to hold the office of President of the United
States or Vice President of the United States, the right
or privilege of being a candidate under such state law
for the nomination for President of the United States or
Vice President of the United States or which authorizes
the election or selection of a number of delegates or
alternate delegates from any state to the national
convention different from that fixed in these rules.21 of 41
(6) Alternate delegates shall be
elected to the national convention for each unit of
representation equal in number to the number of
delegates elected therein and shall be chosen in the
same manner and at the same time as the delegates and
under the same rules; provided, however, that if the law
of any state shall prescribe another method of choosing
alternate delegates, they may be chosen in accordance
with the provisions of the law of the state in which the
election occurs, except that no alternates shall be
selected for Republican National Committee members.
(7) Any process authorized or
implemented by a state Republican Party for selecting
delegates and alternate delegates or for binding the
presidential preference of such delegates may use every
means practicable, in the sole discretion of the state
Republican Party, to encourage active military
personnel the opportunity to exercise their right to vote.
(8) Delegates and alternate
delegates at large to the national convention when
serving as delegates and alternate delegates shall be
residents of and duly qualified voters in their respective
states. All delegates and alternate delegates allocated as
delegates and alternate delegates at large shall be
elected at large in the several states; provided, however,
that such allocation and method of election may be
varied in any state to the extent, and only to the extent,
necessary to avoid conflict with state law applicable to
the selection of national convention delegates if such
varying allocation and method of election were those
pursuant to which delegates at large and alternate
delegates at large were elected to the 1988 Republican
National Convention from that state.
(9) Delegates and alternate
delegates to the national convention representing
Congressional districts shall be residents of and
qualified voters in said districts respectively when
elected and when serving as delegates and alternate
delegates. There shall be three (3) delegates and three
(3) alternate delegates allocated to represent each
Congressional district of the several states, who shall be
elected by each such Congressional district; provided,
however, that such number of delegates and alternate
delegates allocated to represent, and elected by, any
Congressional district of a state may be reduced or
increased to the extent, and only to the extent,
necessary to avoid conflict with state law applicable to
the selection of national convention delegates if such22 of 41
varying allocation was that pursuant to which district
delegates and alternate district delegates were elected to
the 1988 Republican National Convention from the
state.
(10) No delegate or alternate
delegate, or candidate for delegate or alternate delegate,
to the national convention shall be required to pay an
assessment or fee in excess of that provided by the law
of the state in which his or her election or selection
occurs as a condition of standing for election or serving
as a delegate or alternate delegate to the national
convention.
(11) There shall be no automatic
delegates to the national convention who serve by
virtue of party position or elective office, except as
provided for in Rule No. 13 (a)(2).
(12) No delegates or alternate
delegates shall be elected, selected, allocated, or bound
pursuant to any Republican Party rule of a state or state
law which materially changes the manner of electing,
selecting, allocating, or binding delegates or alternate
delegates or the date upon which such state Republican
Party holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention,
or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential
candidate and/or electing, selecting, allocating, or
binding delegates to the national convention if such
changes were adopted or made effective after October 1
of the year before the year in which the national
convention is to be held. Where it is not possible for a
state Republican Party to certify the manner and the
date upon which it holds a presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention in effect in that state on the date and in the
manner provided in paragraph (e) of this rule, the
process for holding the presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention shall be conducted in the same manner and
held upon the same date as was used for the
immediately preceding national convention. If it is not
possible to hold a presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention upon the same date as was used for the23 of 41
immediately preceding national convention, then
delegates or alternate delegates shall be elected or
selected by Congressional district or state conventions
pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule.
(d) Conventions.
Wherever state law permits or the Republican
Party rules of a state require the election of delegates
and alternate delegates by convention or there is no
applicable state law or Republican Party rule, delegates
and alternate delegates to the national convention shall
be elected by Congressional district or state
conventions pursuant to the following rules:
(1) Congressional district or state
conventions shall be called by the Republican state
committee.
(2) Delegates to Congressional
district conventions may be elected in precinct
caucuses, mass meetings, mass conventions, or county
conventions in which only eligible voters in such
precinct, county, or district, as the case may be, shall
vote.
(3) Notices of the call for any such
caucus, meeting, or convention shall be published in a
newspaper or newspapers of general circulation in the
county, district, or state, as the case may be, not less
than fifteen (l5) days prior to the date of such caucus,
meeting, or convention.
(4) No delegates shall be deemed
eligible to participate in any Congressional district or
state convention the purpose of which is to elect or
select delegates to the national convention who are
elected or selected prior to the date of the issuance of
the call of such national convention.
(5) Congressional district
conventions shall be composed of delegates who are
persons eligible to vote and who are deemed to be
Republicans pursuant to state law or party rules. State
conventions shall be composed of delegates who are
persons eligible to vote and who are deemed to be
Republicans pursuant to state law or party rules in the
respective districts which they represent in said state
conventions. Such delegates shall be apportioned by the
state Republican Party among counties, parishes, andcities of the state or district having regard to the
Republican vote or the population therein.
(6) There shall be no proxies at any
district or state convention (which shall not include
meetings of a Republican state committee) held for the
purpose of electing or selecting delegates to the national
convention. If alternate delegates to such selection
convention are elected or selected, the alternate
delegate and no other shall vote in the absence of the
delegate.
(e) Certification and filing by state
committees.
(1) On or before October 1 of the
year before the year in which the national convention is
to be held, each Republican state committee shall adopt
rules, procedures, policies, and instructive materials
(prepared pursuant to Rule No. 14(a)) governing the
election, selection, allocation, or binding of delegates
and alternate delegates to the national convention to
convene during the following year and shall certify and
file with the secretary of the Republican National
Committee true copies of the same and of all statutes
governing the election, selection, allocation, or binding
of such delegates and alternate delegates.
(2) The Republican National
Committee may grant a waiver to a state Republican
Party from certain provisions of this rule where it is not
possible for a state Republican Party to comply with the
October 1 deadline delineated in paragraph (e)(1) of
this rule and not possible for a state Republican Party to
hold its presidential primary, caucus, convention, or
meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential
candidate and/or electing, selecting, allocating, or
binding delegates to the national convention as was
used for the immediately preceding national convention
or to elect, select, allocate, or bind delegates or alternate
delegates by Congressional district or state conventions
pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule, and the
Republican National Committee determines that
granting such waiver is in the best interests of the
Republican Party.
 
Ben Swann's reply to a blogger he posted on facebook:
"Thanks for reaching out. I think you make some very strong points including the issue of how this would affect those who have won state leadership positions. They may not want to compromise the effectiveness of reshaping the party in the long-term for a short term vote that may not translate into a nomination.

Keep in mind, those issues would have to be strategized by the campaign and their delegates as they get closer to the National Convention based upon how many delegates Congressman Paul will have and whether they can be effective in taking the nomination. My role is not to strategize for any campaign, rather to shed light on the system. What is done with that information is not for me to decide. I am going to post my response to you as well as the two main facts that you feel still need to be expressed. From your first point, it is clear that I am correct on the issue of delegates not being bound.

' # 1 : While the RNC does not recognize binding in any way of delegates at the RNC convention the States do recognize their rules and there could be consequences should a delegate go against party rules at the RNC convention.

# 2 : It is important that all delegates read their district/county AND state bylaws pertaining to the potential penalty that could be ensued if any should they break party rules. In some cases there is no penalty, in other cases the penalty could be fines of monetary consequence and worse being stripped of their delegate status for life. Now some will choose to accept the consequences while others may not be so willing or perhaps not be aware there is a consequence.'

The conversations over the binding of delegates and the role delegates will play in the Republican National Convention in Tampa are very important. I hope that we can continue to have a respectful and open discussion

B
 
The Delegate Penalty Money Bomb?

I'm one of the organizers for the Paul Festival. I have a litigation attorney working with us who is asking where specifically these rules can be found - regarding assessment of penalties. The money raised from our event will be going towards promoting Dr. Paul anyway, and I'd like to have part of that go towards paying any fines incurred by delegates who get fined (if it becomes necessary). But we don't want to get hit with bribery charges and need to make absolute certain that we are okay to do this. Please help us find the truth and we will do everything within our means to help delegates vote according to their conscience. You can refer to my latest post on this below. I can be reached at [email protected]


http://www.paulfestival.org/liberty-blogs-2/187-the-things-that-are-impossible-with-people-are-possible-with-god-luke-18-27
 
Ben did not actually answer anything though, he just reiterated his previous erroneous report and fails to explain how to get around rule #15. I think everyone agrees rule 38 does not apply as no states have a delegate process that would invoke a unit rule.
 
Does anybody know where I can find the ORIGINAL letter that this excerpt is taken from?


Jennifer Sheehan, Legal Council for the RNC, wrote a letter to Nancy Lord, Utah National Committee-Woman, asserting:

“The RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever they choose, and the national convention allows delegates to vote for the individual of their choice, regardless of whether the person’s name is officially placed into nomination or not.”
 
Back
Top